The elusive "other" cell phone - the Blackjack - REVISITED

[shadow of my mind]

As long as the phones are compatible the SIM card can go into the phone and now that phones activity is billed through your account with the phone number. All billing is through the phone number. The older cell phones did not have SIM cards and the phone number was pre-programmed into the actual physical phone. If you wanted a new phone you had to take the actual phone to the store and they had to redo the new phone with your current number. My Norkia phone back in 1995 was like this. By 2000 my new phone had a SIM card and when I added two new phones to my plan in 2004 I took the new phones and used my old SIM card in them to transfer all of my numbers to the new phone and then cleared the old SIM card of information and placed them back in the old phones and sent them to my son and his wife to use while they where moving out of military housing so they could keep in touch until they caught the flight back home. The phone number and subsequent billing is attached to the SIM card not the physical phone itself. Personal at the stores tell you need to come in and inform them if you are getting a new phone but that is to get you in the store and sell you a phone. You can 'borrow' anyone's SIM card (as long as works with your phone) and any calls you make on it show up on that person's phone bill that the SIM card is registered with.

It is like you regular landline phone. You can move across the country with it, plug it into the wall and that phone is now connected to your number at that new location. The phone does not have a number, the line in your wall is connected to number the phone company has given it. Of course now you can take you cell phone number with you wherever you go. Landline numbers are portable only within a small geographical area and can be kept even if changing carries.

SIM Card – Short for Subscriber Identity Module. SIM cards are small removable smart cards that are used in many cell phones. SIM cards are used to store data like a customer’s mobile phone number and address book contact information.
SIM cards allow users to easily transport their phone numbers and contacts to new phones simply by removing the card from the old phone and inserting it in the new one.
Not all phones have SIM cards and some that have them do not allow users to remove them.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cellular-Phones-2768/2008/1/Sim-Card-Transferability.htm
Found this on a site asking a similar question. Portion of the answer

Your Sprint Blackberry 8830 does not use a SIM card in the US. If your Blackberry was an AT&T or T-Mobile one, then you could remove the SIM and put it in any AT&T branded or T-Mobile branded device (based on who your provider was) and it would work without issue. Hope this helps and please let me know if you need any additional information.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cellular-Phones-2768/2008/1/Sim-Card-Transferability.htm

This site has common abbreviations and explanations of what it means.
http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/Page/ad077ec2-ee02-4a84-852d-e938dd75b18a.aspx

 

[TxRose]

So this basically proves my point. Let's say she told the truth for once and she did in fact have a BJ that she switched sim cards back and forth in. One of these mystery numbers stored on the BJ was supposed to be for Zanny. If you believe any of her story, she was in constant contact with Zanny over the last two years or so - since she would obviously be talking to her about picking up and dropping off Caylee. If she made or received calls from these "mystery" numbers they would still show up on that same phone bill. They do not. To me - that is the most important fact. In my opinion, there are no numbers stored on some other phone...which also leads me to believe there is no other phone. She made the whole story up because she knew they would not find the numbers stored on the Nokia. IMHO.

 

[okiedokietoo]

OKIE - your coming to the point that was posted earlier. Working on a theory over in Amy's car thread and the 6/19 thread that Casey did a xfer of the body & evidence (clothes, etc.) on 6/19.

Then...bobo points out the BJ Jackie # in kc cell
Then...I check the logs and see only 2 calls ever to the phone on 6/20

Speculation that the blackjack was in the clothes that were disposed 6/19 and Casey realized what may've happened 6/20 and started trying to find it. So, yes, it would be sooooooo ironic if that 6 second call pinged the BJ Jackie phone whose account info could be used to locate the evidence. Note: calls rolling through to vmail on Casey's phone don't ping a location hence would prolly be the same for the blackjack IF it did exist and it all went down like this...thats a big IF...but a fun one to enjoy if nothing else

Still...there are plenty of counterpoints to this theory being made too. All good ones.

Thanks, will check out "Amys Car" thread. Good to know that if I am going mad I am not alone. LOL

 

[jandkmom]

As long as the phones are compatible the SIM card can go into the phone and now that phones activity is billed through your account with the phone number. All billing is through the phone number. The older cell phones did not have SIM cards and the phone number was pre-programmed into the actual physical phone. If you wanted a new phone you had to take the actual phone to the store and they had to redo the new phone with your current number. My Norkia phone back in 1995 was like this. By 2000 my new phone had a SIM card and when I added two new phones to my plan in 2004 I took the new phones and used my old SIM card in them to transfer all of my numbers to the new phone and then cleared the old SIM card of information and placed them back in the old phones and sent them to my son and his wife to use while they where moving out of military housing so they could keep in touch until they caught the flight back home. The phone number and subsequent billing is attached to the SIM card not the physical phone itself. Personal at the stores tell you need to come in and inform them if you are getting a new phone but that is to get you in the store and sell you a phone. You can 'borrow' anyone's SIM card (as long as works with your phone) and any calls you make on it show up on that person's phone bill that the SIM card is registered with.

It is like you regular landline phone. You can move across the country with it, plug it into the wall and that phone is now connected to your number at that new location. The phone does not have a number, the line in your wall is connected to number the phone company has given it. Of course now you can take you cell phone number with you wherever you go. Landline numbers are portable only within a small geographical area and can be kept even if changing carries.

SIM Card – Short for Subscriber Identity Module. SIM cards are small removable smart cards that are used in many cell phones. SIM cards are used to store data like a customer’s mobile phone number and address book contact information.
SIM cards allow users to easily transport their phone numbers and contacts to new phones simply by removing the card from the old phone and inserting it in the new one.
Not all phones have SIM cards and some that have them do not allow users to remove them.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cellular-Phones-2768/2008/1/Sim-Card-Transferability.htm
Found this on a site asking a similar question. Portion of the answer

Your Sprint Blackberry 8830 does not use a SIM card in the US. If your Blackberry was an AT&T or T-Mobile one, then you could remove the SIM and put it in any AT&T branded or T-Mobile branded device (based on who your provider was) and it would work without issue. Hope this helps and please let me know if you need any additional information.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Cellular-Phones-2768/2008/1/Sim-Card-Transferability.htm

This site has common abbreviations and explanations of what it means.
http://www.kuluttajavirasto.fi/Page/ad077ec2-ee02-4a84-852d-e938dd75b18a.aspx

Thanks...all of that makes very good sense. I just got my phone in February and it does not have a SIM card - Alltel.

So if I understand this correctly. If she bought the new phone it would be a seperate number if she didn't move her old SIM card to her new phone, and would have been a new activation. For her to activate a new phone, she would have had to produce ID/deposit (for surely she has none since she doesn't own anything). If she used her own id, then a credit check could see who has checked her credit to give her a phone. If she used someone elses credit information (not unlikely), then the called id from that phone would likely show up under someone else's name when she called. If she called someone and said she was calling from her new Blackjack, there would be a record on their phone of the call and who and where the call came from. Is all of that correct?

 

[KellioPSL]

I dont think she had another phone, she barely put the one she did have down. She was always texting and calling. She had money issues being that she had no job. She was stealing to pay the enormous cell phone bills for the phone that we know she had. One month $354.00, another month $574.00, she couldnt have afforded another phone.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Something just occured to me and I had to share it with all of you. I once had a 'friend' who was a party girl...loved going out to bars. She had a spare cell phone that she would leave in the hotel room with her 6 year old step son while she went out (hoeing?). We had a disagreement about it which caused estrangement in our friendship. Anything could have happened to him and it freaked me out when I found out she was doing this. All he had to do was press one number on speed dial to reach her. I wonder if KC was perhaps using the BJ for this purpose, in addition to her 'business' contacts. That way she could leave the business phone with Caylee where ever she was stashing her and Caylee could press one button and reach KC on her regular phone if she awoke before the chloroform wore off. (wouldn't want that phone with you and risk calls from other 'johns' if she was escorting)

Ok, have at it. People do crazy when they're 'touched' in the first place and desparate for money, drugs, etc.

 

[Bobo]

I've been off doing some reading to get some things clear in my head.

Wanted to alert all on this thread that JWG has uncovered the tip of some new info regarding phone numbers KC called. Verrrry interesting and worth a look at the sticky thread All Casey Cell Phone Logs & Pings Part 3 -- Post#578
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73373&page=24

Also see the Where Is Amy's Totaled Car? which is now a sticky thread (that has Other Time Line & Ping Discussion appended to the title) -- Post #243
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3028820

Anyway, both these threads are worth reading IMO -- sure hope we are getting closer to some answers to some of out questions. Unfortunately, reality says that the more we find out, the more apparent it is that there are things we don't know yet. All I can say is that my old brain is getting a real workout! LOL :treadmill:

 

[jandkmom]

I've been off doing some reading to get some things clear in my head.

Wanted to alert all on this thread that JWG has uncovered the tip of some new info regarding phone numbers KC called. Verrrry interesting and worth a look at the sticky thread All Casey Cell Phone Logs & Pings Part 3 -- Post#578
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73373&page=24

Also see the Where Is Amy's Totaled Car? which is now a sticky thread (that has Other Time Line & Ping Discussion appended to the title) -- Post #243
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3028820

Anyway, both these threads are worth reading IMO -- sure hope we are getting closer to some answers to some of out questions. Unfortunately, reality says that the more we find out, the more apparent it is that there are things we don't know yet. All I can say is that my old brain is getting a real workout! LOL :treadmill:

I'm re-reading and listening also... and now I am getting more confused. In KC's interview where she discusses the cell phones, she said she got them both through Universal. If she had the Nokia first, with the nanny's number in it, then got the Black Jack, and only had a few numbers in it (the nanny's, JH, etc...), but the detectives have both sim cards, if the BJ is only a couple of months old, wouldn't the nanny's number be in the old sim card also, because Caylee had been missing a month, and if she dropped her off on June 15th, and had repeatedly called the nanny to find out where they were, then what number was she supposedly calling. If GA said KC left with Caylee on June 15th, then according to KC she would have already lost the Black Jack phone. Oh my goodness I am rambling...too much info. Have I got KC's timeline confused or is her theory just really not possible of having two phones and not having the nanny's numbers on both phones?

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm re-reading and listening also... and now I am getting more confused. In KC's interview where she discusses the cell phones, she said she got them both through Universal. If she had the Nokia first, with the nanny's number in it, then got the Black Jack, and only had a few numbers in it (the nanny's, JH, etc...), but the detectives have both sim cards, if the BJ is only a couple of months old, wouldn't the nanny's number be in the old sim card also, because Caylee had been missing a month, and if she dropped her off on June 15th, and had repeatedly called the nanny to find out where they were, then what number was she supposedly calling. If GA said KC left with Caylee on June 15th, then according to KC she would have already lost the Black Jack phone. Oh my goodness I am rambling...too much info. Have I got KC's timeline confused or is her theory just really not possible of having two phones and not having the nanny's numbers on both phones?

Hi, J&Kmom.

My advice (which is worth exactly what you paid for it :bang is to assume that everything Casey says is largely with the intent to deceive, and therefore shouldn't be taken literally.

IMHO, however, she does sprinkle some pieces of information from reality into her deceit. Without getting long-winded...it helps her make the stories more believable to anyone not willing to go more than one-question deep. While the sprinkled info is most-often useless, it is worth examining to see if it there's any sprinkled truth revealed that will help. It seems many attempt to use a 90%/10% truth/deceit ratio to try to understand Casey's stories. I'd offer its more worthwhile to use a 2%/98% truth/deceit figure...and certainly less frustrating

In this case, IMHO - and to address waltzing matilda's comment - for the entire period 6/1 - 7/16, there are only two texts from Casey's nokia to the "BJ Jacke" (on 6/20), and zero contacts from "BJ Jacke" to Casey's nokia.

Nanny didn't exist. Blackjack did, IMHO, and was not used, owing to battery not keeping up w/ Casey's voracious use.

...still IMHO, and a work-in-progress theory, when Casey was shoving her belongs into the trunk of the Pontiac from G&C's, as she effectively moved out 6/17, the blackjack went in there. Later, the blackjack was hidden/entrapped in some clothes that had become contaminated with decomp fluid and were disposed of, or it was inadvertently, similarly left in a duffle bag that may've been used to stow the body before it was transferred into the trashbag when xfer'd from Amy's car back into the Pontiac @ Tony's apt. 6/20 ~1:30PM. Eventually, the clothing, duffle, etc. were stuffed in a bag separate from the body and disposed...I think we'll find the blackjack in that bag someday.

 

[worriedmom]

You know, it looks to me like those two calls to BJ Jacke were text messages, not calls. It wouldn't make sense that Casey was texting herself to find the phone. What evidence do we have that they were calls, not text messages?

I think its an interesting theory -- just playing devil's advocate and pushing to find all the facts . . .

 

[JWG]

You know, it looks to me like those two calls to BJ Jacke were text messages, not calls. It wouldn't make sense that Casey was texting herself to find the phone. What evidence do we have that they were calls, not text messages?

I think its an interesting theory -- just playing devil's advocate and pushing to find all the facts . . .

You're correct, they are text messages.

Perhaps the phone was programmed to signal some sort of noticeable alert when it received a text? A stretch, I know.

 

[KellioPSL]

I think that kc knew she made a BIG mistake when she told her mom, and then the 911 operator, and then le that kc had talked to caylee on the previous day at noon, and the only way she could come up with to explain why her phone didnt reflect this call on the cuff, was the sim card switching black jack owning story (another example of her not being too smart, all she had to say was zanni bought me a throw away phone at the corner convenience store and keeps it loaded with minutes for me with those little minute cards you can buy everywhere.) If this other phone exsists wouldnt there be proof, with text and calls made to other people from it ? I just dont know how she could have possibly paid for it she was stealing from gram and gramps to pay the nokia bill.

 

[BondJamesBond]

You know, it looks to me like those two calls to BJ Jacke were text messages, not calls. It wouldn't make sense that Casey was texting herself to find the phone. What evidence do we have that they were calls, not text messages?

I think its an interesting theory -- just playing devil's advocate and pushing to find all the facts . . .

...and in those 4 sentences worriedmom, you give me a a tinee-tiny, little glimmer of hope.

I got sloppy. These were texts, not calls. IF these were, indeed, to the blackjack, although it is highly unlikely it would (a) be turned on, and (b) have enough charge to receive them...there would be pings on its location.

 

[BondJamesBond]

You're correct, they are text messages.

Perhaps the phone was programmed to signal some sort of noticeable alert when it received a text? A stretch, I know.

...dunno about blackjack's, but, its not uncommon for cell phones to have an audible upon receipt of a txt msg. I set mine to vibrate

 

[diz39]

You're correct, they are text messages.

Perhaps the phone was programmed to signal some sort of noticeable alert when it received a text? A stretch, I know.

Not a stretch. My phone has an alert when I get a text: a chirp and vibrate, though I can set it to sound however I want.

 

[Jaylergirl]

In this case, IMHO - and to address waltzing matilda's comment - for the entire period 6/1 - 7/16, there are only two calls from Casey's nokia to the "BJ Jacke" (on 6/20), and zero calls from "BJ Jacke" to Casey's nokia.

{Snipped for space by me}

But if you notice, at the same time that she texts "BJ Jacke" there is a bunch of "double" texts all in a row to 11 people, starting at 11:38 am on 6/20 and ending at 11:39 am. I have compared all the "double" texts to her contact list in sim and it appears to be a bunch of random people. From, MC (guy she texted to view Crane's Landing apt) to CH's girlfriend to one of the guys at the Tattoo Place. I'm wondering if she was sending out a mass text that day, since it was a Friday and she seemed to be "recruiting" people to go up to Fusion.

 

[eg@gm]

I think that kc knew she made a BIG mistake when she told her mom, and then the 911 operator, and then le that kc had talked to caylee on the previous day at noon, and the only way she could come up with to explain why her phone didnt reflect this call on the cuff, was the sim card switching black jack owning story (another example of her not being too smart, all she had to say was zanni bought me a throw away phone at the corner convenience store and keeps it loaded with minutes for me with those little minute cards you can buy everywhere.) If this other phone exsists wouldnt there be proof, with text and calls made to other people from it ? I just dont know how she could have possibly paid for it she was stealing from gram and gramps to pay the nokia bill.

Yeah, I think the only reason she said that she talked to Caylee that same day was to kind of diffuse the situation. To make herself not look as bad for not reporting Caylee missing sooner. Like, "See, I'm a caring mom. I knew my daughter had been okay this whole time. This is why I didn't run to the police."

 

[eg@gm]

Also, if she had the blackjack number programmed in her phone, and she sent the fusion texts to everyone in her contacts, the black jack would have got the text, too.

 

[KellioPSL]

Also, if she had the blackjack number programmed in her phone, and she sent the fusion texts to everyone in her contacts, the black jack would have got the text, too.

and to go even one step further, when she got the nokia up tp 354 or 574 (her phone bill) she would have just picked up the bj and started using it. And she seemed to think her nokia was not such a prestigious phone as a bj would be, (when talking with le its a cheap crummy phone) paraphrasing(to lazy to go look up actual transcript sorry shoot me)if she had a bj she would have been flashing everywhere, ya know ?

(bj refers to black jack phone) dont want to accidently offend anyone

 

[Skully]

I am leaning to no BJ phone. I think she may have had one but the battery issues got on her nerves, and she stopped using it and just got rid of it. I think the story was to justify why there are on Nanny calls, no Nanny phone numbers. She weaves stories to cover her butt. She may have moved sim cards in the beginning, but it was too much trouble and she remembered it and used it as a way to explain no Nanny no. JMO She is not that smart or complicated, she just had 31 days on us.