The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[WINDSOR]

Peter,

I am not assuming the SK operates exclusively out of Long Island, as some of the women were last seen elswhere.

I believe JB said that no sex took place.

Is it usual or customary for clients to contract drivers? Did JB contract MP to drive or did he contract for MP to bring an escort? If the contract was with MP why did SG want her money. Was MP paid by JB and when?


I can accept the fact that the SK is or could be a variant of a symbolic stalker, and not fitting the template perfectly. As well Craigslist has pictures, the stalker could have 'seen' the women there first.

I did not imply that the SK was going to do anything at JB's home. Only after SG panicked did he have to act.

The problem with following the SK's so-called logic is that he can leave false clues/evidence and likely will.

The main reason that I believe the SK acted differently with SG and the GB4 is that with the GB4 he was in total control, with SG he had a panic situation spinning out of control.

The point that connects the GB4 and SG is the time the bodies were held/kept before discovery. If SG was not killed by the SK of the GB4, why was not the body found right away? ( oh I forgot she drowned and was underwater for months, and then was found on the surface, yeah right!)
Most traditional killers do not worry about body disposal.

I admit my theory and assumptions have some holes, but the 'previous encounter theory' that I am suggesting I believe is worth some further consideration by LE.

Thanks

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter,

I am not assuming the SK operates exclusively out of Long Island, as some of the women were last seen elswhere.

So do I, but I got a lot of fire for that on this board already. So, well, time will tell

I believe JB said that no sex took place.

Maybe I worded it misunderstandable:
I entirely believe he said that, I only don't believe it is the truth. And if it is the truth, it didn't happen certainly not because he had no intention to have sex with her.

Is it usual or customary for clients to contract drivers? Did JB contract MP to drive or did he contract for MP to bring an escort? If the contract was with MP why did SG want her money. Was MP paid by JB and when?

I have to pass on that due to lack of experience with booking prostitutes ...
On the other point, all I can find is, that Pak was JB's man in some articles, but in other articles, he had driven SG also on other occasions. So this is maybe worth a deeper look.

I can accept the fact that the SK is or could be a variant of a symbolic stalker, and not fitting the template perfectly. As well Craigslist has pictures, the stalker could have 'seen' the women there first.

My problem is, for most stalkers it's not enough to see a picture. They need to see them live and in color. However, there is not much really impossible in this business.

I did not imply that the SK was going to do anything at JB's home. Only after SG panicked did he have to act.

Which meant, he would have brought in a situation his paranoia would have urged him to avoid in the first place. As I said, nothing is impossible, but I would like to see a good theory then, why he came in that situation in the first place.

The problem with following the SK's so-called logic is that he can leave false clues/evidence and likely will.

He will try at some point. In fact, I am pretty surprised already, that he didn't try. He is probably more street smart than really intelligent and of medium degree of organization.
On an unrelated sidenote: Do you know, that all SKs worldwide caught in the last 200 years were either caught by accident, by turning themselves in or because someone followed their logic? But then, the number of SKs that got away because nobody did or not consequent enough is probably higher than the number caught alltogether.

The main reason that I believe the SK acted differently with SG and the GB4 is that with the GB4 he was in total control, with SG he had a panic situation spinning out of control.

I would agree in so far, that he wouldn't have brought her to his little trophy garden. But I disagree, when it comes to be stupid enough to drop her purse in the vicinity of the body. There was no way, he could guess, LE would need a year to look in the right place for the body in the first place. He had to assume, someone would look a lot earlier and that opened the possibility of left behind forensic evidence.

The point that connects the GB4 and SG is the time the bodies were held/kept before discovery. If SG was not killed by the SK of the GB4, why was not the body found right away? ( oh I forgot she drowned and was underwater for months, and then was found on the surface, yeah right!)
Most traditional killers do not worry about body disposal.

In fact, most SKs worry a lot about body disposal and so do single act murders. Only the latter do it with less experience. And while I can believe, someone fainting out from a drug condition can even drown in a puddle, I don't believe, SG was really under water. This is swamp land, not much deep water there in the first place. But a lot of reed. So probably, the police was just sloppy during the searches.
The time connection would only exist, if the bodies of the GB4 were held indoors for a long time. But, as we know from the Sowell case for example, this causes some stench all about the neighborhood. And nobody around there has a sausage plant nearby to blame. But if the killer would have used any form of preservation measure or the opposite (for example lime), it would have been discovered through the examination of the bodies. So no reason to assume, the bodies were held/kept for years in some instances. What little LE gave us in forensics, points to the opposite.

I admit my theory and assumptions have some holes, but the 'previous encounter theory' that I am suggesting I believe is worth some further consideration by LE.

Get me right here: I try to grind out the flaws and keep the parts that appear logically acceptable. And, like you, I think about a kind of 'previous encounter' in the GB4 cases, only it appears unlikely to me, we talk here about JB or anybody from Oak Beach. I assumed already earlier a hunting ground probably in NYC, somewhere between Hell's Kitchen and the bus terminal or even in the Bronx. That hasn't to be a bilateral encounter, often just seeing is enough for stalker types.

 

[WINDSOR]

Peter,

Good points;

Most stalkers want to see the victim, that is the benefit of the previous encounter/visit(s)

Regarding body storage: For example if the SK had a Kenmore 24 cubic foot chest freezer, he could keep up to 10 small bodies in it, no odor, no stench. Can LE forensics tell if a body has been frozen?

Why was the SK at JB's home in the first place? SK's have freinds and neighbours that they associate with on some level. JB might have innocently invited the SK over for a night of 'fun' with an escort. Or if JB is the SK he wanted to get to know her.

I would like to know who was at JB's home that night, and where and what each individual was doing until LE arrived in the morning. Did someone leave and not return when SG ran out the final time?

The real problem for me is why PCH called SG's mother and tried to explain where SG was? Does not make sense at all. A upright citizen and ethical doctor would not do that, unless he was forced or was trying to protect someone. By doing so he brought a lot of attention onto himself. Unless he really had SG and did not want LE looking for her.

Sad point you make about the fact LE rarely catches the SK by themselves. Hopefully this site will spook the SK into a mistake, and he will be caught soon.

Thanks

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter,

Good points;

Most stalkers want to see the victim, that is the benefit of the previous encounter/visit(s)

So we're on the same page here, we are only not sure, who else is on that page.

Regarding body storage: For example if the SK had a Kenmore 24 cubic foot chest freezer, he could keep up to 10 small bodies in it, no odor, no stench. Can LE forensics tell if a body has been frozen?

Technically yes, but after all I have seen already in ME reports around the world, the question appears rather, did they look for it. But if a body is frozen that long time, decomposition wouldn't be as far progressed as it was, so this would be a good first indicator. A body killed lets say two years ago and then frozen for one and a half looks from the decomposition rather like a body killed six month ago. So someone would have noticed that ... I hope.

Why was the SK at JB's home in the first place? SK's have freinds and neighbours that they associate with on some level. JB might have innocently invited the SK over for a night of 'fun' with an escort. Or if JB is the SK he wanted to get to know her.

SKs have friends and neighbors and, let me add this, sometimes those friendships are lifelong as Ted Bundy and Ann Rule proved in a way. But especially then, they do a lot not to involve accidentally those friends. Friendships with psychopaths (not necessarily sociopaths) are based on the usefulness of the friends rather than real friendship, but since psychopaths are good at pretending and manipulating, people rarely know. Albright has still friends, who think, LE got everything wrong and the man is such a nice guy and never would ... well, you know the rest. However, typically, no higher organized psychopath (means above a very low level of organization) psychopaths kills in his own backyard and personal environment. First, they love to have their personal surroundings without change, second, they are often too smart to make such a mistake. So one thing, I would bet on, no psychopath would kill or even start his ritual in a friend's house - unless of course, if the friend is the intended victim.
Maureen Brainard-Barnes made a phone call from the Port Authority bus terminal, that her money was stolen and she vented steam about all she wanted was coming home. To me, this still indicates, she was done with the last trick of the night and was already headed out of NYC. Ergo, she wasn't on LI anymore and it is unlikely, she went to any house there after that phone call.
Another interesting details is, that one of the calls made from Melissa Barthelmy's phone by the killer, was pinged also in the area of the very same bus terminal. So the tricky point here is, there are more places linked to LISK, not only JB's house and there is not much of a connection between JB and the bus terminal or the other victims.

I would like to know who was at JB's home that night, and where and what each individual was doing until LE arrived in the morning. Did someone leave and not return when SG ran out the final time?

The drifter, as far as I understand. He was only later identified. But at least, I never heard, forensics turned anything up that would contradict JB's statement, it was only he and the drifter and SG in the house (Pak was in the SUV playing something on his cell phone).

The real problem for me is why PCH called SG's mother and tried to explain where SG was? Does not make sense at all. A upright citizen and ethical doctor would not do that, unless he was forced or was trying to protect
someone. By doing so he brought a lot of attention onto himself. Unless he really had SG and did not want LE looking for her.

Or he was just stupid and in panic mode and spilled out the first lie because it seemed at the time a good idea to win time. That would of course indicate he learned only later, SG was dead. But at that time, he had already said too many wrong things to go entirely back.

Sad point you make about the fact LE rarely catches the SK by themselves. Hopefully this site will spook the SK into a mistake, and he will be caught soon.

Statistically, the Australians and Italians became pretty good over the last decades. But then, they use, what Americans have figure out, behavioral analysis, instead of generally dismissing it or push it back on the low level formalized approach.

 

[Sillybilly]

... The drifter, as far as I understand. He was only later identified. But at least, I never heard, forensics turned anything up that would contradict JB's statement, it was only he and the drifter and SG in the house (Pak was in the SUV playing something on his cell phone).

Or he was just stupid and in panic mode and spilled out the first lie because it seemed at the time a good idea to win time. That would of course indicate he learned only later, SG was dead. But at that time, he had already said too many wrong things to go entirely back ...

Just a snippet here, but one of GC's first statements was that MP said (paraphrased from memory) "one of the young girls got upset and left".

There's also JB's statement that "the truth will come out". Seems like he knows something about somebody that he had contact with that night. One doesn't usually "know" that about a girl who ended up the victim of an accidental drowning.


I agtree that CPH was trying to buy time to think up a better story. He also said that SG left with her driver that morning. Maybe he/they(?) were planning to say that MP dropped her off someplace later (although, to our knowledge, MP hasn't said that, so that kinda leaves CPH sticking out like a sore thumb with that big blooper).

 

[SmoothOperator]

I am continually in awe of the several of you who are so very dedicated to these women who became victims of an individual now known as the "LISK".. You all continue to sleuth, dig, and find the answers that so many are desperately in search of to attempt to make sense of what most of us will never even be able to truly comprehend in the depraved mind at work here.. I continue to follow along and find that you all cover so much(and truly with so very few of you in comparison to other national cases here at WS).. And in that superb job you all do in covering so much ground I rarely find that I'd have anything to add to what you all have thus far accomplished and therefor find myself following quietly along in lurkdom..

I, too have similar feelings as to what some of you have expressed like Mountain_Kat did in saying she couldn't move on from "these girls" even if she wanted to.. Your dedication to these victims is obvious, MK and these victims I'm certain are cheering on in spirit ALL OF THOSE who are fighting for justice for "these girls".. Ya see that's what they are, "these girls".. They are girls, women, ladies even.. No different than many of you and I in that they are/were not only human beings, God's children, *but as well as they were mothers and daughters.. Sisters and aunts.. Granddaughters and cousins.. Just like many of you and I they were someone's family who loved them very much and whose lives have been forever altered by this evil that each of them crossed paths with.. The evil that snuffed out each of their young lives(and they ALL were still so very young with so very much life to live.. To give..) I know many ppl who DO NOT FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT THESE GIRLS OR ANY WHO SHARE IN THE LIFESTYLE/OCCUPATION THAT EACH WERE UNFORTUNATELY IN AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATHS.. I know there are these type ppl because some are my very own family members, neighbors, acquaintances, co-workers who have outwardly expressed their disdain and judgement towards these victims!!.. And it's very angering to hear and see this type judgement heaved upon VICTIMS AND VICTIM'S FAMILIES.. I remind them they ARE VICTIMS and no matter what anyone's personal opinion may be about a lifestyle or occupation.. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DID NOT DESERVE TO HAVE THEIR LIVES STOLEN AND ENDED IN SUCH A WAY AS THESE YOUNG GIRL's Have..*

And that's why I come here where there is an obvious overall respectful tone towards these girls even in light of full fledged discussions and details of what their lives as prostitutes entailed.. All of it, the good, bad, and the really ugly.. But these girls aren't disrespected or looked down upon here.. Their lives and their deaths are just as meaningful and just as important as any other life lost and here that is shown and seen to and by any/all who come here and read about the LISK and his victims.. Thank you to all of you who continue to add your input, thoughts, knowledge, experience, and all findings from the digging and sleuthing that continues being done in this case.. I know that I'm not alone in appreciating what each of you add..((((HUGS))))

Peter, I too have appreciated your detailed and thorough posts throughout this forum.. There is but one reoccurring detail/issue that I cannot for the life of me make sense of and I *must say it is a detail that is posted throughout many of the varying threads in the LISK forum.. Just a couple of them I have posted below and my poor attempts at making sense of each of them from each of the few posts that I snipped them from.. Respectfully, but yet wholeheartedly I continue to disagree with this detail..(links posted at the bottom)

The problem is, he may even operates out of LI, but we know in at least one of the cases, the victim made it back from the last client to NYC to the bus terminal. And the last John she had was in a hotel in NYC not far from the terminal at all, not in LI.

I do not understand the continued stating that one of the victims obviously wasn't murdered by a/the client(I've seen it worded as a and the "client") as she made it to the bus terminal.. Huh??????????

Except for Maureen making phone calls from the bus terminal ... Lets make this simple:*

1.) She came to Manhattan to meet with clients (her sister said so)

2.) The phone was pinged at the port authorities bus terminal (this is from LE). This is not even true

3.) She told friends, she needed a ride home, so her business was finished. (this is from the receivers of the phone call) BBM.. Again this is not true but rather ONLY a personal assumption

So, unless you claim, she had sex with the client at the bus terminal, her business with the client had ended a while ago because she obviously had already reached the bus terminal and had enough time to get robbed in between.
This in response to MK post could not be further from what the post stated

My comments to points in the post are highlighted in Red and BBM for specific emphasis..

Of course, it is also possible, she went in without seeing a client at all and it was someone totally else who she met ... or may, she made out a ride home (which everyone seems to deny now) in an hour and put a date in Long Island in, to shorten the waiting time ... but LI is alone an hour drive? Or wait, she met with a client, she left there (because she was later at the terminal), made out a ride home and the client followed her and killed her ... wait, why should he, after he had her earlier already in a controlled environment. Or, she had several clients, and not the last one killed her but the first one ... wait, that would have probably taken some attraction from her for the later clients ...

No, lets just follow Okam's razor for a moment. She was at the bus terminal. Whatever happened to her, it happened later to her. Why was she at the bus terminal in the first place? To ride home! That's the whole point.

Personal decision to disregard the first half which IMO is
Obviously a tad snark in referencing the victim being killed by a first John of the evening therefor her being dead would have made her quite unattractive to those johns that were to follow after she'd been murdered.. Really?!!!? :steam rolls outta ears:

Above portion BBM.. Actually we don't "know" what the "whole point was" for why the call was made "possibly" from the bus terminal, there could be an entire myriad of differing reasons for why she was there at that time.. The majority of them nothing to do with her going home at the exact time she made the call but rather more indicative of her NOT LEAVING TO HEAD HOME AT THAT VERY MOMENT.. A few listed below:
- First and foremost is her stating that she'd been robbed of her up to that point earnings.. This IMO is the MOST obvious reason for why she was NOT heading home at that point, empty handed but rather was pretty in need of some quick turn tricks to compensate atleast some portion of the earnings she'd just been robbed of..[will expand further on this detail later in this post]

- her being at the bus terminal could have been for:
~ free wi-fi to connect to Craigslist to update her ad.. Place new ad offering more services for less/more money in her desperately wanting to recoup her losses(which IMO would have put her in a much less safety conscious frame of my mind) IMO she'd have been much more inclined to do things that she normally would not have done..ie.. Go places she normally would not, with ppl she normally would not,etc..etc

~as well as NY bus terminals would have paid type locker/storage space that would IMO be a likely place for her to keep any number of personal items there in NYC for when she came to town for "business" since she did NOT live locally..(I would also reason that with her having not always made the wisest choices/decisions that it'd not be out of the realm of possiblities that she just maybe even kept a small, or who knows even good size stash of cash there in the terminal's paid storage space/lockers).. Something such as this(cash stash) certainly wouldn't be shocking IMO but just giving examples of one of many personal items she'd have kept in such a place..

~another possibility is that the terminal served as a home base type location for her.. Maybe a regular locale for where she would agree to meet up with the johns at..and with her being robbed of her earnings I too could see that she may even be trolling this area for johns out of desperately wanting to recoup atleast part of the earnings of which she'd been robbed..

Those are just a couple off the top of my head of the endless amount of possibilities as to why she was at/around the bus terminal.. "IF" she was there when she'd made the call to friends/fam informing them of her having been robbed(again as MK has stated several times we haven't a clue as to the exact time of the call, nor the exact contents and context of the call). And honestly who really even knows for certain that she was actually "at" the actual bus terminal when the call was made(AS IT IS NOT TRUETHAT LE STATED THAT THIS CALL PINGED HER CELL AT THE BUS TERMINAL).. So, truly for all we know she'd said she'd "been" there, was there moments or hours prior, or flat out lied for a myriad of reasons unbeknownst to us.. But no matter the point remains the same that there is nothing IMO that in any way means that she was done, finished, and leaving NYC at/around the time she made that last phone call.. IMO its likely very much the exact opposite that she was very much determined to at the very least recoup a portion of those earnings of which she was robbed and that means that there were clients, johns, tricks that she was very much determined to still turn for a profit that night..

*The point I still stumble upon is, that Maureen left that client. Okay, she didn't deposit that money, but she made phone calls about she was robbed after that. Which still puts her in some place away from that client.

Above BBM is the point once again that this victim making phone call(s) stating she'd been robbed and the possibility that in atleast one of the calls she may have been at the bus terminal.. That this somehow equals that she had no clients AFTER THESE CALLS is what IMO is so nonsensical.. Imo If indicative of anything it'd be the complete opposite in that she would have been damn determined to recoup some of the monies of which she'd been robbed.. And again in that type situation I can see her taking risks that she normally would not have done had it not been for her being robbed of the money she'd thus far earned.. Therefor IMO creating a near perfect storm of events leading up to her being in the clutches of this killer.. Maybe, just maybe had she not have been robbed of that money she'd earned turning tricks thus far she would likely have not been in the same frame of mind(ie. not as desperate) and therefor possibly paying more attention to her gut instincts that I believe with all my heart each of these women AT SOME POINT(possibly different points for each female) but nonetheless AT SOME POINT EACH OF THEIR INSTINCTS WERE SET OFF SOUNDING THE BELLS OF ALARM that there was "something" not quite right, not standard, unusual, hinky, whatever words you want to use to describe the gutteral instincts that we, as females ARE ALL EQUIPPED WITH AND MUST PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THEM AS 99.9999999% THEY ARE DEAD ON ACCURATE FROM THE VERY, FIRST, SLIGHT PANG OF UNEASINESS WE FEEL..

Without a doubt I know each of these women felt this at some point, and I'd be willing to bet that with more than one of these women this first, slight pang possibly even came very early on in the situation.. Maybe even so early in that had "M" not have been in the frame of mind nearing desperation from having been robbed that she would have better listened to those instincts from that very first pang of feeling something was not quite right with the situation, more specifically with the John, likely the serial killer..

For those reasons I believe that this so called perfect storm of events leading up to what would be her very last trick to turn definitely could play a major role in why this particular victim was a successful kill for the SK(but that is an entirely different subject that can be delved into at a different time).

For all intents and purposes regarding this particular post my point is that I, personally could not disagree more with this avenue repeatedly stated throughout these threads about the fact that this particular victim having made one or more phone calls to fam/friends informing them that she'd been robbed of her earnings thus far.. Or that this victim possibly was at/around the bus terminal when one of those calls were made.. I couldn't disagree more that either or both of those details in anyway whatsoever equal that she had NO clients, johns, or tricks at any point thereafter..*

"the last John she had was in a hotel in NYC not far from the terminal at all, not in LI.."(snipped from above post)
Or worded as, "M left that client".. OR .."Which still puts her in some place away from that client."(snipped from above post)

"that client" that M was away from(meaning a John/trick turned prior to her being robbed) IMO has nothing to do with anything.. It's obvious she'd not met with foul play in terms of her being murdered at any of the times/clients prior to the robbery or the last known phone call(s).. Equally obvious IMO is that M, AFTER being robbed, and AFTER placing the phone call(s) had every intention to continue taking "clients", turning "tricks", and therefor recouping atleast a portion of the monies of which she'd been robbed.. It is that/those client(s) that M crossed paths with AFTER being robbed and placing the call(s) that is "the one" .. The same "one" *that for certain atleast 3 other women(and quite possibly many more) crossed paths with and in turn were murdered and disposed of on GB as well..

**The following are links to Peter Brendt's couple posts from this thread of which the above quotes are snipped as examples of the bus terminal/phone call home issue**
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

 

[snapdragon2]

To Smoothoperator re: your post: Wow! That was a doozy. I agree with you. I think you've really thought this out and expressed it in a very intelligent and logical way. We need your continued input here, I think!

Also - I love what you wrote about the women at the beginning of your post. Very beautifully put, and again, I completely agree with you. If any of the victims' families ever come on here, I hope they feel the same way and know that we do care and it is not just a game to us.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Admittedly, <modsnip>. The entire <modsnip> of MBB's "distress" or "venting steam" call from the bus terminal and the fact, she had a room during the say in a cheap hotel on 46th street is <modsnip>. Or also the <modnip>fact, the MW's business was not entirely LI. And so on and so on. So, I do, what I did in other cases. I wait. <modsnip>, I don't believe, SG is connected to the GB4 and Manorville is an entirely different kind of animal at all. In the meantime, we know, SG isn't connected to the GB4. So hey ... I just wait <modsnip> Have a nice 2012.

 

[the quiet girl]

Admittedly, I am tired of going through all of it for the umpteenth time. The entire ignorance of MBB's "distress" or "venting steam" call from the bus terminal and the fact, she had a room during the say in a cheap hotel on 46th street is not helpful. Or also the ignorance of the fact, the MW's business was not entirely LI. And so on and so on. So, I do, what I did in other cases. I wait. I waited, when I went through the same mill on Yahoo for the Flint Stabber. Of course, today we know, he was no white supremacist as every hypnotized rabbit predicted but a guy who hunted for the sick and weak. And I waited when the Baseline-Killer mess was active after I was put through the same mill as now again. Of course, today we know in the meantime, he was no homeless loner as the hypnotized rabbits tried to tell us because of a ruse, he used only once or twice. He had, as I predicted on Yahoo, a wife and a home. I waited when I was still in Germany in the case of the Hammer Killer (it was a bit a wild time in Germany back then). And I waited already in this case, after I went through the very same mill for saying, I don't believe, SG is connected to the GB4 and Manorville is an entirely different kind of animal at all. In the meantime, we know, SG isn't connected to the GB4. So hey ... I just wait and when they got the guy, you can do what others in the other cases did: Forget, you were ever wrong. Have a nice 2012.

No we do not know either way as of yet, unless of course that has been announced and I missed that news story from LE.
I would love to know myself and nothing wrong with keeping an open mind, it helps with not missing anything that may be helpful.
Happy New Year 2012 may this creep get caught.

 

[Just K]

News around Shannan's COD and condition of her remains and personal belongings has been virtually NIL. There have been few facts released since the discovery of her belongings and remains. There is more to the story around Shannan's disappearance and death. The public is not privy to more than the basic facts that LE, Dormer and the press have released. Even Mari and her representative have gone quiet.

If anyone sees and links any new news reports or press releases, pertaining to SG's death, then perhaps we will have more to go on. For now, we don't know any details and therefore cannot say with any certainty that her death was not caused by another (a homicide.)

A Google Search shows the last news items, re: Shannon Gilbert, were published 12/20/2011...almost two weeks of silence from any source.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

the quiet girl, You are correct, we do not know if SG is connected to the GB4. All we have is dormer's premature declaration (before an autopsy and ME's report) that SG drowned in the marsh. Personally, I think it suspect that the DA and Dormer are at odds re: the number of serial killers. One would think that persons in such important postitions in public service would communicate about the case and reach a consensus before making public statements.

Did Dormer retire at the end of 2011 as reported? If so can any locals inform us of the identity of the new commissioner?

My woman's intuition tells me there is something stanky in OB and it isn't decomposing bodies. I found the comments from the latest 48 hrs. episode interesting. Here's a link........

http://www.cbsnews.com/8601-500251_...eId=58&blogId=&tag=contentBody;commentWrapper

moo

wm

 

[MrsPC]

IMO, Gilbert's demise is definitely related to the other 4 ladies and I don't believe for 1 second that she "drowned." I think Dormer just wasn't tipping his hand to the media. They obviously rec'd some sort of tip just prior to all their recent searching of that area.

I have spent hours & hours studying that NY Post photo of Gilbert's remains. It's my opinion that her upper body is wrapped in burlap. I can even see the frayed edges along the pelvis area. Here's a burlap fabric photo to give you an idea:

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-624...rayed-edges-isolated-on-white-background.html

Gilbert's arms are not exposed..they are underneath the wrapping, therefore it's not visible if she's wearing a tank top or even a long sleeved blouse.

Gilbert's legs look disproportionate from the rest of her remains...meaning, I do not see her legs from the knee down...I do not see her feet. I do however see what appears to be other bones protruding from underneath the "wrapping" - 1 at her face and 1 at her side by the pelvis - both on her right side, as if whatever these things are were placed on top of her before wrapping. And, the wrapping covers a portion of her face on the right side, up to her ear area. Again, I can see frayed edges.

The portion of her legs that do extend down from the pelvis area appear to be "straddling" a large bramble bush, as if they were deliberately placed in that fashion, with the bramble bush coming up through her crotch area. It's possible it just grew that way since she's most likely been dead for well over a year & a half.

The other ladies were dumped in thick bramble bush area...just off the roadway...and Gilbert's remains were just 100 yds off the roadway...in thick bramble bush. The only difference is that Gilbert's belongings were also dumped. But, that appears to me to have been a hastily done action.

Anyway, I just do not believe in all the coincidences in this case.

I also believe the Manhattan connection is the strongest link to the killer in this case. It's still my belief that he works there or is there very frequently.

just my humble opinions

 

[Clone101]

News around Shannan's COD and condition of her remains and personal belongings has been virtually NIL. There have been few facts released since the discovery of her belongings and remains. There is more to the story around Shannan's disappearance and death. The public is not privy to more than the basic facts that LE, Dormer and the press have released. Even Mari and her representative have gone quiet.

If anyone sees and links any new news reports or press releases, pertaining to SG's death, then perhaps we will have more to go on. For now, we don't know any details and therefore cannot say with any certainty that her death was not caused by another (a homicide.)

I feel ya,,I think something is cooking..
But it was the holidays so, could be part of it..
Plus i read some where, it will take some time to go bone by bone to check for trauma

Also i believe MG has parted ways with Sax's (saw this on the cbs fb page related to their show), Didnt Sax create the find shannan site? which is now offline.. cough cough or Maintenance Mode

Im starting to wonder if the family or family's mite not be in the know of whats going down or been told to keep quiet.. Ive learned more about this case from the family's (threw MSM) then from LE, (atleast in my eyes) Possibly info that LE wanted kept quiet..

___
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: It`s obviously a sociopath. And I think that what`s going on is a cat-and-mouse game, except of course, it`s not a game. It`s a horrible tragedy for these families. But between the killer and the police.

And the reason why the police have changed their stories from time to time may be that they`re giving out false information. There`s nothing wrong with that, because they`re trying to catch a killer. And sometimes they do that in hopes of provoking the killer to come forward, to call them, to give some clue, some information.

Also when they catch someone, they want to know if the person really has information about the case or if they`re just following news reports. So it wouldn`t surprise me if the police are putting out multiple theories, because they`re trying to catch a killer here.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/30/ijvm.01.html
___

Also related to the above snipped from the link..
I noticed watching the A&E and CBS shows, that they only really showed the young sisters of the victims, I beleive they are baiting him hoping he will contact one of girls, hence trapping him.. Possibly the only way they feel they can snare him, as i also beleive evidence is lacking from the crime scenes to convict with out a doubt... Im sure more will come when he is caught (house,car,pc etc)

 

[marie-chantal]

I noticed watching the A&E and CBS shows, that they only really showed the young sisters of the victims, I beleive they are baiting him hoping he will contact one of girls, hence trapping him.. Possibly the only way they feel they can snare him, as i also beleive evidence is lacking from the crime scenes to convict with out a doubt... Im sure more will come when he is caught (house,car,pc etc)

Snipped by me

I agree with you. I think we can safely say that this SK gets off on contacting the family members of his victims. The question is, how long will he be able to control himself and not pick up the phone to try to contact them again? I don't know if he's got that kind of self-control. I think it's a major part of his sexual sadism. I also think that this weakness will be the thing that will lead to his eventual capture (I hope).

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What a lovely post, Smooth Operator. And well thought out to.

Lurk less and post more!!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

IMO, Gilbert's demise is definitely related to the other 4 ladies and I don't believe for 1 second that she "drowned." I think Dormer just wasn't tipping his hand to the media. They obviously rec'd some sort of tip just prior to all their recent searching of that area.

I have spent hours & hours studying that NY Post photo of Gilbert's remains. It's my opinion that her upper body is wrapped in burlap. I can even see the frayed edges along the pelvis area. Here's a burlap fabric photo to give you an idea:

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-624...rayed-edges-isolated-on-white-background.html

Gilbert's arms are not exposed..they are underneath the wrapping, therefore it's not visible if she's wearing a tank top or even a long sleeved blouse.

Gilbert's legs look disproportionate from the rest of her remains...meaning, I do not see her legs from the knee down...I do not see her feet. I do however see what appears to be other bones protruding from underneath the "wrapping" - 1 at her face and 1 at her side by the pelvis - both on her right side, as if whatever these things are were placed on top of her before wrapping. And, the wrapping covers a portion of her face on the right side, up to her ear area. Again, I can see frayed edges.

The portion of her legs that do extend down from the pelvis area appear to be "straddling" a large bramble bush, as if they were deliberately placed in that fashion, with the bramble bush coming up through her crotch area. It's possible it just grew that way since she's most likely been dead for well over a year & a half.

The other ladies were dumped in thick bramble bush area...just off the roadway...and Gilbert's remains were just 100 yds off the roadway...in thick bramble bush. The only difference is that Gilbert's belongings were also dumped. But, that appears to me to have been a hastily done action.

Anyway, I just do not believe in all the coincidences in this case.

I also believe the Manhattan connection is the strongest link to the killer in this case. It's still my belief that he works there or is there very frequently.

just my humble opinions

That's been my feeling all along, Mrs. PC. Every fiber of my instinct tells me he lives in LI, but is somehow also connected to Manhattan. And not just Manhattan, either.

My gut STILL tells me he is somehow connected to strip clubs, and travels in connection with that business, but I have no way of sleuthing that until the guy IS caught, so...useless gut feeling.

 

[Clone101]

Can anyone point me to the NY Post photo of Gilbert's remains?
Havent seen or heard of a picture of the remains, Thank you in advance

 

[truthspider]

Can anyone point me to the NY Post photo of Gilbert's remains?
Havent seen or heard of a picture of the remains, Thank you in advance

I believe they were referring to this image.
personally I don't see anything in this photo.

 

[Clone101]

FWIW.. I enlarged the photo 400% and played with the colours and hues
To me in that picture, I looks like a full in tacked skelton..
Some separation at the knees but id think it due to decomp and loss of tendons
Looks like you can see a bent elbow and even fingers.. Almost looks like she just laid down or was placed..

Im not overly familiar with the other 4's remains (AC,MB,MW,MBB) found, but it sounds as if they were bags of bones (to be so crude), Would this be correct?

 

[marie-chantal]

That's been my feeling all along, Mrs. PC. Every fiber of my instinct tells me he lives in LI, but is somehow also connected to Manhattan. And not just Manhattan, either.

My gut STILL tells me he is somehow connected to strip clubs, and travels in connection with that business, but I have no way of sleuthing that until the guy IS caught, so...useless gut feeling.

BBM
Didn't Melissa tell her mother she was working as an exotic dancer? I wonder if there was ever any truth to this statement.

One of the AC victims, Tracy Roberts worked at a strip club, but was let go after her drug addiction caused her to lose so much weight (per the CBS interview).