The Importance of the Pineapple

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Doesn't matter original container or bowl. PR and JR insisted that JBR couldn't get into the fridge without help. Either bowl or container would be in the fridge, or else the fruit goes bad.

They wanted us to think an intruder gave this snack, but no evidence was seen, and they seemed to have forgotten that JBR wouldn't just snack on fruit from a strange man in the night without screaming. And if PR claims she can hear Burke use the restroom by his bedroom, then surely she can hear JBR bouncing around happily, creaking on stairs, following and chatting to a 'familiar' man if we assume a person she knew was the intruder. Oh that and all possible familiar men that wouldn't terrify her into screaming were ruled out.

Or it could be that they didn't think she could. People always want to dismiss the obvious answers in this case and go right for the dramatic diatribes.
There are many things we think our kids can't do until we see them do it. How many times have you heard someone sayd their child can't or wouldn't and yet they do.
To me the pineapple only serves to show that at some point she was alert after she returned home.

If they had given her pineapple the easiest thing is to say she had some. They did not know she had it because they had not given it to her.

 

[Ellie9]

If the pineapple was the only thing explained away I'd give the IDI this one for sure. But there's a long list of coincidences that becomes too much to deal with when viewed all together. The pineapple is just one of these.

 

[UKGuy]

I most often go with ingestion 30 minutes before head blow. But, I know that it is impossible to rule out the possibility of it being eaten before leaving for the White’s because the process is conditional, individualistic and can be impaired, or even stopped. But, I like the 30 minute time frame.

But, I don’t know how long passed between eating and head blow, and neither does anyone else. We know what expert opinion tells us happens in most cases but no one can tell us what happened in this case. It’s the great unknown and you’re welcome to your opinion, but it is only your opinion.
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AK

Anti-K,

Nearly everything to do with humans is conditional, individualistic and can be impaired, or even stopped.

The pineapple was eaten after JonBenet returned from the White's since it was last in her digestive system.

Pineapple is mainly water so digests very quickly, i.e. 15-45 minutes time-frame, faster than crab-meat!

All your imagining are alternative scenarios that remain alternative, i.e. they do not contradict the RDI theory, so cannot supplant it.

in most cases but no one can tell us what happened in this case.

Including yourself, but some will know much more than you, so your opinion will remain as such, mere opinion.

.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If the pineapple was the only thing explained away I'd give the IDI this one for sure. But there's a long list of coincidences that becomes too much to deal with when viewed all together. The pineapple is just one of these.

You are right.. The reason that there are many things that can be explained this way is because it is simply how it happened. The ridiculousness of the made up tales and scenarios about how this child was killed and by whom and the people who think it was part of some crazy child *advertiser censored* scheme and on and on, Is why people think people who follow this case are nuts.
When you get to the facts of the case, The DNA and the reasonability of the information it comes down to she was killed by an unknown. That is what the evidence supports. That is why the dna is in CODIS and the bunk about that not being real dna is just ludicrous. Of course in every other case CODIS held up its standards but not in this case.. No.. They settled for crappy not real DNA.

Balderdash.
This case will not be solved by crazy novels about made up scenarios, It will be solved when and if they match that DNA.

 

[UKGuy]

If the pineapple was the only thing explained away I'd give the IDI this one for sure. But there's a long list of coincidences that becomes too much to deal with when viewed all together. The pineapple is just one of these.

Ellie9,
The pineapple in the serving bowl had rind, the pineapple in JonBenet's bowl had rind on it, the forensic sample had rind on it, and was judged to match each other.


IDI have no coherent IDI theory, no forensic evidence, and are reduced to inventing counterfactual scenarios, which may have happened in some universe, but sadly not in JonBenet's.

.

 

[Ellie9]

Ellie9,
The pineapple in the serving bowl had rind, the pineapple in JonBenet's bowl had rind on it, the forensic sample had rind on it, and was judged to match each other.

Maybe my words were misinterpreted, or I'm confusing yours here. I meant to say that if the pineapple thing was just one of maybe a couple strange coincidences, I'd say, okay coincidences happen. Maybe JBR learned to get into the fridge herself without help just recently. Maybe her parents didn't hear her go downstairs even though they thought they'd hear. Sure.

But when I have to stretch my imagination for so many things presented by IDI then it just sounds ridiculous. There are too many of these 'coincidences.' A handful of coincidences is fine. A mountain of them isn't, no way! This is why after coming here to take in both sides of the argument, I'm leaning so far to the RDI side due to the flimsy explanations and just the quantity alone of flimsy explanations.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe my words were misinterpreted, or I'm confusing yours here. I meant to say that if the pineapple thing was just one of maybe a couple strange coincidences, I'd say, okay coincidences happen. Maybe JBR learned to get into the fridge herself without help just recently. Maybe her parents didn't hear her go downstairs even though they thought they'd hear. Sure.

But when I have to stretch my imagination for so many things presented by IDI then it just sounds ridiculous. There are too many of these 'coincidences.' A handful of coincidences is fine. A mountain of them isn't, no way! This is why after coming here to take in both sides of the argument, I'm leaning so far to the RDI side due to the flimsy explanations and just the quantity alone of flimsy explanations.

Ellie9,
No, you were clear, most reasonable people, once they read the facts lean towards some RDI theory, particularly once its obvious how vacuous any IDI theory could be, once it was Santa Did It

On the rind I was simply restating the facts for others to consider.

.

 

[Anti-K]

Doesn't matter original container or bowl. PR and JR insisted that JBR couldn't get into the fridge without help. Either bowl or container would be in the fridge, or else the fruit goes bad.

They wanted us to think an intruder gave this snack, but no evidence was seen, and they seemed to have forgotten that JBR wouldn't just snack on fruit from a strange man in the night without screaming. And if PR claims she can hear Burke use the restroom by his bedroom, then surely she can hear JBR bouncing around happily, creaking on stairs, following and chatting to a 'familiar' man if we assume a person she knew was the intruder. Oh that and all possible familiar men that wouldn't terrify her into screaming were ruled out.

it matters only in that some people are saying that the bowl was in the fridge. this isn’t necessarily true. and, maybe the fruit did go bad and that’s why she only had a nibble?

i more-or-less agree with everything else you said here. cuz i’m a contrarian, eh!
…

ÁK

 

[Anti-K]

Now you are being ridiculous. If it comes in styrofoam, you dice it and put it all in a bowl. You honestly think anybody would hack pieces out of the styrofoam package?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

good grief.
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AK

 

[Anti-K]

Anti-K,

Nearly everything to do with humans is conditional, individualistic and can be impaired, or even stopped.

The pineapple was eaten after JonBenet returned from the White's since it was last in her digestive system.

Pineapple is mainly water so digests very quickly, i.e. 15-45 minutes time-frame, faster than crab-meat!

All your imagining are alternative scenarios that remain alternative, i.e. they do not contradict the RDI theory, so cannot supplant it.


Including yourself, but some will know much more than you, so your opinion will remain as such, mere opinion.

.

food does not exit in the same order that it enters, so you cannot reasonably, logically or factually say that she ate pineapple last. it is not known that she ate at the white’s. this is speculative, food was set aside, no one knows if she ate or just nibbled or what.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Maybe my words were misinterpreted, or I'm confusing yours here. I meant to say that if the pineapple thing was just one of maybe a couple strange coincidences, I'd say, okay coincidences happen. Maybe JBR learned to get into the fridge herself without help just recently. Maybe her parents didn't hear her go downstairs even though they thought they'd hear. Sure.

But when I have to stretch my imagination for so many things presented by IDI then it just sounds ridiculous. There are too many of these 'coincidences.' A handful of coincidences is fine. A mountain of them isn't, no way! This is why after coming here to take in both sides of the argument, I'm leaning so far to the RDI side due to the flimsy explanations and just the quantity alone of flimsy explanations.

perhaps you overestimate the number of coincidences? perhaps the number of coincidences in any specific situation is without limit?
…

AK

 

[UKGuy]

food does not exit in the same order that it enters, so you cannot reasonably, logically or factually say that she ate pineapple last. it is not known that she ate at the white’s. this is speculative, food was set aside, no one knows if she ate or just nibbled or what.
…

AK

Anti-K,
You are talking your usual nonsense, maybe you are trolling the forum and should be banned for posting utter rubbish?

According to you my breakfast , lunch and evening meal can exit thus: evening meal followed by my lunch then my impatient breakfast.

Three forensic items in the Ramsey house all separated in time and space have been classified as containing pineapple rind, i.e. the serving bowl, JonBenet's bowl, and JonBenet's digestive tract hence a common source.

With the partially digested pineapple positioned above whatever she ate at the White's and that above whatever she ate at lunch time, the inescapable conclusion is JonBenet snacked pineapple after arriving back from the White's.

.

 

[Ellie9]

Anti-K,
You are talking your usual nonsense, maybe you are trolling the forum and should be banned for posting utter rubbish?

According to you my breakfast , lunch and evening meal can exit thus: evening meal followed by my lunch then my impatient breakfast.

Three forensic items in the Ramsey house all separated in time and space have been classified as containing pineapple rind, i.e. the serving bowl, JonBenet's bowl, and JonBenet's digestive tract hence a common source.

With the partially digested pineapple positioned above whatever she ate at the White's and that above whatever she ate at lunch time, the inescapable conclusion is JonBenet snacked pineapple after arriving back from the White's.

.

Weird things like this can happen - if JBR suffered a serious (and rare) digestive disorder. Let me guess, the IDI response... by coincidence, too, she had an undiagnosed digestive disorder that began on the 25th of December. Let me rule that stuff out before it starts. This disorder would have caused her intense stomach pain and nausea, likely vomiting, enough to warrant an emergency call to the pediatrician at least, if not the urgent care or ER.

 

[andreww]

food does not exit in the same order that it enters, so you cannot reasonably, logically or factually say that she ate pineapple last. it is not known that she ate at the white’s. this is speculative, food was set aside, no one knows if she ate or just nibbled or what.
…

AK

They had as sit down Christmas dinner for god's sake. If her parents didn't make sure their six year old girl didn't eat something between breakfast and bedtime, they should be in prison for that alone. Of course their memory had failed them by the time they asked.

And you are right that all food does not digest equally. The proble is Pineapple would be on the fast end of the scale, meats would be on the slow end.

Try again.

 

[Anti-K]

Anti-K,
You are talking your usual nonsense, maybe you are trolling the forum and should be banned for posting utter rubbish?

According to you my breakfast , lunch and evening meal can exit thus: evening meal followed by my lunch then my impatient breakfast.

Three forensic items in the Ramsey house all separated in time and space have been classified as containing pineapple rind, i.e. the serving bowl, JonBenet's bowl, and JonBenet's digestive tract hence a common source.

With the partially digested pineapple positioned above whatever she ate at the White's and that above whatever she ate at lunch time, the inescapable conclusion is JonBenet snacked pineapple after arriving back from the White's.

.

not nonsense: facts:

Studies of gastrointestinal transit have clearly demonstrated two related phenomena important to understanding this process:
Substances do not move uniformly through the digestive system.
Materials do not leave segments of the digestive tube in the same order as they arrive.
http://tinyurl.com/2pdbru

Different types of food empty from the stomach at different rates http://tinyurl.com/zr7nq8o
.

nothing was found to contain pineapple rind. the bowl had pineapple, jbr had eaten pineapple, there may have been some rind on the pineapple, but they didn’t find bowls of rind, they found ONE bowl of pineapple. there is no such thing as “jbr’s bowl.”
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Weird things like this can happen - if JBR suffered a serious (and rare) digestive disorder. Let me guess, the IDI response... by coincidence, too, she had an undiagnosed digestive disorder that began on the 25th of December. Let me rule that stuff out before it starts. This disorder would have caused her intense stomach pain and nausea, likely vomiting, enough to warrant an emergency call to the pediatrician at least, if not the urgent care or ER.

you could be right. but, haven’t you ever seen a child (or, anyone) vomit food that they’d eaten hours and hours before? i know it has happened to me. i have an undiagnosed medical condition (possibly meniere’s disease) and have random attacks of vertigo, which is sometimes severe enough to cause me to vomit. i’ve vomited in the middle of night food that i had eaten for lunch. what do you think is happening there?
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

They had as sit down Christmas dinner for god's sake. If her parents didn't make sure their six year old girl didn't eat something between breakfast and bedtime, they should be in prison for that alone. Of course their memory had failed them by the time they asked.

And you are right that all food does not digest equally. The proble is Pineapple would be on the fast end of the scale, meats would be on the slow end.

Try again.

oh, i have no problem with saying jbr ate pineapple last EXCEPT when someone says she ate it last because of where it was found. food doesn’t exit as it enters. say she ate pineapple last for some other reason and there might not be any disagreement from me.

as far as i can remember, no one knows what, or if, jbr ate at the white’s. it’s okay if you think this is bad parenting.
…

AK

 

[UKGuy]

oh, i have no problem with saying jbr ate pineapple last EXCEPT when someone says she ate it last because of where it was found. food doesn’t exit as it enters. say she ate pineapple last for some other reason and there might not be any disagreement from me.

as far as i can remember, no one knows what, or if, jbr ate at the white’s. it’s okay if you think this is bad parenting.
…

AK

Anti-K,
It might be a good idea for you to research precisely what JonBenet ate Christmas day.

.

 

[Ellie9]

you could be right. but, haven’t you ever seen a child (or, anyone) vomit food that they’d eaten hours and hours before? i know it has happened to me. i have an undiagnosed medical condition (possibly meniere’s disease) and have random attacks of vertigo, which is sometimes severe enough to cause me to vomit. i’ve vomited in the middle of night food that i had eaten for lunch. what do you think is happening there?
…

AK

Again this is fine on its own. But with a stack of other unlikely events it becomes too off the wall. If there was clear evidence of a break in, a more traditional ransom note, weapons used outside the home (like a silenced gun, for example), things left from the intruder inside the home, eye witness reports of a breakin, other breakins around the neighbourhood, stalking reports from earlier incidences, ... anything. If there was some more 'meat' to the IDI theory, I'd be more involved with IDI theories. But there just isn't.

So on its OWN, a stomach illness could possibly explain slowed digestion. It's so unusual this would happen to day of her murder, and no evidence of the stomach illness, but okay. If there were a lot of other clues for an intruder I'd be on board that this was one of those crazy things. But there just isn't enough evidence to convince me.

And like I've been saying there would just be too many coincidences and rarities. This would be one of the extremely rare cases of a child's death that was caused by people other than family. It would be an extremely rare case of a found dead body with a ransom note. It would be an extremely rare case of an intruder who did not appear to bring their own equipment for the job. It would an extremely rare case of an intruder who hung around the house for hours and hours, rather than the normal 'in and out' jobs. It would be an extremely rare case of an intruder who wrote the ransom note by hand, and inside the scene of the crime.

If you take ONE of these rare situations. Yes. Okay, not everything fits the norm. Got it. You take all at once, and you're just looking at the wrong solution. I've said before, Occam's razor has got to apply somewhere here. Not everything is going to be a complicated coincidence and a complicated rare series of events.

 

[Anti-K]

Again this is fine on its own. But with a stack of other unlikely events it becomes too off the wall. If there was clear evidence of a break in, a more traditional ransom note, weapons used outside the home (like a silenced gun, for example), things left from the intruder inside the home, eye witness reports of a breakin, other breakins around the neighbourhood, stalking reports from earlier incidences, ... anything. If there was some more 'meat' to the IDI theory, I'd be more involved with IDI theories. But there just isn't.

So on its OWN, a stomach illness could possibly explain slowed digestion. It's so unusual this would happen to day of her murder, and no evidence of the stomach illness, but okay. If there were a lot of other clues for an intruder I'd be on board that this was one of those crazy things. But there just isn't enough evidence to convince me.

And like I've been saying there would just be too many coincidences and rarities. This would be one of the extremely rare cases of a child's death that was caused by people other than family. It would be an extremely rare case of a found dead body with a ransom note. It would be an extremely rare case of an intruder who did not appear to bring their own equipment for the job. It would an extremely rare case of an intruder who hung around the house for hours and hours, rather than the normal 'in and out' jobs. It would be an extremely rare case of an intruder who wrote the ransom note by hand, and inside the scene of the crime.

If you take ONE of these rare situations. Yes. Okay, not everything fits the norm. Got it. You take all at once, and you're just looking at the wrong solution. I've said before, Occam's razor has got to apply somewhere here. Not everything is going to be a complicated coincidence and a complicated rare series of events.

No worries. I know i’m not going to convince you of anything or get you to change your mind. I don’t think i’ve ever seen that happen, it’s fine. I know i will never win an argument here. That sort of thing just doesn’t happen. I’m okay with that. It is what it is.

But – did you just sort of almost agree that maybe even if you think it would be a coincidence, but under certain conditions, jbr could have eaten the pineapple before going to the white’s? Off topic, but what do you think is going on with me? No stomach illness, flu of any kind but hours and hours and hours later – vertigo, vomit – in the middle of the night something comes up that i ate in the middle of the afternoon. I think i’ll try to remember to ask my dr on next visit. Anyway… sorry.

Coincidences are things that are seemingly connected but, in fact, have no connection. Often, they are subjective. They occur millions and millions of times a day, all over the world. There is nothing remarkable about them and we should expect to see them. Especially if we look for them! And, that’s about all that i’ll say about that, here. I understand the objection, but it’s based on a fallacious premise. No worries.
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AK