The Importance of the Pineapple

[UKGuy]

Anti-K
All your counterfactual speculation is based on a fallacious premise, i.e. that the foreign dna is that of JonBenet's killer, whereas the the actual forensic evidence suggests its more likely to be mere touch-dna, why?

Because it does not appear on any other artifact in the wine-cellar never mind the house!


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[Anti-K]

Anti-K
All your counterfactual speculation is based on a fallacious premise, i.e. that the foreign dna is that of JonBenet's killer, whereas the the actual forensic evidence suggests its more likely to be mere touch-dna, why?

Because it does not appear on any other artifact in the wine-cellar never mind the house!


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If IDI, there is NO reason that we should expect to find further samples of this DNA. Your objection here is unfounded and almost silly.

I don’t base anything on the premise that this DNA came from jbr’s killer. This DNA merely represents a person who must be identified and investigated; it represents a potential suspect.
…

AK

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Anti-K,
You are talking your usual nonsense, maybe you are trolling the forum and should be banned for posting utter rubbish?

According to you my breakfast , lunch and evening meal can exit thus: evening meal followed by my lunch then my impatient breakfast.

Three forensic items in the Ramsey house all separated in time and space have been classified as containing pineapple rind, i.e. the serving bowl, JonBenet's bowl, and JonBenet's digestive tract hence a common source.

With the partially digested pineapple positioned above whatever she ate at the White's and that above whatever she ate at lunch time, the inescapable conclusion is JonBenet snacked pineapple after arriving back from the White's.

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Just because you eat something before something does not mean it is digested in that order. Some things take longer than other to digest. That is just a fact.

 

[leelee114]

99% lurker but a few points......

- Food may not digest in the order in which it is consumed but pineapple does tend to digest rather quickly. There was nothing in her stomach,pineapple was in the proximal portion of her small intestine. Fecal matter was in the large intestine.

-According to Patsy herself they had a late pancake breakfast Christmas morning. The detective asked if pineapple was served and she said no. Nor could she think of any other time she would have had the pineapple at home during the day.

- Demuth states
20 TRIP DEMUTH: The Whites have told us that
21 they did not serve her pineapple

- JonBenet did have cracked crab on crackers at the White's party as Priscilla specifically set it out for her. Given the fecal matter in her system, the location of the pineapple and that it was still in discernible pieces, all logical signs point to this being something she had after returning home. Especially since there was pineapple in the house.

- Now this entire thing about timing and maybe it was from an earlier event is a lovely hypothetical but if the answer was that simple then Patsy would have explained it in that manner. Instead she acted like a blathering idiot. Initially she suggests maybe the women at her house on the 26th set it out. Then she states she would never serve pineapple in the way it was displayed and rambles on and on about the weirdness of it. She points out that she cleared that table after the pancake breakfast and that the bowl was not there.

5 PATSY RAMSEY: Somebody else did this,
6 because I would never put a spoon that big in a bowl
7 like that, and I can't tell what that is, whether that
8 is grits or apples or cereal or -- I can't tell what
9 that is.

Then she makes this leap.

22 TRIP DEMUTH: Can you also understand that
23 the only people that could have done it is yourself or
24 the Whites?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Or whoever killed JonBenet

Seriously could that leap get more unreasonable? The simple answer would have been,"Well if the White's didn't do it then it must have slipped my mind." Yet in Patsy's mind she naturally associates the pineapple with her daughter's murder.


And here is a snippet of her being incredibly defensive when she learns of her fingerprints on the bowl after being the one to inquire if there were fingerprints on the bowl.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.

So while there could be many reasonable explanations for the presence of the pineapple in JonBenet or the bowl, Patsy did not choose to use any of them. IMO if there was nothing suspicious then natural responses would be "Maybe JonBenet came down and ate a snack with Burke." Or perhaps,"Huh weird I guess I left that bowl out after breakfast." And she also avoids this simple answer'"Of course my prints are on the bowl. It is mine afterall."

But instead of reasonable she goes for what I call ramseyable and has no clue where it came from, acts like it is the strangest thing she has ever seen, insists JonBenet can't reach the bowl, insists that the kids couldn't be downstairs rattling around without waking her (yet apparently a pineapple loving killer could), and is shocked at her fingerprints being on a bowl in her own kitchen. IMO it isn't just the presence of pineapple or the timing that is most important but instead it is Patsy's response. It should not trigger such a response and yet it does because she knows it throws off their timeline and their story that JonBenet was asleep when they got home. And that should not be fear inducing unless the timeline was fabricated in order to cover up the series of events which resulted in JonBenet's murder.

 

[andreww]

You nailed it leelee. I often say that the truth of this case lies not in physical evidence, but in the nonsensical reactions of the Ramsey's to the evidence.

police: we found Burkes voice on the 911 call.

Ramsey's: guess what, Burke just told us he was awake the whole time. Kids eh?


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[andreww]

Just because you eat something before something does not mean it is digested in that order. Some things take longer than other to digest. That is just a fact.

Then when did she eat it? Sure wasn't at breakfast, so now we're in to the previous day.

What if like to know is what she ate at the White's? I know they had a sit down dinner, did nobody ensure that she ate? The fact that her stomach was empty leads me to believe she ate nothing. So logic would also say that she was hungry when she got home. Something likely happened in the kitchen because she only ate one piece, hardly filling. My guess is that some kind of altercation happened between JB and Burke and things escalated from there.


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[Armchair2]

1st post
I'm commenting on the glass I think it was an iced tea someone from the south may enjoy. When JB was questioned about the glass he comments that he didn't think his kids liked iced tea. It's as though he knew it had been iced tea. Reminds me of the question have you ever seen this woman response I've never stabbed anyone.

 

[InstantProof]

I think the R's deny the pineapple and act like the set up is something from another planet because, besides it throwing off their story, they decided they needed something in the house to be off, to suggest an intruder.

 

[andreww]

I think the R's deny the pineapple and act like the set up is something from another planet because, besides it throwing off their story, they decided they needed something in the house to be off, to suggest an intruder.

Exactly. It was during this period that the Ramseys were also denying any knowledge of the Santa Bear, or of Burke ever having owned HiTek boots. The knew damn well there was no evidence of an intruder, so time to start manufacturing some.

 

[andreww]

1st post
I'm commenting on the glass I think it was an iced tea someone from the south may enjoy. When JB was questioned about the glass he comments that he didn't think his kids liked iced tea. It's as though he knew it had been iced tea. Reminds me of the question have you ever seen this woman response I've never stabbed anyone.

Very good point. We know the Ramsey's tried to erase Burke from the picture wherever they could. Did John slip up and tell us exactly what was in that glass?

 

[UKGuy]

1st post
I'm commenting on the glass I think it was an iced tea someone from the south may enjoy. When JB was questioned about the glass he comments that he didn't think his kids liked iced tea. It's as though he knew it had been iced tea. Reminds me of the question have you ever seen this woman response I've never stabbed anyone.

Armchair2,
How would, say Burke, have gone about making iced tea?


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[andreww]

Armchair2,
How would, say Burke, have gone about making iced tea?


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Thats kind of how I feel about this UKGuy, kids that age don't tend to do much on their own. Even something as simple as getting a glass of milk, its easier to ask mom. No matter how many times I've gone over it in my mind, I really don't see a scenario in which Patsy isn't there.

 

[Ellie9]

Thats kind of how I feel about this UKGuy, kids that age don't tend to do much on their own. Even something as simple as getting a glass of milk, its easier to ask mom. No matter how many times I've gone over it in my mind, I really don't see a scenario in which Patsy isn't there.

I agree with this. From what little I have read about BR it seems he was not a very helpful big brother. In PMPT he is reported as always being alone and quiet, not interacting with jonbenet or anyone at all much. And his other behaviour reported by many from other sources leads me to believe that this boy either had a mental disorder or he was pretty badly abused in some way. This does not seem to be the kind of sibling relationship where they help each other or even talk to each other for fun.

I don't know what Burke knows, I don't know if he had any part in this. From the theory I am working towards I'm not sure he'd need to have been there.


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[Armchair2]

I don't think br made the iced tea I think jr may have enjoyed the iced tea

 

[Ringfinger]

Very good point. We know the Ramsey's tried to erase Burke from the picture wherever they could. Did John slip up and tell us exactly what was in that glass?

Sweet tea / iced tea isn't made one glass at a time with a bag like that. It is made in a pitcher in bulk.




I was just reading Foreign Faction (for the first time) and noticed that it says:

Father Holverstock advised he had been heating a glass of water in the kitchen microwave when things began to happen. Fleet White had a look on his face that he'd "never seen before," and racing past him through the kitchen, exclaimed that JonBenet had been found.


Why was he heating a glass if water in the microwave?

 

[UKGuy]

Sweet tea / iced tea isn't made one glass at a time with a bag like that. It is made in a pitcher in bulk.




I was just reading Foreign Faction (for the first time) and noticed that it says:

Father Holverstock advised he had been heating a glass of water in the kitchen microwave when things began to happen. Fleet White had a look on his face that he'd "never seen before," and racing past him through the kitchen, exclaimed that JonBenet had been found.


Why was he heating a glass if water in the microwave?

Ringfinger,
Lets assume he was going to make a cup of tea or coffee?

Although iced tea is not that difficult to make, would one teabag be sufficient, would it have been made in that glass with ice from the fridge added?


Who thinks Burke might have done as Father Holverstock and placed the glass in the microwave then added ice?

Personally I think not, somehow the teabag seems out of place, looks more like a cup of tea was made and the used teabag placed into the glass, hence BR's fingerprint?

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[Ringfinger]

Ringfinger,
Lets assume he was going to make a cup of tea or coffee?

Although iced tea is not that difficult to make, would one teabag be sufficient, would it have been made in that glass with ice from the fridge added?


Who thinks Burke might have done as Father Holverstock and placed the glass in the microwave then added ice?

Personally I think not, somehow the teabag seems out of place, looks more like a cup of tea was made and the used teabag placed into the glass, hence BR's fingerprint?

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It could have been placed in the glass after it was used. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have any idea where the pineapple table was in regard to the support party of the 26th. I have microwaved water for tea before.

 

[Armchair2]

Ringfinger,
Lets assume he was going to make a cup of tea or coffee?

Although iced tea is not that difficult to make, would one teabag be sufficient, would it have been made in that glass with ice from the fridge added?


Who thinks Burke might have done as Father Holverstock and placed the glass in the microwave then added ice?

Personally I think not, somehow the teabag seems out of place, looks more like a cup of tea was made and the used teabag placed into the glass, hence BR's fingerprint?

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While sweet tea is usually made in picture with several tea bags and set in the sun for a few hours, a quick glass could be microwaved and a single tea bag used for flavor a sort of comfort food if stressed maybe alittle sloppily made I think it was jr who had the tea

 

[Armchair2]

Jr may have been with br after the fact

 

[Annapurna]

It could have been placed in the glass after it was used. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have any idea where the pineapple table was in regard to the support party of the 26th. I have microwaved water for tea before.

I think this is the most likely explanation for the teabag. Someone was drinking water, someone else was drinking warm tea. Someone (an adult I think) set the bag in the empty glass, rinsed out their mug and probably put it in the dishwasher. I wonder if there are any pictures to see if there were dishes in the sink.