The Phone Calls in the early morning of Dec.18, 2013 (both PayPhone & cells)

[Madeleine74]

I'm not going to assume there was any fight. The events in sequence show TM & SM were out 'having relations' in various public areas and TM sending pics to HE's phone. The next thing we hear is that SM is calling H.E. from a payphone and it seemed to be about trying to lure her out, which he eventually did, albeit a couple hours later. I question whether SM was doing anything at that point without his wife's permission, let alone instructions. I think TM was in on whatever what happening that night, all the way through.

 

[nosysw]

Did you read this on one of the Heather threads or in MSM? Interesting.

I think Surfside is saying a WS'er proposed this as a speculative theory. I read it, too, but don't remember on which thread. Basically I believe the theory was that TM and SM fought and she kicked him out of the truck, hence him needing to use a payphone. IIRC.

 

[borndem]

If they had gone to her apartment, IMO, there should have been some signs of a struggle or something. Doubtful she would have gone quietly with SM/TM. I suppose TM could have been hiding...but my instincts say LE knows Heather left her apartment alone. They have said so, more or less, from the start. Someone posted today that there are cameras at the complex...maybe they have had video for a while.

The timeline makes sense to me, overall. Heather was waiting to hear back from SM. Played on tumblr, maybe sent some messages. Finally calls him back. Eventually gets him on phone and leaves at once to meet him. Even the six minutes could work for me, for the murder. Time six minutes out...it is a while. But I also have a feeling that the state will not try to convince the jury it took place there. Since she has not been found, the crime scene may be with her body.

All they had to do was hit her on the head to subdue her for a few seconds, throw her in the truck and go. Six minutes is way long, for that, iMO. Same amount of time as shooting her, probably. Either could be done in less than one minute. The state may even set an alarm for six minutes in the courtroom, if they believe it happened at PTL. That is what I would do. Then the jury could feel how long it really is.

JMO

bbm

I agree, cluciano -- I have seen it done in a courtroom. In the Brad Cooper case, where the mode of death was strangulation... At what became the end of the PT's closing argument, the prosecutor looked at the courtroom clock & started a 3-minute period. The talked and walked back & forth, called out at the 1-minute mark, pointed to the defendant & glared at him, he did this and that, called out at the 2-minute mark, walked again, then he walked back to the podium, looked at the clock, said "That's it" (or something similar), put his hands under each side of his large ring-binder-type notebook on the podium, loudly slammed the notebook shut, and went to his chair & sat down. Done.

Very effective in showing just how long 3 minutes really is -- the time it takes to strangle the life out of a young healthy woman. Verdict was G of 1st murder.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe SM was thinking about Heather (am not sure how LE could know they had not been in contact) and maybe sex makes TM go to sleep...so he was trying to wear her out so he sneak out of the house to call Heather? Kind of kidding...

 

[nosysw]

Maybe SM was thinking about Heather (am not sure how LE could know they had not been in contact) and maybe sex makes TM go to sleep...so he was trying to wear her out so he sneak out of the house to call Heather? Kind of kidding...

Above BBM:

I guess LE would think no contact if they had Heather's phone history and could account for all numbers(?)

Re: the rest:

First of all ewwww...then, yup, I think there was a LOT of manipulation to get away from her. Going back many months. You know, make mama happy and then you get to do what you want.

But, maybe she was onto it...and followed him.

 

[cluciano63]

Above BBM:

I guess LE would think no contact if they had Heather's phone history and could account for all numbers(?)

Re: the rest:

First of all ewwww...then, yup, I think there was a LOT of manipulation to get away from her. Going back many months. You know, make mama happy and then you get to do what you want.

But, maybe she was onto it...and followed him.

I wonder if they met up on occasion...there would be no proof of that. Just seems strange for LE to state that as a fact, basically, that they were not in touch. Maybe not electronically?

 

[nosysw]

I wonder if they met up on occasion...there would be no proof of that. Just seems strange for LE to state that as a fact, basically, that they were not in touch. Maybe not electronically?

But, unless they were seeing one another at work, how would they keep a relationship going without some kind of trace? How could they meet up, for example, without a phone call? LE, at this point would know, their home numbers, their cell numbers, their SM accounts, etc...electronic trails are out there forever. Not like back in the day when we might slip one another a note, literally, that could be torn up, shredded, whatever. They'd have to be pretty sharp to not leave some kind of electronic trail, iykwim. Especially with TM monitoring his every move. Even going to work with him.

 

[hockeymom4]

Above BBM:

I guess LE would think no contact if they had Heather's phone history and could account for all numbers(?)

Re: the rest:

First of all ewwww...then, yup, I think there was a LOT of manipulation to get away from her. Going back many months. You know, make mama happy and then you get to do what you want.

But, maybe she was onto it...and followed him.

Something that came up tonight at our house was texting. My nephew was not allowed to text and had his phone taken away as a punishment. He has an iPad for school and apparently was using an app, called ooVoo. I don't know exactly all the details, but I do know you can chat, similar to instant messaging and video chat. This is just another way the kids have shown me a way of talking to their friends without using texting or calling. As I stated earlier apps in games are a big one, not to mention fake facebook pages set up for the relationship. I have friends who do this. Her phone may not hold all the answers if she did it somewhere else. Also, he could have used someone else's device.... I hope the warrant covered everyone in the house and the one next door.

My personal opinion...I am not convinced communication was stopped this whole time. I believe they either saw each other in person or communicated another way. If I wanted to talk to someone and not have it be traced by other parties, it is not hard to do. It is 2014.

 

[hockeymom4]

I think Surfside is saying a WS'er proposed this as a speculative theory. I read it, too, but don't remember on which thread. Basically I believe the theory was that TM and SM fought and she kicked him out of the truck, hence him needing to use a payphone. IIRC.

Gotcha. I get confused so quickly on here. I have often believed he was on foot at the payphone. Just my gut.

 

[cluciano63]

But, unless they were seeing one another at work, how would they keep a relationship going without some kind of trace? How could they meet up, for example, without a phone call? LE, at this point would know, their home numbers, their cell numbers, their SM accounts, etc...electronic trails are out there forever. Not like back in the day when we might slip one another a note, literally, that could be torn up, shredded, whatever. They'd have to be pretty sharp to not leave some kind of electronic trail, iykwim. Especially with TM monitoring his every move. Even going to work with him.

I wonder, did she have no calls from pay phones before?

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

What about a close friend? I'm wondering if SM had at least one close friend whom he trusted enough to pass messages onto Heather for him. :twocents:

 

[Mahouston69]

Something that came up tonight at our house was texting. My nephew was not allowed to text and had his phone taken away as a punishment. He has an iPad for school and apparently was using an app, called ooVoo. I don't know exactly all the details, but I do know you can chat, similar to instant messaging and video chat. This is just another way the kids have shown me a way of talking to their friends without using texting or calling. As I stated earlier apps in games are a big one, not to mention fake facebook pages set up for the relationship. I have friends who do this. Her phone may not hold all the answers if she did it somewhere else. Also, he could have used someone else's device.... I hope the warrant covered everyone in the house and the one next door.

My personal opinion...I am not convinced communication was stopped this whole time. I believe they either saw each other in person or communicated another way. If I wanted to talk to someone and not have it be traced by other parties, it is not hard to do. It is 2014.

I really hope they have LE well versed in investigation of all social media, iPhone apps, and technology I'm sure she was using...

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[lisalei321]

I'm still wondering if he had a "bat" phone and was communicating with HE on it?

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[cluciano63]

Didn't SM work at TK until sometime in December, after she disappeared? If so, they could have talked there or arranged meetings.

 

[NFYIAMY]

...and since we know Heather had become fearful of TM.....I would be that if they were continuing communication......they were both being super-di-duper careful and secretive at that point?

 

[cluciano63]

Was TM allegedly going to TK whenever he worked there, in November and December? If so, that must have been beyond awkward...

Also, the week that Heather was killed, she seemed to be on the schedule on the Sunday before, and not again until Friday...wonder if she was working weekends only and if so, was this intentional by manager and/or Heather, so that if TM was coming in, they would not encounter one another.

 

[momrids6]

Was TM allegedly going to TK whenever he worked there, in November and December? If so, that must have been beyond awkward...

Also, the week that Heather was killed, she seemed to be on the schedule on the Sunday before, and not again until Friday...wonder if she was working weekends only and if so, was this intentional by manager and/or Heather, so that if TM was coming in, they would not encounter one another.

Heather Elvis worked for both the Titled Kilt at Broadway at the Beach and the House of Blues in North Myrtle Beach. http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/24788974/timeline-of-events-in-the-heather-elvis-case

Could she have been scheduled at TK's around her HOB schedule?

 

[cluciano63]

Heather Elvis worked for both the Titled Kilt at Broadway at the Beach and the House of Blues in North Myrtle Beach. http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/24788974/timeline-of-events-in-the-heather-elvis-case

Could she have been scheduled at TK's around her HOB schedule?

Well she was evidently off from both places Mon-Thur that last week...apparently she was not working that much?

 

[sls9193]

Could SM have set up a P.O. Box at some point when TM wasn't with him? He and HE could have literally been writing notes back and forth. Just a thought.


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[Surfside]

The only part I question about the scenario in which a fight led TM to leave SM careless near 10th Avenue is whether TM's state of mind would allow her to leave SM alone (unsupervised) even if she was mad, drunk or both.

If I'm psycho jealous over my younger husband and his much younger lover and I've had my husband on a choke chain since we got back in town 6 days before, and I code lock his phone, chain him to the bed at night and accompany him to job sites... Am I really going to leave him on the side of the road somewhere? Or worse, at a club or bar?

Based on Tammy's other behaviors, I think she might hesitate to leave SM alone anywhere he might have the opportunity to call Heather, especially after he'd been "ditched" by TM. I agree, it's still a good theory though. If TM was drunk and irrational, anything's possible.

I'm thinking he went back out to use the pay phone, then Heather cut the call short to wrap up her date. He didn't know where her new apartment was, so he had no choice but to go back home where an enraged TM awaited.

Another problem I'm having with it, is if she kicked him out of the truck, how did he get home? That's a long walk, so unless he called a cab, or TM thought better of leaving him there and went back to get him, I'm not sure I can see this as a legitimate possibility.

Did you read this on one of the Heather threads or in MSM? Interesting.

I read it on one of Heather's threads here on WS. I can't remember which or who initially said it. I've GOT to get better at this. :facepalm: