The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

[wenwe4]

aWEsOMe!!! I had no idea. Is this box standard on all vehicle makes/models? What year was this available on the Pontiac Sunfire? (Can't remember what year hers was)

Toyota started putting black boxes (On Board Diagnostics - OBD) circa 1996 or 97. Of course those older models werent as sophisticated as ones made today . . . however, they did record everything that happenend when the check engine lights come on and keep that info for many hundreds of miles and continue to do so today. I imagine every car maker has incorporated this technology by now, especially if they can fight against accusations of failure of the car (ie running out of gas is not the car's failure but a subsequent reaction to the failuare of the driver to put gas in!)

 

[travelgal]

That is not about how smart she is. I am sure that GA told her if you did not do anything do not allow them to trick you into any confessions, Or you will never get out.
But Casey smart :nono: :nono: :nono: I think she is a :cheesehead2:

ITA Songline! Casey is not smart enough to plan an ingenious scheme or cover-up. SHE IS A LIAR plain & simple! I believe her lies allow her to feel in control of the situation. She is all about getting control of her life since she had very little control of her life under CA's thumb. Power & Control vs. Cindy!

 

[wenwe4]

Some of the onboard computers store this information, some do not. It depends on the year and make of the car as to how detailed the information might be. Obviously the newer cars store more onboard dignostics while the older models store troubleshoot codes for "major" events. I know more of the higher end models even store vehicle speed, say at time of crash. So I guess until we have more specifics on the year and model of the Pontiac we can only speculate.

I agree with you and I have only info on Toyota/Lexus/Scion - don't know about Pontiac and 1998 is really early for this technology . . . but, it might be worth asking the questions . . . .

 

[Imbackon]

snipped

Right, but the trunk was open on the 23rd when AL picked her up on the side of the road. In any event, KC noticed the smell on the 24th, when she texted Amy about the smell.

In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

 

[Rumpole]

Glad to help. I can only guess why she didn't follow-up on the Pontiac.

• She had no money
• She was concerned 'bout being tagged w/ the car in her control w/ the decomp smell (as you indicated)
• She was kinda glad to be rid of it (e.g. outta sight = outta mind)
• It gave her an excuse to borrow Tony's Jeep

Had Casey thought to distance herself from the car somehow ~6/19 or 6/20 and called 911 reporting a carjacking w/ Caylee in the seat...after the body had been disposed, yet, before the smell had become immediately noticeable...she' would have had a shot @ getting away with it, IMHO.

After the decomp smell began ramping up...the car was a difficult liability. Casey seemed to consistently approach challenges w/ a defer & delay strategy.



Well...some independent information gives us a reasonable case to make for the chase happening 6/29, IMHO. This one is easy for LE to resolve, IMHO. "So...happened months ago, eh? OK...lets just get THOSE EPass records. I'm sure that'll take care of it...won't it?"

One thing I would add to the list is:
KC's transport problem solved temporarily with use of AL jeep and then Amy's car. Getting the Pontiac less of a priority.

 

[travelgal]

I have not read all thru this thread, so if it's been brought up before then please forgive this post. Has anyone inquired about the "black box" on board the Pontiac? I know the computer logs everything and keeps that info stored for hundreds of miles. The Pontiac Service Dealerships have diagnostics that can determine when the car ran out of gas, what was happening at the time, what has happened since, how many miles it's been since the last oil change, etc. Also, if Pontiac is the same as Toyota, the On Board Diagnostics can actually tell what a car was doing (ie: turning, accelorating, how fast, etc) if the owner claims something failed on the car to cause an accident. The mechanics at the dealership do not have access to that info, but the Manufacturer does and can provide detailed info. Wonder if LE brought in a Pontiac expert?

WOW! Very interesting, wenwe4! I didn't know that kind of data can be found right on the car and cars have "black boxes" ?? That could provide a lot of info I would think. (I know nothing about vehicles other than the basics.)

 

[wenwe4]

WOW! Very interesting, wenwe4! I didn't know that kind of data can be found right on the car and cars have "black boxes" ?? That could provide a lot of info I would think. (I know nothing about vehicles other than the basics.)

There's a possiblity of a lot of info, but no guarantees. I know the OBD is able to be read by another computer at the specific manufacturers dealerships. For instance, Toyota mechanics can plug into toyota cars with their diagnostic computer and they will receive code. After receiving the code data, the dealerships are the only ones who have the actual "code book", a Mom & Pop Mechanics shop could only identify a few codes but not all of them. That's why smaller shops end up throwing parts on one after the other because they only get a little bit of data, like fuel probleem, but not the actual info on which part in the fuel system is not working. Even the dealerships are ONLY able to diagnose when the check engine lights come on. Where the manufacturer has all of the codes for all of the data that is stored on black box, including how far the seat was away from the steering wheel, what adjustments the mirrors are set at, what the temp was in the cab and for the engine, etc. . . .

 

[BondJamesBond]

snipped for space by me.......

I have been wondering about this supposed car chase since it came out in GA's interview with LE. Now, with the new information I have to wonder, if CA was in TL's jeep when GA gave chase, how would the E-Pass records verify it was this particular chase and not just GA driving in his normal course of activities? I can understand if CA's car was also involved, then both records could be verified as to the time they BOTH went through the toll booth at approximately the same time on the same date, but did TL have an E-Pass account? If not, how could this chase scene actually be verified to have occurred on the 29th (or any date following the disappearance)?

Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed​

 

[natsound]

In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

Yes she poured the gas herself, but he stood right by the gas cap on her car. IIRC he says he might have been able to see into the corner of the trunk, but he didn't pay much attention. He was close enough to smell something.

 

[RR0004]

There's a possiblity of a lot of info, but no guarantees. I know the OBD is able to be read by another computer at the specific manufacturers dealerships. For instance, Toyota mechanics can plug into toyota cars with their diagnostic computer and they will receive code. After receiving the code data, the dealerships are the only ones who have the actual "code book", a Mom & Pop Mechanics shop could only identify a few codes but not all of them. That's why smaller shops end up throwing parts on one after the other because they only get a little bit of data, like fuel probleem, but not the actual info on which part in the fuel system is not working. Even the dealerships are ONLY able to diagnose when the check engine lights come on. Where the manufacturer has all of the codes for all of the data that is stored on black box, including how far the seat was away from the steering wheel, what adjustments the mirrors are set at, what the temp was in the cab and for the engine, etc. . . .

I think the car may have been too old a model...but I also know very little about cars.

 

[natsound]

In the interview with Tony where he talks about this event, he specifically says that KC poured the gas herself and he was not that close to the trunk nor did he see much into the trunk.
I am at work, so can't source the info now.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...verypageslazzaro/1/lg/3846-3901-1_Page_26.htm

Here's the link. Start on page 26. The only strange thing KC did was insist on pouring the gas herself, and her trunk was actually closed when she poured the gas, but she opened it back up to put the gas cans in the trunk, and TonE never saw more than a corner of the trunk lining.

 

[RR0004]

Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed​

Is this the chase GA denies having happened in June?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Is this the chase GA denies having happened in June?

At first he insisted it happened, although he wasn't quite certain of the timing. He thought it was around the time of the gas can incident (6/24), but, wasn't sure. That is why he offered that the EPass records could be used to pinpoint the date and verify that it happened. He was so emphatic that he went to LE and told them that even though Cindy wouldn't corroborate his story - it really did happen.

More recently, G&C are denying this happened in June...opting for it being months earlier.

 

[Rumpole]

At first he insisted it happened, although he wasn't quite certain of the timing. He thought it was around the time of the gas can incident (6/24), but, wasn't sure. That is why he offered that the EPass records could be used to pinpoint the date and verify that it happened. He was so emphatic that he went to LE and told them that even though Cindy wouldn't corroborate his story - it really did happen.

More recently, G&C are denying this happened in June...opting for it being months earlier.

George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

 

[BondJamesBond]

George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

 

[Rumpole]

IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

:clap:

Ok!
You got the job.
You do the closing arguement for the Prosecution.:woohoo:

 

[reeseeva]

George and Cindy both denied it strongly in their respective depositions. Made a point of denying it and for once both had the same new story. I wonder why?

Is there something very important that it points to if the event happened as we thought? Why do they feel the need to deny it?

It doesn't fit with the rest of the Avalanche of lies they have concocted: :furious:

IMHO..."a chase" is evidence of Casey's willful evasive actions that were characteristic of her behaviour. Cindy's MySpace epistle...Lee's club-caper...George's chase...

They will rehearse and rehearse, and perjure themselves, whatever it takes!

Casey was eluding every single member of the family, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Why? Why did Casey flee? What did she have to hide?

 

[MysticOne]

Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed​

Wow, WSers TOTALLY ROCK, you leave no stone unturned and no question unanswered.

Thanks for the great info! :clap:

 

[CBTampa]

Great question, MysticOne. The details are on the EPass thread, but, to answer here from memory, JWG checked the tollbooths that George went through 6/29AM and...

a) they matched the route George gave in his account of the chase, and
b) the calculated rate of speed for George (distance between booths / timestamp differences when passing through them) resulted in something like 86mph driving speed​

What date was on the EPass records?

 

[CBTampa]

What date was on the EPass records?

Never mind...I see the date now after re-reading your post.