The Pontiac - "Revisted" #1

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I think that not reporting a missing child for 31 days gives a body enough time to decompose; washing the pants and not giving the search team a garment of Caylees gives the body more time to decompose; so that evidence will become harder and harder to find.
YES I DO THINK the "A"s helped in postponing the finding of better evidence.
But I also think that it is very possible that Casey was dancing to somebody Else's tune; could it be PB maybe, could it be that someone is after PB and Casey was the victim of it maybe. Still looking... have not made up my mind yet.

So maybe California copy Cat is worse then Casey. :confused: donknow!

This is getting old. Unless there is proof that PB was involved, I think its coming very close to slandering this person. Otherwise, take it to the Rumors thread in the parking lot in order to flesh out your theory.
 
The Calif. copycat mom is not a true psycho-socio-path like KC is. LE wore her down and she fessed up. No comparisions can be made IMHO.

True we haven't been privey to any one single "smoking gun" piece of eviedence YET, but I am highly impressed with Orlando's LE and continue to have Faith that they have at least one.

Hmmm.. wonder what would have happened if KC had tried to make it look like a carjacking etc and called 911 that night. Wonder if police could have worn her down at that time... fresh off the crime?
 
Attempting to maneuver back on-topic...there seems a chance IF Casey doesn't go w/ the Cindy-did-it defense...she'll go with the ZFG-took-Caylee-at-JBPark story. That will have Casey's defense team explaining that ZFG went to great lengths to frame Casey by choosing the Suburban disposal site...and planting some decomp fluid & hair in the Pontiac whilst it sat at Amscot...no Amscot surveil tapes to show the jury ZFG wasn't there...no 'real' ZFG that couldn't be in multiple places at once (IOW...one that would hafta provide an alibi to any physical witness sightings - boogey-ZFG can materialize anytime & anywhere she's needed :beamup:) :rolleyes:.

FWIW...IIRC, the California mother cracked and took LE to the body.

snipped

Does KC need to point the finger at anyone? Can defense simply go with the "prove our client did it" defense instead of "we think this or that person did it" defense? OJ was looking for the "real murderer" :)rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) for years, before he went to jail for armed robbery...
 
This is getting old. Unless there is proof that PB was involved, I think its coming very close to slandering this person. Otherwise, take it to the Rumors thread in the parking lot in order to flesh out your theory.
Pass me up
 
Carrying the following post over from another thread as it is relevant speculation as to why & how the Pontiac was in temporary storage @ Amscot...

I think Casey definitely wanted to get the Pontiac also.I'm not going with the theory that she wanted it to get towed or stolen.But, was it left there on purpose that day so she could borrow TONE's and because she had to take him to the airport and she didn't want him in her car for obvious reasons.Did she have unfinished business? Things left in the car? or is this simple she obviously needed a car.??

That's absolutely brilliant, WAISI! :clap:

  • Casey knew Tony didn't like her driving his Jeep GC
  • Casey KNEW <6/27 he'd EXPECT her to drop him @ the airport 6/30AM
  • Casey HAD to come up with a way NOT to take Tony to the airport in the Pontiac owing to the smell & he'd want to put his stuff in the trunk (no body, just smell)
  • Casey had to ENSURE the Pontiac alibi to Tony would jive with her not retrieving the Pontiac <6/30, hence, she tells Tony its broken-and-Dad'll-get-it vs. outta gas. Casey may run it outta gas just to ensure it won't start if Tony wants to try it himself when he rescues her 6/27.
  • Casey didn't rush to gas up the Pontiac before 6/29 since she didn't want it back until 6/30 and her story to Tony was that George would handle it, so, she must've given him some story about needing his Jeep 6/29AM to go get something...she couldn't enlist his help for gas cans again...that would've busted her story.
Casey's plan didn't account for Amscot paying attention to the car.

Brilliant, Whyamisointerested, absolutely brilliant! I'm carrying this post over to the Pontiac thread for convenience. :bowdown:

I thought it would be good to put WAISI's observation and Bond's added detail in some timeline perspective.

June 20 - The smell of decomp might have been noticeable to a small degree in the trunk, which may have prompted KC to attempt to clean the trunk when she backed into the garage at her parents that day. It is likely the smell had not yet become noticeable in the passenger compartment, and the reasons why will become apparent below.

June 21 and June 22 - Based on pings, it appears KC never left Tony's and therefore would not have noticed any change in the smell of the car, because she did not use the car.

June 23 - TL was near the front passenger side of the Pontiac as KC poured gas into the car. KC was between him and the trunk. When KC opened the trunk to put the cans away TL turned to go shut the tailgate on his Jeep, walking away from the car. TL notes that KC made no attempt to keep him from the trunk, the only odd thing being (in his mind) that she wanted to pour the gas herself.

The fact that she let him near the car leads me to believe no smell had yet permeated the passenger compartment. Also, it seems likely that KC opened the trunk for the very first time since June 20 when she put the gas cans away, likely receiving a hefty waft of decomp in the process. :yuck: KC dodged a bullet because Tony had begun to walk away and was "shielded" by gasoline fumes between him and the trunk. :whistle:

June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

I think WAISI's initial observation that KC had to ditch the car somewhere due to the smell so that she did not have to use it to take AL to the airport still holds. To me, she begins formulating the plan the afternoon of the 24th or sometime on the 25th. :idea:

Knowing she only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, she was pretty confident :snooty: she would run out by the evening of the 29th, thus avoiding using the car the morning of the 30th. After running out she would need to get the car back after taking Tony to the airport.

I don't think KC had things completely worked out in her mind, but it seems her first instinct was to enlist Amy's help to get gas for the car. This meant she had to explain the smell in advance so as not to surprise Amy :eek: when they both showed up to put gas in the car, thus prompting two advance calls and text.

June 25 - Either on this day or possibly the 24th (while driving away from the 'rents after racing George to the trunk) KC tells Amy about a horrible smell in the car during a phone conversation. She blames it on her dad, who she claims ran over something and it got stuck to the car. She said the smell was coming from the engine, so clearly by this time it has entered the passenger compartment.

June 26 - In a second phone conversation, KC tells Amy the smell has gotten much worse. :sick:

June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

June 29 - Knowing she has to get the car she reverts to the original plan and enlists Amy's help. She texts Amy on Sunday and asks if she can borrow her gas cans, but Amy reminds her they are in storage. Seems nothing is going her way. :banghead:

June 30 - Not to be denied, KC shows up at Amy's and they go to Target around noon to get a gas can (with Amy's money, of course :thumb:). After Amy leaves for work KC drives to the Amscot to put gas in the car, but sees it is missing. :banghead:

What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

I am not convinced that KC breathed a sigh of relief when she saw the car was missing. She had to realize someone else had it and would eventually figure out what was causing the smell. I think this is what prompted her to make a second attempt at throwing Jesse under the bus.

July 1 - In the morning, KC leaves Andy F.'s and drives back to TL's apartment, where she stays for about 15 minutes - probably picking up some clothing. Then she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place because she does not have a key to Tony's. :liar: Lot's of driving around for someone who can't afford gas, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what her plan was, but it clearly started with seduction - leaving the bathroom door partly opened while she showered. Perhaps she was planning to steal something of value and place it at the crime scene after she'd finished bedding him, as has been speculated by many on this board. But Jesse did not fall for it, and luckily his roommate showed up soon after.

It is possible she actually did take something and plant it at the scene. KC pinged in an area consistent with the crime scene on two occasions during the evening of July 1: 7:15PM and 8:30 PM. In both cases she was there long enough to plant evidence. If she did plant something, whatever it was deteriorated by Dec. 11. :doh:
 
:help:
OK, I am taking meds for upper resp. infection, :sick: but can someone help me, pleeeeese?? I am lost, who is Andy F. and PB ???? Did I miss something when I was in a coma (not really, just felt that way!) ?? Please help me get up to speed on the growing list of players in this saga! :confused:
 
I think that not reporting a missing child for 31 days gives a body enough time to decompose; washing the pants and not giving the search team a garment of Caylees gives the body more time to decompose; so that evidence will become harder and harder to find.
YES I DO THINK the "A"s helped in postponing the finding of better evidence.
But I also think that it is very possible that Casey was dancing to somebody Else's tune; could it be PB maybe, could it be that someone is after PB and Casey was the victim of it maybe. Still looking... have not made up my mind yet.

So maybe California copy Cat is worse then Casey. :confused: donknow!

How does this relate to the Pontiac?
 
JWG's research on Casey's Activities June 30:

4:30 PM (approx)

  • Amy leaves for work
4:40 to 4:55 PM

  • KC drives to Amscot. May have left a few minutes earlier to fill gas cans if not done already. I cannot remember - whose car did she drive to Amscot? Tony's? If so, what was she going to do if she did find her car at Amscot, after using the cans to put gas in her car? Call Tony or Jesse to help her with that stinky car? Even if she had set the stage by letting Amy or others know that there was a "dead animal" on the undercarriage, there still would have been questions and suspicion about that smell in her car - particularly once everyone starts realizing that Caylee is missing. How was she going to explain that one? A "dead animal" on the undercarriage of a car doesn't reek that bad, trust me. So how would she have gotten her stinky car home without enlisting someone else's help. And didn't she leave her purse in the car as well? If she was wanting that car back with that "dead body" odor - she is one dumba$$ girl. (debbie)
4:55 PM

  • Arrives at Amscot, notices car is not there, keeps heading north on Goldenrod (this is lone ping to CID=2)
  • KC must be wondering what has happened to the car, but without missing a beat she pings Matt C. and invites him to Fusian. Possibly heading north past Crane's Landing made her think of him. First time all day she contacted him.
4:55 to 5:15 PM

  • Drives to JC Penney at Fashion Square, taking N. Goldenrod to University to S. Semoran to E. Colonial.
5:15 to 6:15 PM

  • At JC Penney. 6:10 PM $73.40 charge (page 1432). Purchase memento?
6:15 to 6:20 PM

  • Travel to Ric / Amy's
6:20 to 7:00 PM

  • Shower and get ready for a night at Fusian
7:00 to 7:15 PM

  • Travel to location E or SE of Blanchard Park for dinner. Possible destinations include a couple of Subways or Ale House at Waterford Lakes. Definitely in this area at this time, NOT at Blanchard Park. Likely location is Ale House.
7:15 to 8:00 PM

  • Eat dinner - Ale House ?
8:00 to 8:10 PM

  • Travel to Caylee site. ???????? I believe that she went back to that site where Caylee is. I have thought about that myself. I've wondered if that "Winnie the Pooh" Balloon that was laying at the site was left there by her when she went back to the site to "visit." (debbie)
8:10 to 8:25 PM

  • Visit Caylee site. Leave memento purchased at JC Penney? What was purchased at JC Penney? Does anyone know? (Debbie) Hardly seems focused on the purpose, as she texts repeatedly with Chris S. and then Clint H. during this time. ?????
8:25 PM to 8:45 PM

  • Travel from Caylee site to Target at Waterford Lakes - a round-about route.
  • North to University Blvd. - several roads possible.
  • East on University to N. Alafaya Trail - she is going by Jesse G.'s - a familiar and comforting person
  • South on N. Alafaya Trail
  • Park at Target
  • This is an odd route, but cell pings from tower near JG clearly show she drove clockwise around the tower!
8:45 to 9:00 PM

  • Shop at Target
  • At Target. 8:56 PM $7.49 cash (page 1432). Purchase ?
9:00 to 9:05 PM

  • Travel to Fusian
9:05 to Midnight

  • At Fusian
  • Frequent texts with Andy F., who lives in Bithlo area.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3015019&postcount=20

JWG's research of July 1 pings:

Midnight to 2:10 AM

  • At Fusian. Initially lots of texts with Tony and the "shot girl", later with Andy F.
2:10 to 2:25 AM

  • Drive to Andy F. parent's home
2:25 to 9:45 AM

  • At Andy F. parent's home (who is Andy F? I can't remember) (debbie)
9:45 to 10:15 AM

  • Drive to AL: Avalon Park Blvd to E. Colonial to N. Goldenrod to University Blvd.
10:15 to 10:30 AM

  • At AL's
10:30 to 10:40 AM

  • Drive to JG via University (pings noth side of "Caylee's tower" along the way)
  • Casey shows up at door at 10:39 AM (page 1522)

Respectfully snipped above. My questions and comments are in brown.

I also think she was driving around alot because TL didn't want her in his apartment when he was in class, or not at home. JMO
 
I thought it would be good to put WAISI's observation and Bond's added detail in some timeline perspective.

June 20 - The smell of decomp might have been noticeable to a small degree in the trunk, which may have prompted KC to attempt to clean the trunk when she backed into the garage at her parents that day. It is likely the smell had not yet become noticeable in the passenger compartment, and the reasons why will become apparent below.

June 21 and June 22 - Based on pings, it appears KC never left Tony's and therefore would not have noticed any change in the smell of the car, because she did not use the car.

June 23 - TL was near the front passenger side of the Pontiac as KC poured gas into the car. KC was between him and the trunk. When KC opened the trunk to put the cans away TL turned to go shut the tailgate on his Jeep, walking away from the car. TL notes that KC made no attempt to keep him from the trunk, the only odd thing being (in his mind) that she wanted to pour the gas herself.

The fact that she let him near the car leads me to believe no smell had yet permeated the passenger compartment. Also, it seems likely that KC opened the trunk for the very first time since June 20 when she put the gas cans away, likely receiving a hefty waft of decomp in the process. :yuck: KC dodged a bullet because Tony had begun to walk away and was "shielded" by gasoline fumes between him and the trunk. :whistle:

June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

I think WAISI's initial observation that KC had to ditch the car somewhere due to the smell so that she did not have to use it to take AL to the airport still holds. To me, she begins formulating the plan the afternoon of the 24th or sometime on the 25th. :idea:

Knowing she only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, she was pretty confident :snooty: she would run out by the evening of the 29th, thus avoiding using the car the morning of the 30th. After running out she would need to get the car back after taking Tony to the airport.

I don't think KC had things completely worked out in her mind, but it seems her first instinct was to enlist Amy's help to get gas for the car. This meant she had to explain the smell in advance so as not to surprise Amy :eek: when they both showed up to put gas in the car, thus prompting two advance calls and text.

June 25 - Either on this day or possibly the 24th (while driving away from the 'rents after racing George to the trunk) KC tells Amy about a horrible smell in the car during a phone conversation. She blames it on her dad, who she claims ran over something and it got stuck to the car. She said the smell was coming from the engine, so clearly by this time it has entered the passenger compartment.

June 26 - In a second phone conversation, KC tells Amy the smell has gotten much worse. :sick:

June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

June 29 - Knowing she has to get the car she reverts to the original plan and enlists Amy's help. She texts Amy on Sunday and asks if she can borrow her gas cans, but Amy reminds her they are in storage. Seems nothing is going her way. :banghead:

June 30 - Not to be denied, KC shows up at Amy's and they go to Target around noon to get a gas can (with Amy's money, of course :thumb:). After Amy leaves for work KC drives to the Amscot to put gas in the car, but sees it is missing. :banghead:

What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

I am not convinced that KC breathed a sigh of relief when she saw the car was missing. She had to realize someone else had it and would eventually figure out what was causing the smell. I think this is what prompted her to make a second attempt at throwing Jesse under the bus.

July 1 - In the morning, KC leaves Andy F.'s and drives back to TL's apartment, where she stays for about 15 minutes - probably picking up some clothing. Then she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place because she does not have a key to Tony's. :liar: Lot's of driving around for someone who can't afford gas, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what her plan was, but it clearly started with seduction - leaving the bathroom door partly opened while she showered. Perhaps she was planning to steal something of value and place it at the crime scene after she'd finished bedding him, as has been speculated by many on this board. But Jesse did not fall for it, and luckily his roommate showed up soon after.

It is possible she actually did take something and plant it at the scene. KC pinged in an area consistent with the crime scene on two occasions during the evening of July 1: 7:15PM and 8:30 PM. In both cases she was there long enough to plant evidence. If she did plant something, whatever it was deteriorated by Dec. 11. :doh:

Incredible post, JWG. I have long believed that activities between June 30-July 2 eventually convinced KC she was going to get away with murder. Let me add to your timeline...

After the times that you speculate she might have left evidence behind on the night of July 1, she goes to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place for the night, but leaves (presumably in Tony's Jeep) in the very early morning of July 2 (before 5 am) and drives off toward the area of the Anthony house again.

When she gets back to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place later in the morning of July 2 (at least by around 7 am but maybe earlier), she washes her clothes, then composes her Diary of Days poem (but doesn't post it yet), then, in the evening, drops by the tattoo place to make an appointment for the next day to declare the official start of her BELLA VITA.

IMHO, KC did something during that sleepless night of July 1 that made her believe she was "home free" even if--to stay on topic ;)--the Pontiac and all of the evidence therein had been taken out of her control. Perhaps she did leave some evidence she thought would point so obviously to Someone Else (Jesse?) that no one would ever think of smelling her car.

Did we ever find out what she bought at JC Penney at 4:17 pm on July 1?
 
When she gets back to JP/Ricardo/Amy's place later in the morning of July 2 (at least by around 7 am but maybe earlier), she washes her clothes, then composes her Diary of Days poem (but doesn't post it yet), then, in the evening, drops by the tattoo place to make an appointment for the next day to declare the official start of her BELLA VITA.

Did we ever find out what she bought at JC Penney at 4:17 pm on July 1?

Excellent analysis. Why do we believe she composed Diary of Days on July 2 but didn't post it?
 
Excellent analysis. Why do we believe she composed Diary of Days on July 2 but didn't post it?

We know the file was created July 2 from the computer forensics report (I don't have the link handy), and we know the date she posted it (July 7) from the Myspace printouts.
 
I have just got to revisit the smell of decomp, just to get it out of my head...

When this case first started and several people were saying that once you smell decomp you will never forget it and how distinguishable it is, being a former USAF med tech and prior to that a nurse's aide in a nursing home, I kept thinking that I knew I had been around several corpses, but couldn't remember the smell that everyone said was so unforgettable.

Anyway, about two months ago I went into a vacant house for "work purposes" (as Lee would say) and WHAMO!!! It hit me like a ton of bricks. The smell of decomp came flooding back to me and I knew it instantaneously! "It smelled like a d*mn dead body" in there. I did a little sleuthing of my own when I got home and sure enough, the house I was in that day belonged to a man who had died suddenly in his home and was not found for almost a month. I could not get that smell out of my nose for days.

I had to go back in the house a few days ago and this time it seemed even worse than before. I decided that it seemed worse because I have the visual of that man in my mind and I am so sad for his family, especially since I know that they had to go in and clear out all of his belongings (nosey neighbors told me that they brought a moving van and emptied it themselves). :(

Having been reaquainted with that smell, I am fully convinced that CA and GA knew immediately that Caylee was dead. There is no way in hello that they did not demand to know where she buried Caylee and it is exactly why they immediately started digging in their own back yard. They have been looking for a body since day 31.
 
i'm pretty sure this is a dense question but i have no answer so i'm gonna ask it anyway - why did casey need amy's (or anyone's) help to get gas?
 
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

My personal opinion is, she had no "ride" to get the gas, and didn't want to waste what money she did have on gas cans.
 
What if GA actually DID get a whiff of decomp the day that KC shoved the gas cans at him from her trunk??? Just a guess, but maybe that is exactly why he chased after her a few days later after spotting her at the house, which both he and CA now deny ever happened. Maybe he didn't want CA to know about the odor or his suspicions when he went to LE with the story of the chase. Maybe that's why he didn't want LE to mention the chase to CA. I think this has been mentioned before, but there has to be some very compelling reason why he has changed his story on this. It has to connect to something very incriminating against KC.

Another thought -- how did George know to bring gas cans when picking up the car from the towyard?? How did he know at that point that is was out of gas?? It's obvious because of the chase that the A's knew KC had been lying about her whereabouts. Had he already talked to KC about the car before he picked it up?
 
relax hercule, i didn't know she was flat broke over that period of time, i thought she was robbing people blind left and right.

OK
She was carefully watching her budget.

On the credit side of the ledger: steal food, GA gas, cash, credit cards Caylee's piggy bank etc
On the debit side: food/snacks when friends at work, sunglasses, shoes, tattoos etc.

An "investment" in an asset like a gas can not within budget.
 
Hi all :wave:

1) I'm THOROUGHLY enjoying all the sleuthin'...
2) Maybe there should be a new thread to sleuth out Casey's June-July expenditures/funding....:waitasec:
 
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