The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[logicalgirl]

Your story is of great interest to me. I've often wondered why some strong individuals manage to break away from patterns that they recognize as being destructive vitually on their own. Others, repeat the patterns even though they know they are wrong. Still others repeat patterns but don't seem to realize they are wrong but it's all they know. How does this work? Did you have other role models in your life? Where does your strength come from? Good for you.

I guess I might have to write you a book - but don't know if I could because even after all these years, it's still very difficult to talk about - but I can say my childhood was emotionally brutal - and I think even now I have many many scars. Even though my father died when I was five, I'd been extremely close to him, and he was steadfast in his love for me and showed it by always being there for me. I was classified as a "bright" child, and read constantly, plus school kept me grounded. I had a tight love with my brothers and sisters although I almost never actually saw them. My mother sent me one letter in 12 years, to let me know she was getting married again but she couldn't take me back, but never on birthdays, Christmas, etc. Foster kids are always outsiders, invisible people, not part of the family, on the outside looking in - it's hard to explain. So it was difficult for me to parent, because I had no roadmap to follow. I just knew how bad my life had been and could never let that happen to my girls, or to myself again. Obviously I wasn't good at close relationship, since I didn't really understand how they "worked" and trust was difficult. No, I didn't have anyone to count on, or to set an example, so I read. Dr. Spock was my hero - he was the current child expert at the time. I guess I instinctively knew kids needed routine, to eat well, be kept clean, taught to be honest - all those things. No doubt it was a huge struggle to understand it all. I asked my daughter not long ago what important things she learned from me (if any - haha) and she said the value of consequences, to have silly fun, to enjoy nature, and to be ferociously loyal to the people you love. She and I both know I made mistakes - I'm not a naturally physically affectionate person, and she knows why, and sometimes I was too strict, because I was afraid for them. Maybe that's it right there - I had rules and told them the reason for them. One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years.

 

[LambChop]

I guess I might have to write you a book - but don't know if I could because even after all these years, it's still very difficult to talk about - but I can say my childhood was emotionally brutal - and I think even now I have many many scars. Even though my father died when I was five, I'd been extremely close to him, and he was steadfast in his love for me and showed it by always being there for me. I was classified as a "bright" child, and read constantly, plus school kept me grounded. I had a tight love with my brothers and sisters although I almost never actually saw them. My mother sent me one letter in 12 years, to let me know she was getting married again but she couldn't take me back, but never on birthdays, Christmas, etc. Foster kids are always outsiders, invisible people, not part of the family, on the outside looking in - it's hard to explain. So it was difficult for me to parent, because I had no roadmap to follow. I just knew how bad my life had been and could never let that happen to my girls, or to myself again. Obviously I wasn't good at close relationship, since I didn't really understand how they "worked" and trust was difficult. No, I didn't have anyone to count on, or to set an example, so I read. Dr. Spock was my hero - he was the current child expert at the time. I guess I instinctively knew kids needed routine, to eat well, be kept clean, taught to be honest - all those things. No doubt it was a huge struggle to understand it all. I asked my daughter not long ago what important things she learned from me (if any - haha) and she said the value of consequences, to have silly fun, to enjoy nature, and to be ferociously loyal to the people you love. She and I both know I made mistakes - I'm not a naturally physically affectionate person, and she knows why, and sometimes I was too strict, because I was afraid for them. Maybe that's it right there - I had rules and told them the reason for them. One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years.

Life is always a test. You passed.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Oh, Lord, another one here. I got married at an extremely young age -16 - and had my first child at 17. Did NOT feel the example of parenting set by my own mother was one I wanted to follow.

I got myself a copy of Dr. Spock's book and gained a friend and teacher. I can remember having that book out at 3:00 am, reading the description of the childhood illnesses to determine which one my baby had. (It was measles - no vaccines in those days!)

I mourned when Dr. Spock's death was announced.

 

[logicalgirl]

Oh, Lord, another one here. I got married at an extremely young age -16 - and had my first child at 17. Did NOT feel the example of parenting set by my own mother was one I wanted to follow.

I got myself a copy of Dr. Spock's book and gained a friend and teacher. I can remember having that book out at 3:00 am, reading the description of the childhood illnesses to determine which one my baby had. (It was measles - no vaccines in those days!)

I mourned when Dr. Spock's death was announced.

Oh my god- me too - with the wet sheet around the baby sitting in the rocking chair at 3:00am, trying to bring a fever down when she had tonsilitis - I never thought anyone here would know who I was talking about - thank you! I was prepared to say Doctor Spock, not Spock from Startrek! That book was an absolute bible and a lifesaver.

 

[LambChop]

When my children were babies crib deaths were common. For the first year I'd get up in the middle of the night just to make sure they were breathing. My husband had lost two infant sisters and I had lost one sister who was only 6 weeks old. How someone can mistreat a child is beyond me.

 

[wenwe4]

I guess I might have to write you a book - but don't know if I could because even after all these years, it's still very difficult to talk about - but I can say my childhood was emotionally brutal - and I think even now I have many many scars. Even though my father died when I was five, I'd been extremely close to him, and he was steadfast in his love for me and showed it by always being there for me. I was classified as a "bright" child, and read constantly, plus school kept me grounded. I had a tight love with my brothers and sisters although I almost never actually saw them. My mother sent me one letter in 12 years, to let me know she was getting married again but she couldn't take me back, but never on birthdays, Christmas, etc. Foster kids are always outsiders, invisible people, not part of the family, on the outside looking in - it's hard to explain. So it was difficult for me to parent, because I had no roadmap to follow. I just knew how bad my life had been and could never let that happen to my girls, or to myself again. Obviously I wasn't good at close relationship, since I didn't really understand how they "worked" and trust was difficult. No, I didn't have anyone to count on, or to set an example, so I read. Dr. Spock was my hero - he was the current child expert at the time. I guess I instinctively knew kids needed routine, to eat well, be kept clean, taught to be honest - all those things. No doubt it was a huge struggle to understand it all. I asked my daughter not long ago what important things she learned from me (if any - haha) and she said the value of consequences, to have silly fun, to enjoy nature, and to be ferociously loyal to the people you love. She and I both know I made mistakes - I'm not a naturally physically affectionate person, and she knows why, and sometimes I was too strict, because I was afraid for them. Maybe that's it right there - I had rules and told them the reason for them. One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years.

respectfully BBM
You made a choice that KC did not! You knew you didn't want to repeat the mistakes your Mother made. You were able to identify where you "didn't want to go" but that doesn't give you a "roadmap" to get to where you want to be. What courage you possess! You took matters into your own hands to give your children a better life than you endured. You studied and worked hard to make sure your children were "safe" and your knew the world wasn't safe so it was up to you to make sure your protected your little ones. What you did even more so was make a commitment to your children that you would never abandon them, and it appears that you never have. You may have not been a "perfect" Mom, but kids just wanna know your will always be there for them no matter what. You gave your kids what you were never given. Congrats! You stopped the cycle!!!

 

[logicalgirl]

respectfully BBM
You made a choice that KC did not! You knew you didn't want to repeat the mistakes your Mother made. You were able to identify where you "didn't want to go" but that doesn't give you a "roadmap" to get to where you want to be. What courage you possess! You took matters into your own hands to give your children a better life than you endured. You studied and worked hard to make sure your children were "safe" and your knew the world wasn't safe so it was up to you to make sure your protected your little ones. What you did even more so was make a commitment to your children that you would never abandon them, and it appears that you never have. You may have not been a "perfect" Mom, but kids just wanna know your will always be there for them no matter what. You gave your kids what you were never given. Congrats! You stopped the cycle!!!

Thank You Wenwe4 - it touches me that you would say that. It's still very hard for me to talk about myself, but when we talk about the abuse of Caylee, of course I can't help it. What I'm really uncomfortable about is when friends sit around talking and hey I did this with my brothers and sisters or that with my parents or my parents are.....well of course I don't have those memories or experiences to talk about - so I've always been uncomfortable about that and really don't talk about myself a lot to anyone. And I had to take a leap of faith because several of you who have talked about your own experiences had already shared with the board.

 

[wenwe4]

Thank You Wenwe4 - it touches me that you would say that. It's still very hard for me to talk about myself, but when we talk about the abuse of Caylee, of course I can't help it. What I'm really uncomfortable about is when friends sit around talking and hey I did this with my brothers and sisters or that with my parents or my parents are.....well of course I don't have those memories or experiences to talk about - so I've always been uncomfortable about that and really don't talk about myself a lot to anyone. And I had to take a leap of faith because several of you who have talked about your own experiences had already shared with the board.

Thanks for leaping! I am so sorry for your losses but I (for one) am happy that you gave your own children those memories and experiences! KC did show some attempts at trying to be a better parent (ie: the parenting book open to the tantrumming page). She had options and resources and chose not to utilize them. You (on the other hand) created your own options and resources. You learned from not only your own mistakes but also many others mistakes. There are many paths to the top of the mountain and you forged your own path. KC could have done that but she lacked ambition, drive, a healthy relationship with her child (or anyone for that matter) and chose a quick and easy way out of her predicament - no matter the devastation left in her wake.

 

[logicalgirl]

Thanks for leaping! I am so sorry for your losses but I (for one) am happy that you gave your own children those memories and experiences! KC did show some attempts at trying to be a better parent (ie: the parenting book open to the tantrumming page). She had options and resources and chose not to utilize them. You (on the other hand) created your own options and resources. You learned from not only your own mistakes but also many others mistakes. There are many paths to the top of the mountain and you forged your own path. KC could have done that but she lacked ambition, drive, a healthy relationship with her child (or anyone for that matter) and chose a quick and easy way out of her predicament - no matter the devastation left in her wake.

That's what I find so sad about Casey and Caylee. I feel certain if Casey had the courage to break away from Cindy and find her own life with Caylee, she would have found help and support along the way. I don't understand mothers who don't love and protect their children - and your child will love you back unconditionally. I guess not every mother falls as madly in love with their children as I did - but wow - they missed the experience of a lifetime.
PS - my little darlings were no angels - just like most other kids - lots of challenges, lots of learning,

 

[logicalgirl]

before I quit hogging this thread.

I think the times I raised my children had a huge impact on me and us. Late sixties, seventies and eighties - my girls are 7 years apart and my first at 17 - those were hugely idealistic (and naive) times - we did want to change the world for the better. Their bedtime music as stuff like Cat Stevens, and Donavan, and didn't they learn the words to Country Joe and the Fish (eek), and Dylan, Joan Baez - Wilie Nelson, John Denver - all about the times they are a changing. I was anti-drug, and I had a different kind of baggage to rebel against, and I did by creating a life I wanted - even if I was a heck of a lot poorer than I'd have liked to be. Those were proud, stubborn days - but they were happy days for me and mine.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I guess I might have to write you a book - but don't know if I could because even after all these years, it's still very difficult to talk about - but I can say my childhood was emotionally brutal - and I think even now I have many many scars. Even though my father died when I was five, I'd been extremely close to him, and he was steadfast in his love for me and showed it by always being there for me. I was classified as a "bright" child, and read constantly, plus school kept me grounded. I had a tight love with my brothers and sisters although I almost never actually saw them. My mother sent me one letter in 12 years, to let me know she was getting married again but she couldn't take me back, but never on birthdays, Christmas, etc. Foster kids are always outsiders, invisible people, not part of the family, on the outside looking in - it's hard to explain. So it was difficult for me to parent, because I had no roadmap to follow. I just knew how bad my life had been and could never let that happen to my girls, or to myself again. Obviously I wasn't good at close relationship, since I didn't really understand how they "worked" and trust was difficult. No, I didn't have anyone to count on, or to set an example, so I read. Dr. Spock was my hero - he was the current child expert at the time. I guess I instinctively knew kids needed routine, to eat well, be kept clean, taught to be honest - all those things. No doubt it was a huge struggle to understand it all. I asked my daughter not long ago what important things she learned from me (if any - haha) and she said the value of consequences, to have silly fun, to enjoy nature, and to be ferociously loyal to the people you love. She and I both know I made mistakes - I'm not a naturally physically affectionate person, and she knows why, and sometimes I was too strict, because I was afraid for them. Maybe that's it right there - I had rules and told them the reason for them. One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years.

Your answer blew me away. Thank you for explaining what it felt like to be a foster child. "On the outside looking in" really paints a clear picture and I can understand why a child would feel that way because he/she knows it is a temporary situation.

bbm - I have read that a child's essence (not sure if that's the best word here but it's the only one I can think of now) is set by the time they are six years old (Don't quote me on that but it's a young age where some core aspect of oneself is either formed or not.). Sounds as if your dad made that happen for you. I'm sorry you lost him so young but happy to hear you maintain positive memories of him.

When you said you were considered a "bright child" I thought, "I knew it", as I had been thinking that you sound intelligent. I saw "logical" in your name and think logic is a sign of intelligence too. Your daughter gave you some nice words to hang on to - that's so nice.

Seriously, maybe you could/should write a book about what it feels like to be a child within the foster care system. I'm not sure there is a book on the subject and imo the topic should be open for discussion. That's probably another system that, although was started with good intentions, is in need of an overhaul.

P.S. All parents make mistakes imo. I know I do but can also say I'm sorry. For some reason I think that's important. God instructs us to be careful about alienating our children. To me that means admitting when I am wrong.

 

[Curious Me]

"One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years."

Logicalgirl, I'm so glad they did!

 

[logicalgirl]

Your answer blew me away. Thank you for explaining what it felt like to be a foster child. "On the outside looking in" really paints a clear picture and I can understand why a child would feel that way because he/she knows it is a temporary situation.

bbm - I have read that a child's essence (not sure if that's the best word here but it's the only one I can think of now) is set by the time they are six years old (Don't quote me on that but it's a young age where some core aspect of oneself is either formed or not.). Sounds as if your dad made that happen for you. I'm sorry you lost him so young but happy to hear you maintain positive memories of him.

When you said you were considered a "bright child" I thought, "I knew it", as I had been thinking that you sound intelligent. I saw "logical" in your name and think logic is a sign of intelligence too. Your daughter gave you some nice words to hang on to - that's so nice.

Seriously, maybe you could/should write a book about what it feels like to be a child within the foster care system. I'm not sure there is a book on the subject and imo the topic should be open for discussion. That's probably another system that, although was started with good intentions, is in need of an overhaul.

P.S. All parents make mistakes imo. I know I do but can also say I'm sorry. For some reason I think that's important. God instructs us to be careful about alienating our children. To me that means admitting when I am wrong.

Thanks for your very kind words, but just a quick note to clarify something - it wasn't that I as a foster kid thought it was temporary at all, I think I wasn't much different than most kids who are apprehended - it feels like forever - I guess it's because children don't feel time like adults do. It was the attitude of the parents I lived with and their children. They are a family unit, and many people take children in for a lot of reasons that don't have much to do with that child. They may be on a waiting list to adopt a child, it may be a "church" thing, it may be the $$$, or a need to "do good", but a foster child is never part of the family unit like a birth child. Those children often resent the new "addition" and if there is a problem, and the birth child said - she did blah blah, guess which one the parent believes? You are singled out by teachers, dragged off to charity events( I still remember the shame of having to stand up and be identified and one of the lucky children being helped) etc. No one asks - what would you like to wear, eat, do. Ever. If you don't behave you'll be sent to the Girls Residential School - which was kid's jail for delinquents. I hope things have changed out there -

 

[wenwe4]

The other day I heard a foster dad say to a teen in his home, "if you don't get your homework done, I am going to have to treat you like a foster kid instead of my own"! BTW - this is the only child living in that home. I wanted to hug the foster dad in that moment. The teen laughed and told me he hated being treated like foster so he was going to get his homework done right away. It is all about embracing relationships! Caring/loving unconditionally. That appears to be the main issue in the A family. I doubt that KC ever felt loved unconditionally, and that is why she responds in the ways she does - always testing the "unconditional love".

 

[logicalgirl]

Yes, Wenwe4, that's it exactly. That crazy emotionally tearing back and forth by Cindy and George just to me doesn't give me the feeling Casey had any emotional grounding at all.
And here's an interesting thing I've discovered. Casey has many behavioral patterns that can be attributed directly back to years with George and Cindy. I had so many foster parents that my core beliefs weren't shattered by years of one set of destructive behaviors. I listen to my friends talk about what a negative impact their parents had on them years and years after, and I think "huh?" - that was when you were a child - now you're an adult - just leave that stuff behind. But I'm not emotionally in bond like they are. And maybe that was the problem with Casey. She couldn't even see or perceive there was a different way. They say no (wo)man is an island. Well some of us got marooned on one, and viewed family life from a distance. Maybe that's what gives me the problem understanding why Casey couldn't just have taken Caylee, and stepped away from the life of her parents and started anew.
And before I truly get kicked off the board for so much OT, I believe the choices made for me, as difficult as they were to endure made me "the lucky one". To stay with my emotionally empty prescription drug addicted mother? I shudder to think of the outcome.

 

[doogiesgirl]

I guess I might have to write you a book - but don't know if I could because even after all these years, it's still very difficult to talk about - but I can say my childhood was emotionally brutal - and I think even now I have many many scars. Even though my father died when I was five, I'd been extremely close to him, and he was steadfast in his love for me and showed it by always being there for me. I was classified as a "bright" child, and read constantly, plus school kept me grounded. I had a tight love with my brothers and sisters although I almost never actually saw them. My mother sent me one letter in 12 years, to let me know she was getting married again but she couldn't take me back, but never on birthdays, Christmas, etc. Foster kids are always outsiders, invisible people, not part of the family, on the outside looking in - it's hard to explain. So it was difficult for me to parent, because I had no roadmap to follow. I just knew how bad my life had been and could never let that happen to my girls, or to myself again. Obviously I wasn't good at close relationship, since I didn't really understand how they "worked" and trust was difficult. No, I didn't have anyone to count on, or to set an example, so I read. Dr. Spock was my hero - he was the current child expert at the time. I guess I instinctively knew kids needed routine, to eat well, be kept clean, taught to be honest - all those things. No doubt it was a huge struggle to understand it all. I asked my daughter not long ago what important things she learned from me (if any - haha) and she said the value of consequences, to have silly fun, to enjoy nature, and to be ferociously loyal to the people you love. She and I both know I made mistakes - I'm not a naturally physically affectionate person, and she knows why, and sometimes I was too strict, because I was afraid for them. Maybe that's it right there - I had rules and told them the reason for them. One thing I definitely know for sure, angels watched over me for those years.

Oh logicalgirl.... reading your post -- IDK....I just understood. I guess the saying is, "I could relate". I am guessing from your post (as I started reading at yours), but I take it you were a foster child. I lived with my biological parents and take it from me....just because you came from your mother's body doesn't mean there will be no feelings of being "an outsider". I come from a family with many daughters and I suppose I just got lost in the shuffle. I have no memories of my mother being physically affectionate or of her spending time just talking (or playing) with me. Well, I have ONE memory of her reading to me alone. That's it. Emotional/psychological neglect can cause so many conditions/problems in a child. I don't think Caylee was physically abused but I am sure she was used as a pawn between grandmother and mother, and sure she was emotionally neglected by KC. We have no idea if KC played "mind games" on sweet little Caylee, but I rather think she did. How confused and frightened Caylee must have felt at times. It saddens me so to think of it. I think KC suffered her own abuse as a child.....I'm just not sure how to "label" it.

I've heard some say that emotional/psychological abuse leaves scars that last longer than physical abuse but I don't know if that's true. I'd say each, emotional/psychological, physical, and sexual leave leaves it's own mark, and personally I would think sexual would leave the worst scars. But that doesn't mean the others don't leave wounds that last a lifetime also and each takes that individual child onto a path that would never have been known or taken by that child if not for the abuse. Anyway.....your post touched me and I just wanted to tell you that. moo

 

[logicalgirl]

Thank you so much DoogiesGirl, and yes you are absolutely right - and see my last paragraph of the post above yours. I do think I was a "lucky one", compared to many who must stay with a birth parent. Heavy burdens but those must be much heavier than mine to set down.

 

[LambChop]

Thank you so much DoogiesGirl, and yes you are absolutely right - and see my last paragraph of the post above yours. I do think I was a "lucky one", compared to many who must stay with a birth parent. Heavy burdens but those must be much heavier than mine to set down.

I don't believe I have ever seen an article or a book about what it is like to be a foster child. Are there any handbooks out there for foster parents to read regarding looking after their foster child's emotional needs? Such as a do's and don'ts. Might do some parents good to read this type of information as well. KC appeared to be too detached from her child. Clearly no bonding ever took place between the two. Hard to believe KC never reflected that anger out onto her child. AL having to hold her from showing her anger at the hearing last month will not go unnoticed by the jury unless KC learns to control it. JMO

 

[Tulessa]

http://fosterfriendsnc.org/voices.asp

voices of foster children

 

[Tulessa]

And bring out the Kleenex for this one.

http://www.squidoo.com/lifeasafosterchild