The Remains Discovery "Daisy Chain"

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I don't see where Casey was intelligent enough to speak in any sort of code.....

Well, when you listen to their conversation they are clearly discussing something... else. I am not sure that "code" gives the correct connotation but it is certainly careful speaking... similar to what one might do to discuss an adult topic with children in the room. You know, instead of saying "I heard Suzie's friend Josh's parents are divorcing the father is drunk all the time and can't keep a job" you might say, "Hey, that friend that we talked about last Monday? You know who I am talking about? The one who we saw at Target over Christmas? Starts with a J? Well I understand that the father was let go from his job last week because he was having the same problem as Uncle Henry did a couple of years ago, when he worked for airlines? And like Aunt Lucille, the wife will probably get everything."

I think they were definitely trying to communicate about the location. It's not really code in the sense of "code words", but by using these references and convoluted speech to maintain the sense of KC's innocence. LA (I think) wanted to say, "Dmn it! Where is the body?" but she would have clammed up right away. So he acts like he is trying to help. And he is getting frustrated because he hasn't found it yet and needs more information so he keeps up the pretense hoping she might drop more references.

And, IMO, she did, and he was able to get the body found. Time will tell.
 
Oh...I almost forgot, after we had everything clear I'd look for some sign that the deal was done and our pact was solid.

caseyhighfive.jpg

Yeah...can't say I fully understand all of his actions. :waitasec: Going waaaay overboard on the good cop thing here.
 
I don't know yet if I buy the connection between Lee and the neighbor.

But something I remembered after reading your thoughts is that MR called his supervisor before calling the police after he made the final discovery.

Hello? Who would do that?

To me it gives credence to him being directed by his supervisor to do the search.

IMO, the supervisor, if a neighbor of the Anthonys or not, could have directed MR on his own hunch. Completely plausible.

It's policy, at some companies.
 
I posted the following piece of speculation yesterday evening but it kind of got swamped by a blizzard of other posts. I think it is interesting to stand back and see if we can trace the true "daisy chain" of information that led to the remains discovery, whether it be LP's theory or some other theory.

What follows is my theory - updated since I posted last night.


What we know is Kiomarie was interviewed at nearly 10PM on July 19. Kio grew up on Hopespring drive and her dad still lives there. Kio has a friend named Bailey who also lives on Hopespring very close to the Anthony's. Bailey had already spoken to Brian B. and learned he had spoken to LE about the shovel. So Kio and Brian get to talking about KC, and when Kio heard about the shovel, she starts thinking about the secret hiding area off Suburban. Bailey calls Brian and gets the detective's phone number, gives it to Kio, and Kio calls the detective. :clap:

Neighbors are obviously talking. It probably does not take long for word to spread about Kio's interview and suspicions about the woods off Suburban. Maybe neighbors kind of are convinced that the area is a high-probability area, but are afraid to spend a lot of time searching themselves because 1) they are neighbors and 2) they figure LE will be able to do it. :waitasec:

So LE does an initial search of the accessible areas (some of it was too wet), and they come up empty. TES comes out and searches same area - no luck. Problem is - as we know today - the body was not quite in the spot Kio had pointed out. In fact it was several hundred yards away, up the street close to Hopespring. :bang:

Neighbors though remain convinced that area is a highly probable area. They know of Kio's story. They know of the shovel. They know TES and LE could not get into all areas. They are unconvinced the unsuccessful searches to date have ruled out the area. :snooty:

Now throw into the mix speculation that the MR's supervisor is also a neighbor of the Anthony's. Since neighbor's are talking and still think the body could be found up there, the supervisor speaks to his good buddy the MR and asks him to take a look when he does his route. He may even have assigned him specifically to do that route in August just because he is trusted. An official utility vehicle parked up in that area would not look suspicious. :angel:

So the MR takes a look and finds a suspicious-looking bag. We know he called it in three times, and the bag was not located:

  1. LE first says they searched and cleared the area (as noted above, they cleared an area several hundred yards away).
  2. They go out again (possibly with a dog) and find nothing. Unknown exactly were this was done, but probably still a hundred yards or so away. If one listens to the MR 911 calls, the location description is vague enough to allow LE to miss the spot.
  3. They go out a third and final time. MR points to the area and LE heads back, sees a big rattlesnake, and decides it might be best to come back later. Oh, and by the way, there is loads of garbage back there.
Fay comes in, floods the area, and no searches can be done until early November. Note that rumor has it Kronk was not on that route in Sept., Oct., or Nov., implying to me someone assigned to him that route to check things out. :eek:

This next bit of speculation is going to infuriate a lot of Lee haters here when they read what I am thinking. :scream: (I think Lee is getting a bum rap from the public).

Meantime, Lee, I believe, is not drinking the KC Koolaide the way Cindy is. He knows KC did something. He does not know the details, but has suspicions, and does his best to pull information from KC without raising her ire and having her shut him out. He loved Caylee and wants to know the truth. He gets enough KC code to believe her body is nearby, but again no details. :detective:

Lee becomes aware of Kio's and the neighbor's suspicions.
With what KC implied, the general location makes perfect sense. He knows LE and TES searched in that area but maybe they were not in the right spot. Maybe he is involved in lining up other silent searches, including that of the MR, or maybe he just hears about the MR's finding and subsequent failure of LE to locate the body. On the one hand he knows LE and others have searched and declared it clear - should trust that coming from LE, right?? On the other hand, the MR did say he found something. After Fay, this gets filed in the back of his mind.

Meanwhile, Lee loves his mom but feels she is in a deep denial over KC's crime. He knows - feels - KC did something to Caylee. While mom is stuck in the first stage of grief (denial), Lee is entering the second stage (anger). It shows as he tries to protect the parents he loves, and the public backlash is vicious. He starts to drop from public view. He does not want to get caught up in the maelstrom Cindy is creating. :(

In early Nov. TES finally can get out and do a search. But they find nothing and pull out earlier than expected.

Bewildered, Lee talks to the PI working for his parents.
I speculate the conversation went something like this:


Lee convinces PI Casey that Caylee is dead and they need to look for a body. So the two PIs hike up there two times to look and video-tape, and PI Casey goes up another two times alone. The information they have is that Caylee's body was found in August, but not recovered. They find nothing. PI Casey calls Lee several times and asks if he can help nail the exact spot down, because they are not seeing anything but thick brush and unrelated trash. Given only 10 minutes of video were recorded, none of the searches may have been very long.

They are very close, but not quite in the right spot, and they fail to locate the remains. They report back to Lee: nothing. :banghead:

Nejame catches wind that Lee sent the PIs up there and he decides he has had enough. Time to bail out. It appears the Anthony's privately think the child is dead but publicly berate LE for not searching for a live Caylee. Well, Lee believes she is dead, and probably George does too, but Cindy won't admit it. He's had enough and resigns. :furious:

At this point Lee is thinking: LE looked several times. TES looked several times. My PI looked several times. No one could find the bag. The only one who ever saw the bag was the MR. In order to put this thing to rest, we need him to look one more time.

Lee gets word back to the supervisor neighbor and tells him the PI's could find nothing.
Can we get the MR back out there? So the supervisor reasigns the MR to the route and asks him to see if the bag is still there. The route is scheduled for the 11th of every month, so they have missed the November slot, but he'll be assigned to the route on Dec. 11.

The MR goes back on the route, finds the bag, sees the skull...and Caylee is brought home. :blowkiss:
Now one of the PIs brags to his good buddy LP about the trips they made to that same area and found nothing, and the circus begins again.

The key piece of the above puzzle is confirming or denying a link between the neighbors and the MR. The "supervisor as neighbor" is one possible link. Another possible link is "MR chats up neighbor". But a link needs to exist for the above theory to make sense.

The daisy chain, as I see it, is:

  1. Kio - Bailey - Brian B. - Kio - detective - TES. Failure to find the remains starts a second chain.
  2. Lee - neighbors - supervisor - MR - LE. Failure to find the remains starts a third chain.
  3. TES. Failure to find the remains starts a fourth chain.
  4. Lee - PI - Lee - supervisor - MR. Success.
IMHO :rolleyes:

I love this post! It is logical AND well thought out. And just an all-around fun read! The way you wrote this out makes the daisy chain theory seem real! Thank you!
 
media links thread, post #122 dated 8/15, DC visits KC on 8/8.
She also saw another PI on 7/25, EP.
Can anyone connect DC with MR between 8/8 and 8/11?
I read that she visited with two PI on 8/14, critical date, but cannot find that post or thread now. I'm sure I saw it on her jailhouse visitor's log. Right after this date, LE locks the log, and video recordings of visitors with KC. They also lock the jailhouse video with her parents on 8/14, first meeting since Caylee's birthday.
 
I'm sorry, what do you mean "locked the log" and "locked the video recordings"? You mean they were available to the public and then were not?
 
Good Question- why was the meter reader in that spot to begin with- theres no water meters in those woods or houses on that block- Is there?

Long time ago, I worked for a water company as a meter examiner. There are inside meters and outside meters in houses. Most homes today have inside meters with a remote reader on the outside. so the meter reader does not have to go inside the home. Nonetheless, most meter readers do a lot of walking around the neighborhoods, house to house, to get their readings. Also, big places, such as schools, restaraunts, apartment complexes, have what are known as "large meters" which are very often housed at a distance from the actual building and are in an underground vault. To read these meters the MRs have to walk down the street or road, pull the cover off, and look down into the vault with a flashlight to read the numbers. I do not know if that is the case on Suburban for the school or not.

Geraldo said last night that information from "public" records says that MRK was, in fact, on the same route in November even though we had heard otherwise.
 
Since my earlier post today, I have read through 25 pages of the PI thread, watched NG and also watched the raw video of JH & his lawyer with Kathi B.

Nowhere that I can see has anyone questioned what Nick Savage did following LP's call on 15th - 17th Dec. I would imagine that LE/FBI have been keeping an extremely watchful eye and an even keener ear on JH and DC. The fact that LP is only now announcing the the phone call on national television leads me to believe he has been given the nod by someone that it's OK to bring it into the public domain. I'm certain that in the time that has elapsed LE/FBI have a lot more information regarding who said what to who and when. Am I the only one that thinks this?
I think this daisy chain gets stronger by the day.

I am with you on this. I strongly feel that LP knows a lot more than we think and he has to keep silent for now. He may throw some bone's out there to see who will come out and fetch them. LP may not be a liberty to say all now, but I feel once this case goes to trial we will understand why he was brought to Orlando to bond Casey out...people tend to forget, it was not his idea to come bond her out, he was requested to come out by two individuals. With that said, his theories may be off at times, just like most of our theories. He is working with what ever information he is given at the time...that doesn't make him any less creditable or doing this for the media attention or money. He had all of that before this case came along. "JMO"
 
I don't think there was any conspiracy either. I think rumours, theories and speculations were circulating and somehow reached the ears of the MR (possibly via his supervisor) and the A's P.I. (possibly via LA or any of the A's neighbours) and this led to interest in the wooded area and decisions to go take a look and satisfy their curiosity.

I really don't think that if the P.I. had been told specifically that Caylee's remains were in that area, that he would be searching it in broad daylight, telling another P.I who was apparently not his partner, or allowing him to video the search.

Well, to search it in the dark would have required bright lights and that would surely have brought attention. They had to search during daylight.
 
this is my way of thinking about the daisy chain started way back in July.
And I feel it started with kc to la then went on from there (neighbors curiosity like us, etc)

Are the PIs allowed to meet with inmates in private (like an attorney) or are their visits recorded ?
 
SNIP

My theory=Casey-JB-DC-?-supervisor-MR or
Casey-LA-DC-JB-?-MR.
Question-What's in it for MR?
What's in it for the supervisor?
Why would they get involved at all, and not go straight to LE?

Why would the supervisor involve the MR?
Answer-the relationship between ? and the supervisor or the relationship between ? and the MR. yep, jmo fwiw.
I know MR attempted to tell LE in August, however, he could have just gone to them with whatever information he may have learned. He didn't have to go find her himself.
Oh and wasn't he suppose to come out and talk about it after the first of the year? Where is he?
We don't know about ? or who that is, yet.....

Bolded by me

GREAT ?s :clap:
 
IMO, here he is speaking of the opportunity to recover Caylee alive from whomever is holding her. The death of the hope for a safe return.

I guess I need to go back and listen to that - as a medical transcriptionist for many years, I am always seeing something different transcribed on TV than what was actually said. This may be one of those times.
 
from jwg's first post :

what we know is kiomarie was interviewed at nearly 10pm on july 19. Kio grew up on hopespring drive and her dad still lives there. Kio has a friend named bailey who also lives on hopespring very close to the anthony's. Bailey had already spoken to brian b. And learned he had spoken to le about the shovel. So kio and brian get to talking about kc, and when kio heard about the shovel, she starts thinking about the secret hiding area off suburban. Bailey calls brian and gets the detective's phone number, gives it to kio, and kio calls the detective.

sorry, hope you don't mind, i snipped and bolded....

What keeps getting me in all of this is.....kio meet with le in the school parking lot and did an interview and basically showed where the "hang out" was.
All these pi's keep talking about a "friends tip" about "the area"....if they're talking about "kio's tip", she told/showed le the real area back by the school. If i understand correctly, the area where caylee's remains were found is quite a bit away from that area behind the school - although not really that far.
I guess i keep questioning that area where casey and hoover were looking/videoing....it's not the area kio talked about to le. That's what makes me really question "what exactly were they doing right there" ???


exactly!!!
 
If the MR had no ties to the Anthony's or to the neighbors, how would he know about Kio's interview? The first document dump came over a month after the MR searched, actually a month after Fay.

I'm pretty sure this was the talk of the neighborhood even before the first doc dump.

Kio it seems talked to her parents plus several of the neighbors.

Strange to me that when Kio first hears Caylee is *missing*.....she says well, I know the area that KC would BURY something.

But I found lots about Kio statement strange.
 
I'm pretty sure this was the talk of the neighborhood even before the first doc dump.

Kio it seems talked to her parents plus several of the neighbors.

Strange to me that when Kio first hears Caylee is *missing*.....she says well, I know the area that KC would BURY something.

But I found lots about Kio statement strange.

And wasn't it Kio who LE had a hard time making contact with? Seems if I remember correctly they left messages for her to call and she didn't get back to them promptly and then made excuses. She had some wierd story about knowing two different Casey's and got them mixed up during the interview. I found her interview and the things she said to be very ODD (putting it mildly). I don't think she was involved with Caylee's death, but she set off a big hinky bomb with me.

Could this "daisy chain" linking the MR that LP speaks of be innocent and as simple as MR being tipped off about knowing where the body might be located, but not realizing he was being the one set up to find it? I have no idea what the story is, but could it be that he was being fed information (through talking with the neighbors in the area...including his supervisor) and that his curiosity got the best of him and he just couldn't stay away from the area and HAD to keep looking? I just find it hard to believe that he was "IN" on anything unscrupulous. What would be the reason? He was aware that he couldn't receive any reward money. Just thinking out loud here...

:newbie:
 
And wasn't it Kio who LE had a hard time making contact with? Seems if I remember correctly they left messages for her to call and she didn't get back to them promptly and then made excuses. She had some wierd story about knowing two different Casey's and got them mixed up during the interview. I found her interview and the things she said to be very ODD (putting it mildly). I don't think she was involved with Caylee's death, but she set off a big hinky bomb with me.

Could this "daisy chain" linking the MR that LP speaks of be innocent and as simple as MR being tipped off about knowing where the body might be located, but not realizing he was being the one set up to find it? I have no idea what the story is, but could it be that he was being fed information (through talking with the neighbors in the area...including his supervisor) and that his curiosity got the best of him and he just couldn't stay away from the area and HAD to keep looking? I just find it hard to believe that he was "IN" on anything unscrupulous. What would be the reason? He was aware that he couldn't receive any reward money. Just thinking out loud here...

:newbie:

Yep, there was lots strange (to me) about Kio's interview, & she did recant some things she said, & never did up her phone records.....

Funny I just re-read her interview, she not only talks of the 'secret place' where the kids hung out....also says they hung out in the woods across the street from the school, & this would be the area of the 'remains site'.

IDK if the MR was 'fed' any info, but I'm sure, you could walk up & down the street & 'hear' lots of info from the neighbors......& Kio did talk to neighbors/family.
 
It's policy, at some companies.

It may be policy at some companies, but he did not call his supervisor before calling 911 in August 3-times. It seems a little strange that he called his supervisor after actually finding the body in December.

I did read someone said "that he must of wanted his December report to be taken serious" and that is why he called his supervisor before calling 911. I would think they would of taken him serious when he say's he "found a human skull".
 
It may be policy at some companies, but he did not call his supervisor before calling 911 in August 3-times. It seems a little strange that he called his supervisor after actually finding the body in December.

I did read someone said "that he must of wanted his December report to be taken serious" and that is why he called his supervisor before calling 911. I would think they would of taken him serious when he say's he "found a human skull".

Well, what if the August calls were made on his own suspicions, which he later voiced to his supervisor out of frustration with LE. Then when the location becomes "known" to LA, the supervisor (and friend of the A's) tells MR to go look once more at the suspicious things and call him if he finds something. MR clearly wanted to remain anonymous, and I think the Anthony's wanted that too. Less messy if a random concerned citizen found the remains than if someone is going on a tip.
 
*snipped*

Interesting thread - as always - JWG, bravo!

I couldn't resist tossin' in on this question...

I'd write the following note on a piece of paper, "The only way I can help take care of the evidence is if you tell me where to find it. Draw me a map." I'd hand her this piece of paper when she was out on bond sittin' @ G&C's with me in private and watch her draw the map, maybe exchange some follow-up questions in writing...done.

Now...I'm not sayin' that's what happened, jus' couldn't resist the question. :)

BTW...didn't the SW after the body discovery collect some notebooks? :waitasec:


AHA! and "lower left" would mean the "lower left corner of the drawing i gave you"

i like it.
 

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