The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information

[Scottyboy]

Were the calls traced all with burner phones or was there at least one from the victims? If he was using the victims he probably wouldn't be able to use any internal voice changing. The killer IMO wouldn't take a chance using a service to call out for him. The only reason I'd want them to release the call is for the public to hear his voice. I'm sure someone would recognize it.

 

[Just K]

100% he is the radio host we discussed a few weeks ago. I'm not certain of him in 2002 being thin as my friend wasn't living on his block back then. Can you PM me some of the weird stuff you found? It may not be related to this case but it is very strange... I don't get the hush hush about what happened.

Done in 4 parts...I forgot to link a Youtube video about Baptism Debate...this where he introduces his "friend", the retired SCPD Homicide Detective. Just go to Youtube put in his name and Baptism Debate. It should be very easy to find.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi all! I'm posting this in the rumor thread because we have no evidence that the GB4, the AC4, and the Daytona Beach4 are connected.

I have been wondering why the killer has no known victims in 2008 and also why the GB4 all went missing in the Summer months. This led me to speculate that the person may travel and was away from LI in 2008. Because many New Yorkers travel to FL in the winter and spend summers in NY, I wondered if SK is one of those who migrate south in the winter and perhaps spent 2008 in FL to establish proof of residency there as FL has no state income taxes, IIRC, (unless it has changed). I have also considered that the SK travels up and down the East coast on business trips.

So that led me to review the Daytona4 to check for any dates in 2008. There were none but I found something interesting about the dates which I'll post with other info at the end of this post.

Then just for the heck of it I checked the dates of the AC4 and found those dates interesting also as it DOES make me wonder if this person travels the East coast and changes his MO with his location and the situation it provides to procure his victims. There were no AC victims in 2008.

Here is info on the victims.......

GB4-wrapped in burlap, possible asphixiation, all disappeared in summer

Maureen Brainard Barnes......last seen July 09, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy.............last seen July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman................last seen June 6, 2010 (6-6 is actually spring)
Amber Costello...................last seen Sept 2, 2010

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-20078763.html?pageNum=3&tag=contentMain;contentBody

AC4-All victims found in a ditch, strangled, no shoes or socks, all found in Fall, Nov. 20, 2006

Molly Dilts.........................last seen 10-07-2006
Barbara Brieder..................last seen 10-17-2006
Tracy Ann Roberts..............last seen 11-??-2006
Kim Raffo..........................last seen 11-19-2006

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-2825050.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

DB4-All victims found nude, killed by gunshot to the head. All murdered in Winter, 2005-2007.

LaQuetta Gunther..............killed.......12-24-2005.
Julie Green.......................killed........01-??-2006
Iwanna Patton..................killed........02-??-2006
Stacy Gage.......................killed........12-??-2007 (found in 2008)


http://www.news-journalonline.com/n...orial-to-serial-killer-victim-disappears.html

Where is 2008?

IF these case are connected, and I am not saying they are, then could the perp have undergone a 'life change' in 2008 that caused him to stop his killing? Did any of our usual suspects have a 'life change' in 2008?

Independently or collectively, it is bugging me that there are no known victims in 2008 in any of these 3 cases. It also bugs me that the victims were killed in groups of 4 on the East coast, it bugs me that each group of 4 were murdered in different seasons, it bugs me that each set of victims, ie, GB4, AC4, DB4, were murdered in a different manner, but the 4 victims in each location were murdered in the same manner. AND it bugs me that many of the collective victims were murdered on or around holiday seasons.

Just thinking outside the box. thoughts?

MOO

wm

 

[citylady]

Sitting for an Artist or photographer would be the perfect setting for putting a woman in a vulnerable position. There would probably be privacy and/or a studio space. When I think of the SK strangling the women, I can't help but think that he poses them or asks them to do something that requires them to look downward. I keep thinking of the woman whose toenails were partially painted. I think when a woman is painting her toenails that she would be in a vulnerable position. (EEK...been avoiding saying that but then I think of the missing feet, the barefooted women in AC and the woman in AC and the odd guy with the interest in her shoes, etc. etc.)

This is very plausible, and I do seem to remember reading somewhere (on WS?) that investigators believe the SK is photographing something post mortem as well? If anyone recalls this theory (or part of a theory) could you post a link? Thanks, and as always I am reading so many of you and learning so much.

This case hits particularly hard as I went to high school very near by Jones and Gilgo beaches, and spent many happy hours on several of those beaches all the way to Fire Island.

 

[KateNY]

Hi all! I'm posting this in the rumor thread because we have no evidence that the GB4, the AC4, and the Daytona Beach4 are connected.

I have been wondering why the killer has no known victims in 2008 and also why the GB4 all went missing in the Summer months. This led me to speculate that the person may travel and was away from LI in 2008. Because many New Yorkers travel to FL in the winter and spend summers in NY, I wondered if SK is one of those who migrate south in the winter and perhaps spent 2008 in FL to establish proof of residency there as FL has no state income taxes, IIRC, (unless it has changed). I have also considered that the SK travels up and down the East coast on business trips.

So that led me to review the Daytona4 to check for any dates in 2008. There were none but I found something interesting about the dates which I'll post with other info at the end of this post.

Then just for the heck of it I checked the dates of the AC4 and found those dates interesting also as it DOES make me wonder if this person travels the East coast and changes his MO with his location and the situation it provides to procure his victims. There were no AC victims in 2008.

Here is info on the victims.......

GB4-wrapped in burlap, possible asphixiation, all disappeared in summer

Maureen Brainard Barnes......last seen July 09, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy.............last seen July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman................last seen June 6, 2010 (6-6 is actually spring)
Amber Costello...................last seen Sept 2, 2010

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-20078763.html?pageNum=3&tag=contentMain;contentBody

AC4-All victims found in a ditch, strangled, no shoes or socks, all found in Fall, Nov. 20, 2006

Molly Dilts.........................last seen 10-07-2006
Barbara Brieder..................last seen 10-17-2006
Tracy Ann Roberts..............last seen 11-??-2006
Kim Raffo..........................last seen 11-19-2006

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-2825050.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

DB4-All victims found nude, killed by gunshot to the head. All murdered in Winter, 2005-2007.

LaQuetta Gunther..............killed.......12-24-2005.
Julie Green.......................killed........01-??-2006
Iwanna Patton..................killed........02-??-2006
Stacy Gage.......................killed........12-??-2007 (found in 2008)


http://www.news-journalonline.com/n...orial-to-serial-killer-victim-disappears.html

Where is 2008?

IF these case are connected, and I am not saying they are, then could the perp have undergone a 'life change' in 2008 that caused him to stop his killing? Did any of our usual suspects have a 'life change' in 2008?

Independently or collectively, it is bugging me that there are no known victims in 2008 in any of these 3 cases. It also bugs me that the victims were killed in groups of 4 on the East coast, it bugs me that each group of 4 were murdered in different seasons, it bugs me that each set of victims, ie, GB4, AC4, DB4, were murdered in a different manner, but the 4 victims in each location were murdered in the same manner. AND it bugs me that many of the collective victims were murdered on or around holiday seasons.

Just thinking outside the box. thoughts?

MOO

wm

Great post.

Maybe if there were some in 2008, they just haven't been found as yet?

going by 'seasons'

missing season is...Spring
missing year of .... 2008

Location?

 

[BehindTheYellowTape]

There are accounts of this area having a history of violence in adherence to certain ritual requirements or quests for supernatural favor. Given the number of bodies in the area yet the differences in kill methods and dumping methods, I begin to wonder if there are multiple offenders but all related thorough some pagan belief system (no not saying Wiccans or any other specific group or system).

The above victim chart does bring to mind something. Many different systems hold the equinoxes as spiritually significant and as I understand it, for those that hold to the traditional requirements of sacrifices it is in the spring equinox that generally require no such sacrifices as it is a celebration of the proliferation of life.

Of course more information is required and this could be way off, but the recent chart does encourage at least some more scrutiny into the possibly. I wonder if that area would also reveal animal remains in somewhat unnatural conditons (ie choped, burned, posed, etc).

 

[Mountain_Kat]

100% he is the radio host we discussed a few weeks ago. I'm not certain of him in 2002 being thin as my friend wasn't living on his block back then. Can you PM me some of the weird stuff you found? It may not be related to this case but it is very strange... I don't get the hush hush about what happened.

Okay, I'm alittle lost. The "gruesome discovery" you posted about a few weeks ago...this was at the house of a local radio host? :waitasec:

Want to shoot me a pm with the details?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Hi all! I'm posting this in the rumor thread because we have no evidence that the GB4, the AC4, and the Daytona Beach4 are connected.

I have been wondering why the killer has no known victims in 2008 and also why the GB4 all went missing in the Summer months. This led me to speculate that the person may travel and was away from LI in 2008. Because many New Yorkers travel to FL in the winter and spend summers in NY, I wondered if SK is one of those who migrate south in the winter and perhaps spent 2008 in FL to establish proof of residency there as FL has no state income taxes, IIRC, (unless it has changed). I have also considered that the SK travels up and down the East coast on business trips.

So that led me to review the Daytona4 to check for any dates in 2008. There were none but I found something interesting about the dates which I'll post with other info at the end of this post.

Then just for the heck of it I checked the dates of the AC4 and found those dates interesting also as it DOES make me wonder if this person travels the East coast and changes his MO with his location and the situation it provides to procure his victims. There were no AC victims in 2008.

Here is info on the victims.......

GB4-wrapped in burlap, possible asphixiation, all disappeared in summer

Maureen Brainard Barnes......last seen July 09, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy.............last seen July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman................last seen June 6, 2010 (6-6 is actually spring)
Amber Costello...................last seen Sept 2, 2010

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-20078763.html?pageNum=3&tag=contentMain;contentBody

AC4-All victims found in a ditch, strangled, no shoes or socks, all found in Fall, Nov. 20, 2006

Molly Dilts.........................last seen 10-07-2006
Barbara Brieder..................last seen 10-17-2006
Tracy Ann Roberts..............last seen 11-??-2006
Kim Raffo..........................last seen 11-19-2006

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-2825050.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

DB4-All victims found nude, killed by gunshot to the head. All murdered in Winter, 2005-2007.

LaQuetta Gunther..............killed.......12-24-2005.
Julie Green.......................killed........01-??-2006
Iwanna Patton..................killed........02-??-2006
Stacy Gage.......................killed........12-??-2007 (found in 2008)


http://www.news-journalonline.com/n...orial-to-serial-killer-victim-disappears.html

Where is 2008?

IF these case are connected, and I am not saying they are, then could the perp have undergone a 'life change' in 2008 that caused him to stop his killing? Did any of our usual suspects have a 'life change' in 2008?

Independently or collectively, it is bugging me that there are no known victims in 2008 in any of these 3 cases. It also bugs me that the victims were killed in groups of 4 on the East coast, it bugs me that each group of 4 were murdered in different seasons, it bugs me that each set of victims, ie, GB4, AC4, DB4, were murdered in a different manner, but the 4 victims in each location were murdered in the same manner. AND it bugs me that many of the collective victims were murdered on or around holiday seasons.

Just thinking outside the box. thoughts?

MOO

wm

Great post! The groups of 4 have been bugging me for a long time too, WM. Especially the GB4 and the AC4.

Am I crazy, or didn't I read somewhere that HA has ties to Florida? :waitasec:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Yes he does, MK! He apparently works construction and has worked on LI, in AC and FL.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-2825050.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

[KateNY]

Hmm where was this HA in ..Spring 2008

 

[scandi]

This is very plausible, and I do seem to remember reading somewhere (on WS?) that investigators believe the SK is photographing something post mortem as well? If anyone recalls this theory (or part of a theory) could you post a link? Thanks, and as always I am reading so many of you and learning so much.

This case hits particularly hard as I went to high school very near by Jones and Gilgo beaches, and spent many happy hours on several of those beaches all the way to Fire Island.

How would investigators know that the SK is possibly photographing victims postmortem?

 

[citylady]

I believe it was to do with the wrappings or something else about the bodies that suggested staging for photography? I am reading back through everything and hopefully will find this - it just stuck in my mind..

 

[Clem Snide]

Yes he does, MK! He apparently works construction and has worked on LI, in AC and FL.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-2825050.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody

The problem I have with HA as a potential suspect in the AC killings is that his ex wife was one of the victims and she was killed via strangulation. I sense that if he'd killed her, there would have been an element of rage and the body would have been subjected to overkill.

The problem I have with the AC suspect being the same as the LI suspect is that it was very specific and ritualistic. He took all their shoes and placed their bodies together in a bizarre fashion. You'd think the LI victims would have had the same signature. They were strangled, but they were not "placed", and I've not read anything about them missing shoes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Just K]

The problem I have with HA as a potential suspect in the AC killings is that his ex wife was one of the victims and she was killed via strangulation. I sense that if he'd killed her, there would have been an element of rage and the body would have been subjected to overkill.

The problem I have with the AC suspect being the same as the LI suspect is that it was very specific and ritualistic. He took all their shoes and placed their bodies together in a bizarre fashion. You'd think the LI victims would have had the same signature. They were strangled, but they were not "placed", and I've not read anything about them missing shoes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

All we know about the GB4 is that some were strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap and placed on the Bay Side of the OP. We don't know if they were staged other than the fact that they were each placed about the same number of feet apart. It sounded almost as if he follows some markings on the highway.

LE has said little else about the GB4. Oddly enough, on video we saw them carry out a rather unique brown tennis shoe yet they never put that piece of evidence out there in case anyone might remember someone wearing those shoes. We assume that the remains were naked but I am not sure there is an actual LE statement that proves that to be a fact. They have not given the public much to go on at all.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

All we know about the GB4 is that some were strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap and placed on the Bay Side of the OP. We don't know if they were staged other than the fact that they were each placed about the same number of feet apart. It sounded almost as if he follows some markings on the highway.

LE has said little else about the GB4. Oddly enough, on video we saw them carry out a rather unique brown tennis shoe yet they never put that piece of evidence out there in case anyone might remember someone wearing those shoes. We assume that the remains were naked but I am not sure there is an actual LE statement that proves that to be a fact. They have not given the public much to go on at all.

ALL 4 girls were strangled or asphixiated.

 

[SmoothOperator]

There are accounts of this area having a history of violence in adherence to certain ritual requirements or quests for supernatural favor. Given the number of bodies in the area yet the differences in kill methods and dumping methods, I *begin to wonder if there are multiple offenders but all related thorough some pagan belief system (no not saying Wiccans or any other specific group or system).*

The above victim chart does bring to mind something. Many different systems hold the equinoxes as spiritually significant and as I understand it, for those that hold to the traditional requirements of sacrifices it is in the spring equinox that generally require no such sacrifices as it is a celebration of the proliferation of life.*

Of course more information is required and this could be way off, but the recent chart does encourage at least some more scrutiny into the possibly. I wonder if that area would also reveal animal remains in somewhat unnatural conditons (ie choped, burned, posed, etc).

You bring up an extremely valid point here and tho, I personally am not settled on it being lone killers for this case(or even lone killers for the cases within this case) I am also not settled on it necessarily being group related serial killings.. But I must admit that I cannot for the life of me get out of my head about what are the ultimate breeding grounds for the occult in and around these areas involved in these cases.. Very strong, deep, and wide reaching roots of the occult are definitely known in these areas and have the elite in some of the highest positions are deeply rooted in these decades old occult practices that are very much still Alive and well in these areas..

For any who have not read "The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry it is a MUST READ and I must say that my mind is never far from much of the very relevant information that comes from that book when looking at these cases..

IMO it is a very real possibility that what BTYT has brought up could be involved if not DIRECTLY, then INDIRECTLY with all of these cases.. Of that I have no doubt..

As I said for any not familiar with this book please take the time to read because I believe there is a good chance that alot what is proven to be alive and well and deeply rooted in this specific area of the country could very likely somehow tie in with all of these murders we're currently looking at..

"The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry and I know that there are online versions available to read for free.. It's 673pages but I read it in 4days.. Very informative!!

 

[waltzingmatilda]

You bring up an extremely valid point here and tho, I personally am not settled on it being lone killers for this case(or even lone killers for the cases within this case) I am also not settled on it necessarily being group related serial killings.. But I must admit that I cannot for the life of me get out of my head about what are the ultimate breeding grounds for the occult in and around these areas involved in these cases.. Very strong, deep, and wide reaching roots of the occult are definitely known in these areas and have the elite in some of the highest positions are deeply rooted in these decades old occult practices that are very much still Alive and well in these areas..

For any who have not read "The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry it is a MUST READ and I must say that my mind is never far from much of the very relevant information that comes from that book when looking at these cases..

IMO it is a very real possibility that what BTYT has brought up could be involved if not DIRECTLY, then INDIRECTLY with all of these cases.. Of that I have no doubt..

As I said for any not familiar with this book please take the time to read because I believe there is a good chance that alot what is proven to be alive and well and deeply rooted in this specific area of the country could very likely somehow tie in with all of these murders we're currently looking at..

"The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry and I know that there are online versions available to read for free.. It's 673pages but I read it in 4days.. Very informative!!

I googled pagan holidays but have been so busy this week that I couldn't spend much time on researching in depth.

We touched on this angle several threads ago. There was a poster who mentioned running across a suspicious group of people in the woods in Manorville, IIRC. I cannot remember the poster but it would be interesting if that person came forward to refresh our memories of this event.

We should sleuth all angles and possibilities, IMHO.

wm

 

[waltzingmatilda]

This is just an FYI for you all that I thought was interesting.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article714733.ece

wm

 

[waltzingmatilda]

The problem I have with HA as a potential suspect in the AC killings is that his ex wife was one of the victims and she was killed via strangulation. I sense that if he'd killed her, there would have been an element of rage and the body would have been subjected to overkill.

The problem I have with the AC suspect being the same as the LI suspect is that it was very specific and ritualistic. He took all their shoes and placed their bodies together in a bizarre fashion. You'd think the LI victims would have had the same signature. They were strangled, but they were not "placed", and I've not read anything about them missing shoes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi Clem! I agree with you about HA and the overkill that is usual with rage at a partner, exwife.

As far as the AC victims, perhaps AC is away from home for him and he doesn't have the burlap accessible like he does when he kills at home on LI. IMO, the killer lives on LI, FWIW.

NO clothes were found on the LI remains, IIRC, but I don't have a link handy. Heck the reporting has been so bad in this case, I can't make heads nor tails of it anyway, LOLz.

Thanks for your input.

wm

 

[PickleChris]

I googled pagan holidays but have been so busy this week that I couldn't spend much time on researching in depth.

We touched on this angle several threads ago. There was a poster who mentioned running across a suspicious group of people in the woods in Manorville, IIRC. I cannot remember the poster but it would be interesting if that person came forward to refresh our memories of this event.

We should sleuth all angles and possibilities, IMHO.

wm

I did post about seeing a group of people in Manorville woods.