The Sidebar - Harris Trial

[minor4th]

Thanks for the well thought out response to my post Zoobiegirl! I did get a chuckle lol. My Gran had a guy calling her not stop asking if she wore black pantyhose, where do these weirdos come from? LOL

I agree with a few things you mentioned, such as the proximity of the car seat, I think where we differ most is that I see no signs of RH being a sociopath.
I haven't heard a single person give any indication that he was or that he resented his child or was strange. Not even the women he was sexting. In any case I have followed with a sociopath, there are always at least
a few people who came forward to mention the creepy vibe they got from the person (even Scott Peterson, though some are saying everyone thought he was normal, that is NOT true). A sociopath does walk around emulating human emotion and empathy the best they can, but I have never seen
a case where that "mask" never slipped even once ever before a murder. I also have not seen the state try to bring that angle up. If they could find testimony/prove he was a sociopath beyond one joking comment about not having a conscience, I am sure they would, it would certainly make the case better than what they did show. But no, everyone in this guys life said he loved his boy and had good things to say about him for the most part.

Since I just don't see evidence of RH being a sociopath, I do not think he simply left the baby in the car on purpose, went to shoot the breeze with work buds while the kid was baking while acting completely normal,
going out at lunch to check if the baby was dead, hear or see some sign he wasn't, then just go back to work, again completely normal until setting the scene after 4pm when the deed was done.

I especially do not see him doing all that because of a double life. I think he got his kicks FROM that double life and sex with strangers. He wasn't looking for love affairs, I think he liked playing naughty old perverted church guy. Pretty well said as much.

In every hot car death case I read up on, there are instances and facts that make me think WTF??? How??? Every single one of them. But I do not believe all of those deaths were done on purpose, I am just not sure what I have
been shown that can tell me this one was, even the close car seat. Some of these parents forget in what seemed to be seconds, some left more than one child, some had triggers but still didn't remember until getting all the way back to daycare, some drove around not smelling a thing, some had small vehicles. I just could not rule RH guilty when the only thing that is different in his case is that I know he's a gross perv.

I also will not find someone guilty for not crying enough, or for laughing when I don't think they should, or because I have a gut feeling, or because his wife is weird. I just wanted to see facts that he at least was truly fed up with his kid beyond the "joker" comment. I have called my son things in jest that could definitely be taken out of context, once it was "soul sucker" because he kept waking up at 4am lol! I have also definitely complained about things like his school constantly asking for money.

It really does not help me seeing all of the internet searches etc. taken out of context. I'm actually pretty disturbed by this investigation. I know Ross is far from a sympathetic creature, but if LE is free to do what they did to him, they're free to do that to anyone. And no, it is not more disturbing than what happened to Cooper or the sexting with minors and I hope he is punished appropriately, just not with malice.

Very well said. I agree with everything.

Especially important - we, as a collective, should never allow police and the state put people in prison for life on evidence that falls short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

While we may have no sympathy for Ross Harris, next time it could be your neighbor or your brother or your son who gets targeted by overzealous white-hats.

 

[Hope4More]

Fair enough.
I remember someone described him as will Ferrell in anchorman.....but let's step away from the scene. How do you explain his behavior in the back of the patrol car?

Compartmentalization and shock. I believe him that he knew Cooper was dead the moment he looked at him, and the briefness of his CPR was because he knew it was hopeless.

He wasn't allowed to go back to Cooper after LE arrived (1-2 minutes later). LE told everyone to get back, including RH. He tried desperately to reach Leanna, and LE stopped him from doing that too.

So, within approx 5 minutes of pulling a dead Cooper out of the car, he's handcuffed and in the back of a police car, one that's been moved so he's further away from Cooper and has to twist himself backwards to look towards his dead son.

Even that much is difficult enough to imagine trying to process, imo.

But, I'm strongly of the opinion that what else was going on for RH was a nightmare he HAD thought about, researched, contemplated, and that was getting busted for his illegal sexting with minors. The police had his PHONE. They already had all the evidence they needed to send him to prison, if....

If, that is, if he gave them any additional reason to find him suspicious. So he chatted, (LE talk he did with everyone, not unusual) , he tried to act normal, he tried to ingratiate himself with LE.

Wrong choices, but i think that's what they were.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I almost always kneel down when speaking to my children....so in my mind that's how she was treating him.

Yes, parents (teachers, coaches, etc.) place themselves on the same level as youngsters to put them at ease and make them feel less vulnerable. Ross is not a child. Under the circumstances, Leanna appeared meek and submissive. I think she was accustomed to letting Ross control most aspects of their marriage even though she might not have agreed with him. :moo:

 

[Hope4More]

I find this aspect of the case the most interesting because it is the single most divisive piece of evidence IMO. This single video is black and white in all our minds with two very different beliefs. I totally respect Hopes description...I can't see what she sees but because her belief is shared with others I know she's isn't insane

Lol. I've been hoping, actually, that I'm hallucinating the news of last night. But no. Can't even really put my heart into arguing with y'all today, but am doing my best .

 

[Mysti88c]

Compartmentalization and shock. I believe him that he knew Cooper was dead the moment he looked at him, and the briefness of his CPR was because he knew it was hopeless.

He wasn't allowed to go back to Cooper after LE arrived (1-2 minutes later). LE told everyone to get back, including RH. He tried desperately to reach Leanna, and LE stopped him from doing that too.

So, within approx 5 minutes of pulling a dead Cooper out of the car, he's handcuffed and in the back of a police car, one that's been moved so he's further away from Cooper and has to twist himself backwards to look towards his dead son.

Even that much is difficult enough to imagine trying to process, imo.

But, I'm strongly of the opinion that what else was going on for RH was a nightmare he HAD thought about, researched, contemplated, and that was getting busted for his illegal sexting with minors. The police had his PHONE. They already had all the evidence they needed to send him to prison, if....

If, that is, if he gave them any additional reason to find him suspicious. So he chatted, (LE talk he did with everyone, not unusual) , he tried to act normal, he tried to ingratiate himself with LE.

Wrong choices, but i think that's what they were.

What, if any, charges would you find him guilty of?

 

[gitana1]

No witnesses at the time thought he was acting. One said RH's pain seemed so real to him he actually cried for RH. Another, who testified that she thought he was acting said originally she saw nothing suspicious, that it seemed to her RH was trying to process what had happened, and that it was sinking in, in bits (screaming- quiet).

It's a basic psychological truth that what we believe we see is influenced by visual context.

Spectators and LE saw a man on his phone rather than by the side of his dead baby, laying on the big pavement. The why's of that didn't matter, and for many, still don't.

Even more prejudicial to how RH was viewed by subsequent eyewitnesses was the fact the grieving screaming father was handcuffed and put into a cop car. It's impossible for those cues to have not influenced what people thought they saw. Fwiw.

Atiyka Eastland testified that she was eating at a nearby restaurant when she saw Cooper Harris lying on the ground, reports the Atlanta Journal Constitution. She said Harris was frantic and yelling, “What have I done?” But she said Harris’ wails didn’t seem “sincere,” adding, “I thought it was strange that (Harris’) tears went on and off.”

A police officer who attempted to save the boy’s life said he wrote in his report that Harris was “acting hysterical.”
“When I say he was acting hysterical, I literally mean that he was ‘acting’ hysterical – acting – not genuine,” Cobb police officer Brett Gallimore said.
Gallimore said he didn’t see Harris cry. https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsn...charged-looks-away-from-photos/?client=safari


Piper said that she first noticed Harris as he was pacing away from his vehicle, talking on his mobile phone.
“Due to his demeanor, I thought he was somehow involved,” Piper said.
She said he was talking in a lower tone on the phone, then yelled in a forced monotone that she could only liken to Will Ferrell’s performance as Ron Burgundy.


On the way to police headquarters, Piper added that Harris would try to engage her in small talk, but the manner in which he did so made her feel uncomfortable. http://goldenisles.news/news/local_...cle_5d6ea704-db03-5fa2-9d82-32316dd972c3.html


According to testimony from both lighting workers, Pantano helped Harris lay Cooper on the pavement, then Harris made a short, ineffectual attempt at CPR before getting up and moving to the other side of the car to begin to make calls on his phone.


Quickly, however, Hawkins said he knew Cooper was dead. He became emotional as he described the signs that Cooper was lifeless.


Regardless, Hawkins said he kept attempting CPR on the child until police showed up and he got in his car and went home. http://goldenisles.news/news/local_...cle_5d6ea704-db03-5fa2-9d82-32316dd972c3.html


James Hawkins, a lighting installer, testified Tuesday that he heard Harris’ car come screeching into the parking lot at Akers Mill Square and then saw the defendant “fumbling around” with his son’s body.


“It wasn’t right, whatever he was doing,” Hawkins said of what appeared to be Harris’s efforts to administer CPR. “So I moved him away and started doing CPR.” http://www.myajc.com/news/news/local/defense-ross-harris-a-victim-of-police-lies-distor/nskWC/


Pantano described how Harris attempted to revive his son as he lay on the ground but gave up and walked away from the child's body after 'a few compressions and one breath'. (I note that Hawkins kept going until police arrived).
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dail...ve-inside-hot-SUV.html?0p19G=e?client=safarip

 

[NCTeacher]

I really don't think Leanna has ever believed Ross did this on purpose, and I really don't think she would have agreed to testify for the defense if she did. She didn't have to testify, and testifying must have been excruciatingly painful. Not just about incredibly private things like their sex life, but about Cooper. I can't imagine. It hasn't been long enough since Cooper died for her not to be shredded by watching videos of her baby, seeing photos of her baby, by having Boring suggest he was about to show her photos of the scene, omg.

IMO she testified because she believes Ross, and did this one last thing as the last thing she'll ever do for him, so she can move on altogether without feeling guilt, no matter what happens to him next.

I think it's really interesting how people perceive things differently. I have completely disagreed with your assessment on Ross, but completely agree with your assessment of Leanna--while they are certainly people who think Leanna's behavior implicate her.

When Leanna thought Boring was going to show the pictures of Cooper in the car--her voice cracked and she fought hard to compose herself. I wanted to jump through my computer and hug her.

I firmly believe Leanna was not involved. By default, I agree that she truly believes he is innocent of intentionally murdering Cooper, that is the only reason she would even consider testifying for a man she clearly is furious with (she was seriously trying to control her fury when the DA dropped the sex with men bomb in the courtroom and telling another woman he loved her bomb)--I thought she was going to jump over the railing, but I'm glad she composed herself.

With that said, Ross, I believe is 100% guilty of malice. Even the talking heads believe he is guilty of malice--after watching Vinnie this morning. Now whether or not the state proved this is debatable--I do concede that.

 

[Hope4More]

o I take it that this is the Verdict Watch thread? :thinking:


and :welcome6: to MsMtOlympus to Websleuths!! :greetings:


and Hope4More - some of us want you back on the Travis' Friends Sidebar - we have questions on the "thing" you posted about??!!!!


I keep forgetting I'm 7 hours ahead of you on the East coast! So the jury is still deliberating??


TIA! :wave:

((((Niner-))))) i'll be there, promise. Haven't known quite how to update on the things, but will try. So you must have moved?? One more reason to stop by, for news of you, special lady.

 

[Violet1820]

It always bothered me that Leanna knelt in front of Ross to talk to him at the jail. I remember thinking, WTF! It was like she was worshipping the man who was responsible, whether by accident or purposefully, for her young son's death in a hot car. What on earth was Leanna thinking? Maybe she was accustomed to kneeling down for Ross :angel: but while speaking with him after learning that Cooper was dead left me dumbfounded. :moo:

Since she was the more rational one, I feel like she should have been running the finances. Now we have learned that in so many aspects, she put herself in great peril by letting RH be the "head of their household". It seems their relationship was very driven by religion and tradition, in that she be submissive, follow his lead, and support him. It bothers me a great deal that she was more concerned about RH than her own son, and what he endured. No matter what RH faces in jail, it won't be as torturous as what little Copper went through.

I know there are rules about posting this from social media. I don't want to break those. I am in a FB group and something that was said there, was very telling to me about their relationship. Hopefully, this will be OK. A neighbor of theirs at the time posted that they asked LH about a preference for a memorial in Cooper's honor in the neighborhood. This person stated that LH said she would have to ask RH, this was while he was in jail. LH did ask and came back to give the person RH's response! Perhaps at this time, she still thought he would get away with it, but it saddens me so much.

I am not trying to sway anyone, but this stood out to me.

 

[monkeypants]

Compartmentalization and shock. I believe him that he knew Cooper was dead the moment he looked at him, and the briefness of his CPR was because he knew it was hopeless.

He wasn't allowed to go back to Cooper after LE arrived (1-2 minutes later). LE told everyone to get back, including RH. He tried desperately to reach Leanna, and LE stopped him from doing that too.

So, within approx 5 minutes of pulling a dead Cooper out of the car, he's handcuffed and in the back of a police car, one that's been moved so he's further away from Cooper and has to twist himself backwards to look towards his dead son.

Even that much is difficult enough to imagine trying to process, imo.

But, I'm strongly of the opinion that what else was going on for RH was a nightmare he HAD thought about, researched, contemplated, and that was getting busted for his illegal sexting with minors. The police had his PHONE. They already had all the evidence they needed to send him to prison, if....

If, that is, if he gave them any additional reason to find him suspicious. So he chatted, (LE talk he did with everyone, not unusual) , he tried to act normal, he tried to ingratiate himself with LE.

Wrong choices, but i think that's what they were.

And THAT is where I start to take a turn in the opposite direction from you. Up until this exact point I'm with you....from here on out we part ways. He just killed his son. His only baby. Who the F cares about anything else that's about to happen or even THINKING about, let alone covering up, anything else. At this point there is nothing for me to live for, care about etc...I deserve whatever else happens from this second forward.

Normal, light hearted chit chat has zero place in this situation from a man that killed his baby

That's NOT shock

 

[minor4th]

Jurors: When detective came into room with Ross that is when they all perked up.

The person who is believed to be foreperson appeared to direct where certain people should sit and when the video began a couple jurors looked at the jurors that were placed in the front with the best view. Appeared what they were paying close attention to was JRH's story.

This is from 11Alive

Sounds like there is a disagreement about what was actually said in the interview - some jurors wanted to point this out to others?

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Lol. I've been hoping, actually, that I'm hallucinating the news of last night. But no. Can't even really put my heart into arguing with y'all today, but am doing my best .

((Hope4More)) hugs to you. I can't stop crying.

 

[Hope4More]

Atiyka Eastland testified that she was eating at a nearby restaurant when she saw Cooper Harris lying on the ground, reports the Atlanta Journal Constitution. She said Harris was frantic and yelling, “What have I done?” But she said Harris’ wails didn’t seem “sincere,” adding, “I thought it was strange that (Harris&#8217 tears went on and off.”

A police officer who attempted to save the boy’s life said he wrote in his report that Harris was “acting hysterical.”
“When I say he was acting hysterical, I literally mean that he was ‘acting’ hysterical – acting – not genuine,” Cobb police officer Brett Gallimore said.
Gallimore said he didn’t see Harris cry. https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsn...charged-looks-away-from-photos/?client=safari


Piper said that she first noticed Harris as he was pacing away from his vehicle, talking on his mobile phone.
“Due to his demeanor, I thought he was somehow involved,” Piper said.
She said he was talking in a lower tone on the phone, then yelled in a forced monotone that she could only liken to Will Ferrell’s performance as Ron Burgundy.


On the way to police headquarters, Piper added that Harris would try to engage her in small talk, but the manner in which he did so made her feel uncomfortable. http://goldenisles.news/news/local_...cle_5d6ea704-db03-5fa2-9d82-32316dd972c3.html


According to testimony from both lighting workers, Pantano helped Harris lay Cooper on the pavement, then Harris made a short, ineffectual attempt at CPR before getting up and moving to the other side of the car to begin to make calls on his phone.


Quickly, however, Hawkins said he knew Cooper was dead. He became emotional as he described the signs that Cooper was lifeless.


Regardless, Hawkins said he kept attempting CPR on the child until police showed up and he got in his car and went home. http://goldenisles.news/news/local_...cle_5d6ea704-db03-5fa2-9d82-32316dd972c3.html


James Hawkins, a lighting installer, testified Tuesday that he heard Harris’ car come screeching into the parking lot at Akers Mill Square and then saw the defendant “fumbling around” with his son’s body.


“It wasn’t right, whatever he was doing,” Hawkins said of what appeared to be Harris’s efforts to administer CPR. “So I moved him away and started doing CPR.” http://www.myajc.com/news/news/local/defense-ross-harris-a-victim-of-police-lies-distor/nskWC/


Pantano described how Harris attempted to revive his son as he lay on the ground but gave up and walked away from the child's body after 'a few compressions and one breath'. (I note that Hawkins kept going until police arrived).
https://www.google.com/amp/www.dail...ve-inside-hot-SUV.html?0p19G=e?client=safarip

Eastland is the witness who changed her story about what she saw. "Not right" as it looked like RH didn't know what he was doing , stopped doing CPR as someone else took over, didn't call 911 because others clearly were (talking to 911 as cpR was being done), and in that situation I'd never forgive my husband if he hadn't st least tried to call me to spare me the additional shock of hearing the news from a stranger .

I just don't see odd in what he did st the scene.

 

[Hope4More]

Since she was the more rational one, I feel like she should have been running the finances. Now we have learned that in so many aspects, she put herself in great peril by letting RH be the "head of their household". It seems their relationship was very driven by religion and tradition, in that she be submissive, follow his lead, and support him. It bothers me a great deal that she was more concerned about RH than her own son, and what he endured. No matter what RH faces in jail, it won't be as torturous as what little Copper went through.

I know there are rules about posting this from social media. I don't want to break those. I am in a FB group and something that was said there, was very telling to me about their relationship. Hopefully, this will be OK. A neighbor of theirs at the time posted that they asked LH about a preference for a memorial in Cooper's honor in the neighborhood. This person stated that LH said she would have to ask RH, this was while he was in jail. LH did ask and came back to give the person RH's response! Perhaps at this time, she still thought he would get away with it, but it saddens me so much.

I am not trying to sway anyone, but this stood out to me.

She asked her husband about a memorial for their son Cooper? What in the world is wrong with that?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Anxiety is a huge part of psychological shock as well as the inability to function cognitively in at least one area, according to Wikipedia. This guy was very relaxed and chatty in parts. Shock is usually the opposite of chattiness. They become silent and unable to express themselves.

A good example to me was a mother wandering around silently after the big San Francico earthquake of 1906. She wandered the streets unable to speak, holding her screaming baby upside down by one foot. That's schock.

I become chatty with my boss when I want to steer the topic away from the assignment I don't have completed yet. I'm just saying it's a tactic to evade difficult questions I don't want to answer. JRH could have been manipulating some things.

 

[rob]

Since she was the more rational one, I feel like she should have been running the finances. Now we have learned that in so many aspects, she put herself in great peril by letting RH be the "head of their household". It seems their relationship was very driven by religion and tradition, in that she be submissive, follow his lead, and support him. It bothers me a great deal that she was more concerned about RH than her own son, and what he endured. No matter what RH faces in jail, it won't be as torturous as what little Copper went through.

I know there are rules about posting this from social media. I don't want to break those. I am in a FB group and something that was said there, was very telling to me about their relationship. Hopefully, this will be OK. A neighbor of theirs at the time posted that they asked LH about a preference for a memorial in Cooper's honor in the neighborhood. This person stated that LH said she would have to ask RH, this was while he was in jail. LH did ask and came back to give the person RH's response! Perhaps at this time, she still thought he would get away with it, but it saddens me so much.

I am not trying to sway anyone, but this stood out to me.

I've always thought that the relationship was in trouble, LH knew it, and was making concessions (like control over the finances) to RH so that he would feel more in charge of the relationship and stay with her. Possibly he had been telling her something like-'I feel like your child instead of your husband' whatever.
Most people I know, when starting to feel like they are ready to leave a relationship, will start with small clues to the other, to give them a clue that it's ending.
MOO

 

[NCTeacher]

Compartmentalization and shock. I believe him that he knew Cooper was dead the moment he looked at him, and the briefness of his CPR was because he knew it was hopeless.

He wasn't allowed to go back to Cooper after LE arrived (1-2 minutes later). LE told everyone to get back, including RH. He tried desperately to reach Leanna, and LE stopped him from doing that too.

So, within approx 5 minutes of pulling a dead Cooper out of the car, he's handcuffed and in the back of a police car, one that's been moved so he's further away from Cooper and has to twist himself backwards to look towards his dead son.

Even that much is difficult enough to imagine trying to process, imo.

But, I'm strongly of the opinion that what else was going on for RH was a nightmare he HAD thought about, researched, contemplated, and that was getting busted for his illegal sexting with minors. The police had his PHONE. They already had all the evidence they needed to send him to prison, if....

If, that is, if he gave them any additional reason to find him suspicious. So he chatted, (LE talk he did with everyone, not unusual) , he tried to act normal, he tried to ingratiate himself with LE.

Wrong choices, but i think that's what they were.

I did not watch the prosecution's testimony---did they have any psychologist come on and explain shock? (My heart and soul could not handle watching the testimony pertaining to how Cooper died--I started watching when Jayne and friends were paraded into the courtroom). I was listening to the psychologist on Vinnie Politan's show this morning and she disagreed that Ross was experiencing shock. I would agreement with her assessment. She said people who are in shock are detached from reality, and she assessed that Ross was very grounded in reality---she used the example of him engaging in dialogue with Stoddard about the charges, criteria of the charges and how they relate to him and what he did.

 

[rob]

She asked her husband about a memorial for their son Cooper? What in the world is wrong with that?

For one thing, his azz was sitting in jail, accused, at the time. But that's just me.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Did JRH go to the memorial service?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[monkeypants]

Since she was the more rational one, I feel like she should have been running the finances. Now we have learned that in so many aspects, she put herself in great peril by letting RH be the "head of their household". It seems their relationship was very driven by religion and tradition, in that she be submissive, follow his lead, and support him. It bothers me a great deal that she was more concerned about RH than her own son, and what he endured. No matter what RH faces in jail, it won't be as torturous as what little Copper went through.

I know there are rules about posting this from social media. I don't want to break those. I am in a FB group and something that was said there, was very telling to me about their relationship. Hopefully, this will be OK. A neighbor of theirs at the time posted that they asked LH about a preference for a memorial in Cooper's honor in the neighborhood. This person stated that LH said she would have to ask RH, this was while he was in jail. LH did ask and came back to give the person RH's response! Perhaps at this time, she still thought he would get away with it, but it saddens me so much.

I am not trying to sway anyone, but this stood out to me.

LH had always done the finances. She allowed him to take over 6 months before he killed cooper.