The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[debs]

And again I'll point out that until recently and when it best benefited him, Kaine was one Terri's strongest supporters for how child-oriented and a good parent she was. Sexting has nothing to do with parenting, and healthy adults do it all the time. Terri was also in an very unique position of having everything in her life torn apart.

I can't see how it was valid to offer these texts as proof of her being a bad parent.

 

[SurfieTX]

And again I'll point out that until recently and when it best benefited him, Kaine was one Terri's strongest supporters for how child-oriented and a good parent she was. Sexting has nothing to do with parenting, and healthy adults do it all the time. Terri was also in an very unique position of having everything in her life torn apart.

I can't see how it was valid to offer these texts as proof of her being a bad parent.

Both Kaine and Desiree publicly said that Terri was a good parent. It's too bad that Terri and her lawyers wouldn't allow the judge to weigh the evidence and decide. I'm sure the judge has observed things this lurid and perhaps worse during his time on the bench.

 

[debs]

Both Kaine and Desiree publicly said that Terri was a good parent. It's too bad that Terri and her lawyers wouldn't allow the judge to weigh the evidence and decide. I'm sure the judge has observed things this lurid and perhaps worse during his time on the bench.

That's my point, Surfie! It's not really evidence for how good a parent she is. It's just lurid and distasteful for the public to have seen. It serves no purpose in the court.

 

[stmarysmead]

And again I'll point out that until recently and when it best benefited him, Kaine was one Terri's strongest supporters for how child-oriented and a good parent she was. Sexting has nothing to do with parenting, and healthy adults do it all the time. Terri was also in an very unique position of having everything in her life torn apart.

I can't see how it was valid to offer these texts as proof of her being a bad parent.

One missing element in this story...concerning Kaine's "vouching" for Terri's mothering...is the complete disregard for how strange and intimidating it must be for anyone to suddenly find BOTH their child missing AND that their life has become the subject of intense media and public interest.

How many people...in the stress of this situation...facing the media like some "celebrity"...would tell them..."Actually, my wife here has a drinking problem and was drunk just about every night."

Or.."Well, my wife Terri...smile at the cameras, Terri...really has no patience with our missing boy...treats him pretty poorly compared to our own child..and has a huge alcohol problem."

How many of us would open up all the family secrets like that? IMO, it's absurd to think every word was a complete honest account of their homelife. Who would drag out the dirt then...one is trying to hold on to what's left in their life.....even if it's an unfaithful alcoholic wife. Kaine was trying to protect her in the early days...cradling her in his arms...excluding media who had upset her...warned people at work to be careful what they said.

I believe that "warning" to his coworkers was so that the Family secrets would NOT be dished to the media. Maybe Terri had been drunk and/or flirting at company events. Maybe there are other sexts to guys that she met through Kaine's work.

I think Kaine was trying for Kyron's sake to cooperate with the media...but still trying to cover for the mess at home.

IMO his early comments are easily understandable in that context. Of course, when LE tells you that the person You HAVE BEEN PROTECTING...tried to have you killed..and probably hurt your son...well, suddenly...everything changes...and the truth comes out.

 

[debs]

I dunno.......but if Kaine was acting strangely in the midst of all that was going on, I surely can be compassionate enough to allow that everyone was acting off their bubble.

 

[Trt]

BBM. What? Who said that? Not me. Good grief.

IMO, It is sad. But it's not *necessarily* criminal. Even in the context of having just lost a son & daughter.

Which, was deb's point, I think. I thought she made a good point ... but, then again, I tend to play devil's advocate here and there - for the intellectual challenge, to keep somewhat grounded, and to challenge my own prejudices in these cases...

There are leaps being made here - assumptions of guilt - that - so far - even the GJ can't make, and they know a bunch more than we know. Okay perhaps they are not huge leaps. (LOL). But ... that pesky presumption of innocence looms in our courts... I can't wait to understand the circumstantial evidence that is keeping LE's focus so strongly on Terri. I can see how these sexts and their timing/context COULD be supportive to that evidence. But in and of themselves, and even in context of their odd and sad timing, they do not necessarily a murderer make. IMO, it is not for me to judge how a consenting adult "relaxes" or "seeks comfort", so long as they don't break the law in the process. (Let me know when adult sexting between consenting adults becomes illegal.)

:cow:

It's not criminal at all...that's what baffles so many. Kaine files an affidavit with the court that contains NO illegal accusations, nothing that Terri could not fight without compromising her 5th amendment rights that her and her lawyers have stated are tied into the civil divorce proceedings. Yet, once that affidavit is filed, again with nothing criminal or illegal to counter, Terri withdraws her request for visitation with her daughter. It is not even illegal to fail a polygraph and they aren't even allowed in a criminal court of law. So what was it that made Terri feel that it was in her best interest(again because we know that her and her lawyers are interested in what is best for TERRI above all else) to withdraw her request to see her toddler?

Certainly not any fear of legal ramifications based on Kaine's affidavit.

JMO

 

[SurfieTX]

That's my point, Surfie! It's not really evidence for how good a parent she is. It's just lurid and distasteful for the public to have seen. It serves no purpose in the court.

It's hard for me to judge. Kaine has a divorce lawyer. She apparently saw them fit to use in the restraining order/parenting issue motions/affidavit. Perhaps she has used evidence like that in other cases and achieved the desired results. Problem is, most of those cases aren't getting the local and national attention that this one is. That's why I think it would have been best to let the judge do his job and weigh everything in context and for its merit in making the determination about parenting time with little K.

 

[Trt]

I doubt if she was out of her mind with grief or sorrow. Kyron was not HER child. Even though she had helped raise him from a baby, there is a difference in a biological child and a stepchild. Anyone who says different is either delusional or lying.
I had my stepdaughter for much of her teen years. I love her, but not like I love my own, because she has a mother, and I always knew I could not take her place, even if I wanted to.

That is in direct conflict with what those who knew Terri and Kyron have said about their relationship. According to those that knew of their relationship, Kyron didn't differentiate(he called her mom) and Terri didn't either. Step is a legal title, but for MOST of the step-parents I know, they see no difference in children born of their loins and ones that they have chosen to love. Certainly not to the extent that they can detach themselves if something happens to that child. As well, we are forgetting that the sexting started 2 days after her BLOOD child was taken from her. Kyron had been gone for 3 weeks.

 

[debs]

It's not criminal at all...that's what baffles so many. Kaine files an affidavit with the court that contains NO illegal accusations, nothing that Terri could not fight without compromising her 5th amendment rights that her and her lawyers have stated are tied into the civil divorce proceedings. Yet, once that affidavit is filed, again with nothing criminal or illegal to counter, Terri withdraws her request for visitation with her daughter. It is not even illegal to fail a polygraph and they aren't even allowed in a criminal court of law. So what was it that made Terri feel that it was in her best interest(again because we know that her and her lawyers are interested in what is best for TERRI above all else) to withdraw her request to see her toddler?

Certainly not any fear of legal ramifications based on Kaine's affidavit.

JMO

But mentioning the polys in that affidavit was against court procedure. I don't know for illegality, but it definitely wasn't appropriate. The minor sanction Rackner receives (if any at all) probably didn't give her a reason to hesitate to include the statements, given that IMO (mine alone) the point was to get that information into the public (where it already was), causing Terri more damage to her reputation.

And I believe in a much more legal way, that's exactly what Terri's attorney stated in his response to remove the request. Terri has been damaged even more by the tactics of Kaine and his attorney, and given that Kaine had already filed for divorce, his "hurt" about Terri carrying on in any fashion with any other man smacks of hypocrisy, given that he was having an affair with Terri when his wife was pregnant and they were still together (according to Desiree).

 

[Trt]

And again I'll point out that until recently and when it best benefited him, Kaine was one Terri's strongest supporters for how child-oriented and a good parent she was. Sexting has nothing to do with parenting, and healthy adults do it all the time. Terri was also in an very unique position of having everything in her life torn apart.

I can't see how it was valid to offer these texts as proof of her being a bad parent.

I don't remember Kaine or Desiree being one of Terri's STRONGEST supporters. I remember them answering questions about her parenting in relation to whether or not either of them thought she would ever hurt a child. I also remember that Kaine has always stated that things were fine with Terri until K was born and that he thought they were getting better before Kyron went missing. I don't ever remember that Kaine or Desiree set aside interview time just to sing Terri's praises when it wasn't in response to a question about her mothering and how it related to what is being reported about her now. JMO

 

[SurfieTX]

But mentioning the polys in that affidavit was against court procedure. I don't know for illegality, but it definitely wasn't appropriate. The minor sanction Rackner receives (if any at all) probably didn't give her a reason to hesitate to include the statements, given that IMO (mine alone) the point was to get that information into the public (where it already was), causing Terri more damage to her reputation.

And I believe in a much more legal way, that's exactly what Terri's attorney stated in his response to remove the request. Terri has been damaged even more by the tactics of Kaine and his attorney, and given that Kaine had already filed for divorce, his "hurt" about Terri carrying on in any fashion with any other man smacks of hypocrisy, given that he was having an affair with Terri when his wife was pregnant and they were still together (according to Desiree).

I don't see why Rackner would have a dog in the fight about Terri's reputation. She's a divorce lawyer. Juries don't grant divorces. And Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. And I'd like to think that Judge M takes his job pretty seriously and would rule by the letter of the divorce/parenting/property laws.

Of course, I'm ignorant about climbing the lawyerin' "corporate ladder," and Rackner may have her eyes set on a DA position or something else, I guess. Or, I don't know, I'm just speculating out loud here - perhaps she is trying to pressure Judge M to decide 100% in her and Kaine's favor via public opinion? Who knows. :waitasec:

 

[Trt]

But mentioning the polys in that affidavit was against court procedure. I don't know for illegality, but it definitely wasn't appropriate. The minor sanction Rackner receives (if any at all) probably didn't give her a reason to hesitate to include the statements, given that IMO (mine alone) the point was to get that information into the public (where it already was), causing Terri more damage to her reputation.

And I believe in a much more legal way, that's exactly what Terri's attorney stated in his response to remove the request. Terri has been damaged even more by the tactics of Kaine and his attorney, and given that Kaine had already filed for divorce, his "hurt" about Terri carrying on in any fashion with any other man smacks of hypocrisy, given that he was having an affair with Terri when his wife was pregnant and they were still together (according to Desiree).

It was not illegal or against court procedure for Kaine to mention something that Terri told him. I believe our lawyers have weighed in on this and said that nothing in Kaine's affidavit was illegal or sanctionable(as asserted by Terri's lawyers in their response and subsequent withdrawal of motion).

Even if we didn't have knowledge from our lawyers that Kaine (nor his lawyer) did anything wrong, does it make a whole lot of sense that Terri's lawyers would *quit* fighting once Kaine and Rackner did something that was against the law or against the court's procedure? Does that make Terri's case stronger or weaker, especially considering that she *could* get the affidavit thrown out or at least portions of it?

Kaine laid out the reason for providing that block of texts and I don't think "hurt" was one of them. It was to show(among other things) that Terri's request for an expedited hearing was a farce considering when she had the chance to get the RO thrown out completely, she was more interested in sexting MC and using faking concern for her toddler in order to get out to see him.

JMO

 

[debs]

It was not illegal or against court procedure for Kaine to mention something that Terri told him. I believe our lawyers have weighed in on this and said that nothing in Kaine's affidavit was illegal or sanctionable(as asserted by Terri's lawyers in their response and subsequent withdrawal of motion).

Even if we didn't have knowledge from our lawyers that Kaine (nor his lawyer) did anything wrong, does it make a whole lot of sense that Terri's lawyers would *quit* fighting once Kaine and Rackner did something that was against the law or against the court's procedure? Does that make Terri's case stronger or weaker, especially considering that she *could* get the affidavit thrown out or at least portions of it?

Kaine laid out the reason for providing that block of texts and I don't think "hurt" was one of them. It was to show(among other things) that Terri's request for an expedited hearing was a farce considering when she had the chance to get the RO thrown out completely, she was more interested in sexting MC and using faking concern for her toddler in order to get out to see him.

JMO

My point is that the text messages offered no evidentiary value to Kaine's position that Terri is an unfit mother.

They do of course go toward her abilities as a seductress. FAIL

 

[stmarysmead]

The day Kaine was told by LE that Terri was most likely involved in Kyron's disappearance and in the attempt to hire someone to kill him...is similar IMO to when we hear from our doctor...a difficult diagnoses we do not want to hear. I'm sure he asked questions...but we, as the general public, are not privy to the answers that convince him to accept these words as truth.

We want the blood tests in detail, the scans laid out before us..otherwise we say.."There is NOT enough to think such a dire thing."

Well, to the man most involved...there was enough. That's plenty enough for me.

And it is in the context of both LE believing in Terri's guilt...and convincing her husband, the father of her child of her guilt...and HER refusal to confront these charges IF ONLY for the child...that I read this sexting.... and find it disturbing and instructive as to Terri's character.

Her callous self-centeredness...her recklessness in regard to trusting a near-stranger AND deceiving her lawyers...her sexual fantasies mingled with those of overpowering a grown man...when to most people...the fear of some grown man sexually overpowering their child would have been a real turn-off AT THAT TIME...all these contribute to my view of Terri.

One symptom alone does not make a diagnosis. But even the symptoms..or knowledge we have about Terri is concerning. And, for now...if LE believes strongly enough to intervene in a marriage, and Kaine believed what they told him enough to get that RO...and Terri has not lifted a finger if it's all bogus....well, that is an informative collage of events.

I'll be patient but that's enough for me for now.

It is none of these things ALONE...but, once again..the "tapestry."

 

[Trt]

My point is that the text messages offered no evidentiary value to Kaine's position that Terri is an unfit mother.

They do of course go toward her abilities as a seductress. FAIL

That wasn't his point...his point was that Terri should not be granted an expedited hearing because she was unconcerned for 3 months as to seeing her daughter. That she also used her daughter conveniently when it suited her. That is laid out in the texts. The other allegations in the affidavit served to show that Terri shouldn't have contact with K.

But again, if what Kaine or his lawyer did was inappropriate in any way, why did Terri quit. Wouldn't that help her make her case?

 

[stmarysmead]

My point is that the text messages offered no evidentiary value to Kaine's position that Terri is an unfit mother.

They do of course go toward her abilities as a seductress. FAIL

Terri has excellent lawyers....I think we all agree.

If the sexts are irrelevant, if they are "contrived", if there is SO much to counterbalance to show Terri's excellent mothering, if Kaine is a liar, if Terri is that Facebook Mom of the pictures...why throw in the legal "towel?"

This should be a cakewalk. Just deal with the issue of what a Fabulous Mom Terri is. Just submit to the tests that any divorcing parent might have to. Just do that minimum.

Why did they pull back?

What is there to fear?

 

[debs]

That wasn't his point...his point was that Terri should not be granted an expedited hearing because she was unconcerned for 3 months as to seeing her daughter. That she also used her daughter conveniently when it suited her. That is laid out in the texts. The other allegations in the affidavit served to show that Terri shouldn't have contact with K.

But again, if what Kaine or his lawyer did was inappropriate in any way, why did Terri quit. Wouldn't that help her make her case?

I missed the part of his motion to the court where he said that the text messages demonstrated that she was unconcerned for 3 months. In fact, her attorney stated multiple times that he had been attempting to work with Kaine's attorney to hammer out a visitation agreement, which is evidence that she WAS trying in those 3 months.

In the last 3 months, I've done a lot of things. Focusing on one thing for one part of my day or another doesn't mean that the others things I had to focus on as well were neglected.

The texts just don't prove Kaine's position that Terri shouldn't have time with their daughter.

 

[stmarysmead]

I read wonderful defenses of Terri here every day. She adored Kyron...she cared for him superbly...friends will testify to her fabulous mothering...she was only sexting to relieve tension (healthy people do this all the time now so everyone will understand)...even Kaine and Desiree thought her fabulous until recently.

If this is true...surely it can be said in court, proved in court. Call in people who will swear to these things...who saw years of heracting this way. Bring them in!

Show Kaine to be a liar! Prove it!

Why slither away? If it is so detrimental for Baby K to be without Mommy...why ALLOW it? Disprove all you can! If there is no evidence...there is no evidence TO FEAR...fight for this child you think is suffering without you..like any Mother would!

Why not? If she is innocent AND a fabulous Mom?

Relieve your stress by fighting for your child rather than sending graphic sexual pix of yourself to a near stranger!

 

[debs]

I'm trying to only focus on the matter of the texts, which is the topic of this thread!

 

[Trt]

I missed the part of his motion to the court where he said that the text messages demonstrated that she was unconcerned for 3 months. In fact, her attorney stated multiple times that he had been attempting to work with Kaine's attorney to hammer out a visitation agreement, which is evidence that she WAS trying in those 3 months.

In the last 3 months, I've done a lot of things. Focusing on one thing for one part of my day or another doesn't mean that the others things I had to focus on as well were neglected.

The texts just don't prove Kaine's position that Terri shouldn't have time with their daughter.

I didn't quote the affidavit, but that was the point that I saw...here is what he said about the texts:

"In my opinon, these records show an emotionally disturbed individual focused on her own needs rather than the needs of K**** or my missing child Kyron."

"The text messages also reveal issues with respondent's credibility."

And then, there is the subsequent assertion that:

"Respondent's behavior shows that there is no concern for Kyron or the loss of contact with K****. Respondent's actions are entirely self-motivated She waited three and a half months to ask the Court for parentintg time with K****."

Since we know that Terri would have had to do exactly what she did at the beginning of October (file a request with the court for supervised visitation), I agree with Kaine that she was unconcerned with the loss of her daughter. Working behind the scenes with Kaine to try and hammer out a visitation agreement that is null without a hearing to address modification and which the judge can decide to accept or deny is disingenuous at best.

It would have been up to the judge to decide whether or not the texts helped prove Kaine's assertions that Terri shouldn't see K(or shouldn't receive an expedited hearing which was also a point made in the affidavit), but since Terri decided to WITHDRAW her motion after Kaine filed his affidavit, we will never know.

JMO