The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[debs]

I would agree that texting MC demonstrates that "at that moment" she was not thinking of children. I should imagine that we're all thankful at least for THAT.

That is not proof, however, that any other time when she was not engaged in lurid behavior, that she was not concerned with her children, their whereabouts and their safety. These texts are not proof of absence of concern; they are only demonstrative of much more than my eyes ever wanted to read.

 

[liz b.]

My point is that the text messages offered no evidentiary value to Kaine's position that Terri is an unfit mother.

They do of course go toward her abilities as a seductress. FAIL

Debs,
I can't help but agree with you ; TH does not sound well versed in the art of verbal seduction.... MOO

 

[Trt]

I would agree that texting MC demonstrates that "at that moment" she was not thinking of children. I should imagine that we're all thankful at least for THAT.

That is not proof, however, that any other time when she was not engaged in lurid behavior, that she was not concerned with her children, their whereabouts and their safety. These texts are not proof of absence of concern; they are only demonstrative of much more than my eyes ever wanted to read.

Whether or not we think they serve their purpose, that was the stated purpose for including them...not to embarrass Terri publicly or even to show that she is an unfit parent for engaging in adult behavior.

JMO

 

[debs]

Whether or not we think they serve their purpose, that was the stated purpose for including them...not to embarrass Terri publicly or even to show that she is an unfit parent for engaging in adult behavior.

JMO

The stated purpose as you quoted was to do exactly that.....


"Respondent's behavior shows that there is no concern for Kyron or the loss of contact with K****. Respondent's actions are entirely self-motivated She waited three and a half months to ask the Court for parentintg time with K****."

The value of these texts in a divorce or a discussion for whether Terri was fit to have visitation is nil.

There is no value to them to forward either of these matters, then they were lurid and meant to cause Terri harm. I don't expect an established attorney to state for the court that embarrassing the Respondent is the purpose in adding them to the motion filed. But I do believe that attorneys around the world do this sort of thing, every day.

 

[BeanE]

I would agree that texting MC demonstrates that "at that moment" she was not thinking of children. I should imagine that we're all thankful at least for THAT.

That is not proof, however, that any other time when she was not engaged in lurid behavior, that she was not concerned with her children, their whereabouts and their safety. These texts are not proof of absence of concern; they are only demonstrative of much more than my eyes ever wanted to read.

Kaine himself asserts, via his attorney in the contempt motion, that there were indeed texts in which Terri said she misses both Kyron and the baby.

PDF page 11, Item 13
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/2/c/b2c0c26c-4221-4fde-a923-fa5788b1ad69/Horman.pdf

 

[Billylee]

Since OR is a no-fault divorce state and further since these sexts happened after Kaine filed for dissolution, and further since Terri's lawyers have tried to bring settlement of the visitation issues all along, I have to conclude that the ONLY reason for these sexts to be included publicly in this divorce proceeding is to further vilify Terri in the public eye.

If the only reason these sexts were included was to show the judge in this divorce how little Terri cared for her children, Kaine Horman and his attorney could quite easily have requested the sexts be kept under seal. They chose not to do that, and there is a reason why. They are doing whatever they can to pressure Terri to divulge whatever it is they think she might know about Kyron's disappearance.

Would I do that if I thought my spouse had something to do with my child missing? Very possibly. However, I would have had grave concern over releasing these sexts for the effect they would have on my teenage stepson, J, whom I loved as my own, and my other children in the future. IMO, they are also using her daughter as a pawn to achieve their goal. This, I would not do. I've personally seen the effects of a child of baby K's age when the mother is suddenly removed from the scene. It can be devastating on the child.

I personally think that Houze had Bunch withdraw the visitation, I also personally think that the public release of those sexts and all the discussion that is publicly taking place vilifying Terri for them will come back to haunt Kaine and his attorney, if and when Terri is ever charged and goes to trial. I think Houze is sitting back and letting this happen for exactly that reason. If Terri is ever charged, the first thing out of his mouth is going to be that it's now impossible to get a fair trial for this woman. The evidence he'll present to the judge when that happens, will be overwhelming.

This is all JMO as usual.

 

[Trt]

The stated purpose as you quoted was to do exactly that.....


"Respondent's behavior shows that there is no concern for Kyron or the loss of contact with K****. Respondent's actions are entirely self-motivated She waited three and a half months to ask the Court for parentintg time with K****."

The value of these texts in a divorce or a discussion for whether Terri was fit to have visitation is nil.

There is no value to them to forward either of these matters, then they were lurid and meant to cause Terri harm. I don't expect an established attorney to state for the court that embarrassing the Respondent is the purpose in adding them to the motion filed. But I do believe that attorneys around the world do this sort of thing, every day. I would agree that texting MC demonstrates that "at that moment" she was not thinking of children. I should imagine that we're all thankful at least for THAT.

That is not proof, however, that any other time when she was not engaged in lurid behavior, that she was not concerned with her children, their whereabouts and their safety. These texts are not proof of absence of concern; they are only demonstrative of much more than my eyes ever wanted to read.

Where is it stated in that quote that Terri is unfit for engaging in adult behavior? The quote states specifically that her actions are self motivated and that she waited 3.5 months to ask the court for parenting time with K(while sexting and using K as an excuse/lie to get out of her house and not have her lawyer know about it and avoid "trouble")

This was not a divorce discussion, this was a response to a request for modification of an RO and for an expedited hearing to determine parental contact.

JMO

 

[Trt]

Kaine himself asserts, via his attorney in the contempt motion, that there were indeed texts in which Terri said she misses both Kyron and the baby.

PDF page 11, Item 13
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/2/c/b2c0c26c-4221-4fde-a923-fa5788b1ad69/Horman.pdf

Yes, he does. So instead of providing those texts to the court to counter Kaine's assertions in his affidavit, Terri and her lawyers withdraw their request to see her child. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

[stmarysmead]

I would agree that texting MC demonstrates that "at that moment" she was not thinking of children. I should imagine that we're all thankful at least for THAT.

That is not proof, however, that any other time when she was not engaged in lurid behavior, that she was not concerned with her children, their whereabouts and their safety. These texts are not proof of absence of concern; they are only demonstrative of much more than my eyes ever wanted to read.

If we focus only on one set of exchanges, subtracting out everything else we know...we could find a verbal exchange that proves Scott Petersen was a devoted, faithful Father-to-be...that Bundy was the perfect "ride home."

Is it logical to say..well, the blood tests alone don't prove the dread disease...and therefore that is only thing one wishes to review...and in isolation WHERE IT won't mean anything?

"Doctor, don't show me the X-rays! i WANT only to talk about the blood tests and ALONE, they prove nothing. Therefore I don't need to believe you!"

 

[germaine]

Since OR is a no-fault divorce state and further since these sexts happened after Kaine filed for dissolution, and further since Terri's lawyers have tried to bring settlement of the visitation issues all along, I have to conclude that the ONLY reason for these sexts to be included publicly in this divorce proceeding is to further vilify Terri in the public eye.

If the only reason these sexts were included was to show the judge in this divorce how little Terri cared for her children, Kaine Horman and his attorney could quite easily have requested the sexts be kept under seal. They chose not to do that, and there is a reason why. They are doing whatever they can to pressure Terri to divulge whatever it is they think she might know about Kyron's disappearance.

Would I do that if I thought my spouse had something to do with my child missing? Very possibly. However, I would have had grave concern over releasing these sexts for the effect they would have on my teenage stepson, J, whom I loved as my own, and my other children in the future. IMO, they are also using her daughter as a pawn to achieve their goal. This, I would not do. I've personally seen the effects of a child of baby K's age when the mother is suddenly removed from the scene. It can be devastating on the child.

I personally think that Houze had Bunch withdraw the visitation, I also personally think that the public release of those sexts and all the discussion that is publicly taking place vilifying Terri for them will come back to haunt Kaine and his attorney, if and when Terri is ever charged and goes to trial. I think Houze is sitting back and letting this happen for exactly that reason. If Terri is ever charged, the first thing out of his mouth is going to be that it's now impossible to get a fair trial for this woman. The evidence he'll present to the judge when that happens, will be overwhelming.

This is all JMO as usual.

I agree about the "no fair trial" argument but, imo, it's no big. Worst case scenario (or best, depending on your pov), she will get a change of venue. I've never heard of a criminal trial simply not happening because of that argument. They just question potential jurors until they find enough that can be impartial.

Then everyone's happy. I don't think most people who think TH is guilty are actively hoping for a lynch-mob jury. jmoo

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Yes, he does. So instead of providing those texts to the court to counter Kaine's assertions in his affidavit, Terri and her lawyers withdraw their request to see her child. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

Kaine and his lawyer chose which text messages to publicize - for the stated reason of showing terri as not caring about kyron's disappearance If he had included the texts he says exist that show terri as caring -it would have gone against the message he and his lawyer are trying to portray.

 

[debs]

If we focus only on one set of exchanges, subtracting out everything else we know...we could find a verbal exchange that proves Scott Petersen was a devoted, faithful Father-to-be...that Bundy was the perfect "ride home."

Is it logical to say..well, the blood tests alone don't prove the dread disease...and therefore that is only thing one wishes to review...and in isolation WHERE IT won't mean anything?

"Doctor, don't show me the X-rays! i WANT only to talk about the blood tests and ALONE, they prove nothing. Therefore I don't need to believe you!"

You altered my post in the quote. Be that as it may, however, we were only given this one set of exchanges. Just as you point out very eruditely, one shouldn't make decisions based on only one thing.

 

[Trt]

Kaine and his lawyer chose which text messages to publicize - for the stated reason of showing terri as not caring about kyron's disappearance If he had included the texts he says exist that show terri as caring -it would have gone against the message he and his lawyer are trying to portray.

Exactly...its not Kaine or his lawyer's job to make Terri's case for her. His job(and Rackner's job) is to make HIS case. My question was doesn't it boggle the mind that TERRI, instead of providing the texts that would counter Kaine's assertions that she didn't care about either one, withdrew her request to see her daughter?

 

[Billylee]

Kaine and his lawyer chose which text messages to publicize - for the stated reason of showing terri as not caring about kyron's disappearance If he had included the texts he says exist that show terri as caring -it would have gone against the message he and his lawyer are trying to portray.

If that was their only goal, why not keep them private, under seal, for the judges eyes only, so as not to cause potential unimaginable psychological harm to Kaine's teenage stepson, J?

There was absolutely only one reason to publicly release the sexts, IMO, it was to try to pressure Terri to talk. As long as she has Houze for an attorney, it' ain't gonna happen. JMHO

 

[Trt]

If that was their only goal, why not keep them private, under seal, for the judges eyes only, so as not to cause potential unimaginable psychological harm to Kaine's teenage stepson, J?

There was absolutely only one reason to publicly release the sexts, IMO, it was to try to pressure Terri to talk. As long as she has Houze for an attorney, it' ain't gonna happen. JMHO

Only a judge can seal public records. We don't know if Kaine or his lawyer requested this or not. But even if he had, the potential embarrassment to Terri and the fact that her son *may* see them (when there was no concern for her son on Terri's behalf as she was sending them knowing that police were monitoring her as she stated) isn't a legal reason to seal public records.

JMO

eta: How would providing sexting messages to a civil court judge (not illegal in any way) pressure Terri to talk?

 

[Trt]

Also, Terri and her lawyers have had these text messages since July when Kaine and his lawyers received them. Why didn't they preemptively ask for a seal? Could it be that Houze and Bunch both knew that they had no legal recourse to ask a judge to seal records that Terri engaged in knowingly and as an adult?

 

[Billylee]

Only a judge can seal public records. We don't know if Kaine or his lawyer requested this or not. But even if he had, the potential embarrassment to Terri and the fact that her son *may* see them (when there was no concern for her son on Terri's behalf as she was sending them knowing that police were monitoring her as she stated) isn't a legal reason to seal public records.

JMO

eta: How would providing sexting messages to a civil court judge (not illegal in any way) pressure Terri to talk?

Firstly, records can and do get sealed in divorce proceedings to protect the children involved in those cases.

Secondly, are you really asking how providing those sexts contributed to the vilification of Terri and would not be considered a defense tactic to get her to talk?
Hah, just look around at the venom their release has spewed.

 

[Trt]

Firstly, records can and do get sealed in divorce proceedings to protect the children involved in those cases.

Secondly, are you really asking how providing those sexts contributed to the vilification of Terri and would not be considered a defense tactic to get her to talk?
Hah, just look around at the venom their release has spewed.

I haven't denied that public records do get sealed. Once again, this was not a divorce proceeding, but an RO modification request. I am questioning whether the judge would have deemed Terri's embarrassment a good enough reason to seal the court records or if the judge would have decided that J was being put at any MORE risk than he was when Terri decided to send the texts(again, knowing that she was being monitored by LE and admitting to such in the texts) and therefore worthy of a seal. Our lawyers have previously weighed in on this and it wasn't a given that if Kaine or his lawyers had asked for a seal(as it is not confirmed that they didn't), it would have been granted.

The question I asked was how would attaching the documents to a civil court affidavit would pressure Terri to talk. No release of public information (potentially CRIMINAL) to date has compelled her to speak, so what would be so magical about her lewd, but adult and totally legal behavior, would prompt such?

I prefer to believe what Kaine placed in his affidavit under penalty of perjury as to the reason for including the texts in the civil court proceeding.


And yet again, why didn't Terri or her lawyers ask for a seal in July when they received the texts along with Kaine and his lawyer? Or would we know if she did and it was denied?

JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

You altered my post in the quote. Be that as it may, however, we were only given this one set of exchanges. Just as you point out very eruditely, one shouldn't make decisions based on only one thing.

You made no post about doctor's appointments. Therefore nothing pertaining to you specifically was "altered." I'm quite confused by that comment.

But, I do agree...when it comes to this case...we need to look at the confluence of events.

 

[stmarysmead]

If that was their only goal, why not keep them private, under seal, for the judges eyes only, so as not to cause potential unimaginable psychological harm to Kaine's teenage stepson, J?

There was absolutely only one reason to publicly release the sexts, IMO, it was to try to pressure Terri to talk. As long as she has Houze for an attorney, it' ain't gonna happen. JMHO

Because, if Kaine believes that LE is correct and Terri tried to kill him and probably DID kill his son...then, unfortunately, the safety of Baby K trumps the embarrassment to J.

Keeping Baby K safe was the absolute most legitimate reason for using whatever Kaine and LE possessed to keep Terri from getting visitation. And apparently..it worked. Houze et al...huffed and puffed...but they withdrew the request for visitation.

That tells me who is holding the stronger hand. Big time attorneys, I'd imagine..do not like to slink away...if and when they hold BIG cards.

But they did.