The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #4

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So in my opinion the Judge...knowing what the jurors have said in the media...should have brought them in and gotten them on the record, thrown out this improper verdict and ordered a new trial. Because this jury admittedly came to a verdict against the legal jury instructions by the Court.

..if the verdict had been GUILTY----and any one of the jurors had come out and said they thought baez was a total overly dramatic nutjob....

..you can bet that cheney would have been complaining instantly! that they were NOT to use their feelings against jose, NOT to have bias , blah di blah.....( while waving his 'finger of affection" around...)

..i will NEVER respect this verdict-------i prefer to side with at least 2 judges who have come out to say the same----they do not respect the verdict of this jury, but do respect "the jury system" of the U.S.A.
 
So in my opinion the Judge...knowing what the jurors have said in the media...should have brought them in and gotten them on the record, thrown out this improper verdict and ordered a new trial. Because this jury admittedly came to a verdict against the legal jury instructions by the Court.
Great point ... seems like there are heaps of reasons for a mistrial, with the possible exception of the jury violating the jury instructions.
 
So in my opinion the Judge...knowing what the jurors have said in the media...should have brought them in and gotten them on the record, thrown out this improper verdict and ordered a new trial. Because this jury admittedly came to a verdict against the legal jury instructions by the Court.

He can't. Casey has been tried and found not guilty.
 
Everyone on this forum knew ALLL about ICA's many lies. They knew all about who she was and how she lived. They knew all about what she did while her child rotted in a swamp. They jury, on the other hand, got to listen to days and days of everything but that. They heard about internet searches that NO ONE, including the prosecution, believes occured. They heard about weird smell machines and experimental air samplers. They heard all about George's suicide, and his character. They learned all about the poor guy who actually discovered the body, and his absolutely insane efforts to get the police to pay attention. They spent more time hearing about this poor guy's failed marriage and his numerous human imperfections than they heard about Casey's insane post-murder party lifestyle.

Respectfully disagree, the jury heard plenty about the consciousness of guilt evidence from the State. Were you watching the same trial as me ? You didn't see FCA's friends testify about Fusion Nightclub, or the tattoo guy talk about the Bella Vita tattoo, or the pictures of FCA in the hot body contest ??? You didn't hear the interview between FCA and the detectives, or FCA lying to her parents about the nanny ?

And listen to LDB's closing argument ... how much more emphasis did the jury need on the 31 days ? The jury was more wrapped up in the emotion of GA and GA was not on trial.
 
It becomes relevant when the 84 searches are trumpeted as a critical piece of evidence in the case.



Or maybe, and more likely, the chloroform reading was an error. ICA was LAZY, she wasn't making Chloroform or anything else. She searched for the term because she, like millions of others (including me) saw the classic meme motivational poster and wanted to know what it was. And having a murderous mind, she probably looked up how to make it on the off chance it was simple.



Yeah, there were a lot of instructions they didn't seem to follow. But again, they watched the guy who gets paid big bucks to follow the rules openly ignoring them as well.



I agree. I would think that in a case like this, which really relies on circumstantial evidence and reasonable conclusions, that the prosecution would spend a little time explaning what reasonable doubt means and why the evidence they presented rises above that.



It was not just JA's giggling -- which ALONE could have resulted in a mistrial -- but the entire performance of head shaking and face palming which preceeded it. I was astonished at this display. I really really admiredthe guy leading up to that point, I thought he was brilliant, and I pretty much lost 90% of my respect for him right there.
BBM
According to TonE and his roommates Casey cooked for them,cleaned ,shopped,and IIRC she did laundry .She helped prepare for a party ,4th of July ,I think.
She didn't want to work at a job,but when she wanted something ,she WAS willing to put some effort in.
I don't know if she made chloroform or if she bought it from someone,but there was chloroform in her trunk,along with decomposition.
 
It is the JOB of the defense team to do everything (legal) they can to win their case.

It is the prosecution's job to present their evidence and theories to the jury in such a manner that all twelve, every single one of them, can reach no other conclusion. They must have the facts that they present in order, airtight, and so idiot-simple that the dumbest guy on the jury understands it and agrees. And they must do this with every fact that they present.

They know going in that the defense is going to try to sidetrack the discussion, they are gonna offer excuses, explanations, present questions and try to raise doubts. They know that if the defense can call even ONE of their facts, one critical piece of evidence into question, the credibility of the entire case can collapse. It is the prosecution's job to be 100% sure of everything they present, it is the defense's job to say "Yeah? So what? That doesn't mean anything!" It is the defense's JOB to be critical of every hole in the prosecutions case, it is the prosecutor's job to eliminate the holes or show why they do not matter.

It's supposed to be tough.

Everyone on this forum knew ALLL about ICA's many lies. They knew all about who she was and how she lived. They knew all about what she did while her child rotted in a swamp. They jury, on the other hand, got to listen to days and days of everything but that. They heard about internet searches that NO ONE, including the prosecution, believes occured. They heard about weird smell machines and experimental air samplers. They heard all about George's suicide, and his character. They learned all about the poor guy who actually discovered the body, and his absolutely insane efforts to get the police to pay attention. They spent more time hearing about this poor guy's failed marriage and his numerous human imperfections than they heard about Casey's insane post-murder party lifestyle.

And people say the prosecution did a good job and the defense sucked?



BBM - discussion, they are gonna offer excuses, explanations, present questions and try to raise doubts? You've got to be kidding. This isn't what happened here. This was a defense based on lies, and more lies.......all to defend an "admitted" liar so it was no surprise to the jury going in. Defense said "she was raised to lie".

internet searches that NO ONE, including the prosecution, believes occured. Which searches are you referring to?

the prosecution did a good job and the defense sucked? They most certainly did.
 
BBM - discussion, they are gonna offer excuses, explanations, present questions and try to raise doubts? You've got to be kidding. This isn't what happened here. This was a defense based on lies, and more lies.......all to defend an "admitted" liar so it was no surprise to the jury going in. Defense said "she was raised to lie".

Okay. In what way does this invalidate what I said? You and I know Casey is as black as sin. I suspect the Jury knows it as well.

internet searches that NO ONE, including the prosecution, believes occured. Which searches are you referring to?

The eighty-four searches for how to make Chloroform. The company that wrote the search software said that this was inaccurate. They told this to the prosecution, who reportedly ignored this information. In other words, the company that wrote the software KNEW it did not happen, as did the prosecution, and apparently so did the Jury.

the prosecution did a good job and the defense sucked? They most certainly did.

They won what pretty much everyone in the freaking country, including the really smart people posting here, believed was a slam dunk case. I offered my opinion as to how and why. But you don't have to accept or even think about my reasoning. My opinion probably isn't worth a lot anyway.

In fact, to be honest, I hate discussing this case at all so I will probably go away again. It infuriates me that this <modsnip> got away with it. I will just leave you with this question to consider:

Is it more comforting to believe that the good guys were defeated by fools?
 
BBM - discussion, they are gonna offer excuses, explanations, present questions and try to raise doubts? You've got to be kidding. This isn't what happened here. This was a defense based on lies, and more lies.......all to defend an "admitted" liar so it was no surprise to the jury going in. Defense said "she was raised to lie".

internet searches that NO ONE, including the prosecution, believes occured. Which searches are you referring to?

the prosecution did a good job and the defense sucked? They most certainly did.

And when you add it all up it was the "Perfect Storm".
 
They won what pretty much everyone in the freaking country, including the really smart people posting here, believed was a slam dunk case. I offered my opinion as to how and why. But you don't have to accept or even think about my reasoning. My opinion probably isn't worth a lot anyway.

In fact, to be honest, I hate discussing this case at all so I will probably go away again. It infuriates me that this evil murdering witch got away with it. I will just leave you with this question to consider:

Is it more comforting to believe that the good guys were defeated by fools?

Your opinion is as valuable as the opinion of anyone on this board. My level of infuriation matches or exceeds yours as I live about 5 miles from the A's and have followed every inch of this trial for the last 3+ years.

But IMO, the State was not defeated by the defense (fools or not), even though that is what the official record will show. The jury cost the State this case, as I tend to believe most experts who before the verdict asserted that the State had presented a complete and convincing case. Lesson learned at the State Attorney's office that even when you have a strong circumstantial case, you need to pay strict attention to jury selection with regards to both venue and the candidates available to sit on the jury.
 
"I was pretty much forced to talk," she says of an interview she gave to ABC News in which she said there was not enough evidence to convict Anthony of more-serious charges. "They wouldn't go away."
http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...ury-ar-244721/
Pinellas woman regrets serving on Anthony jury.

I wonder if JF was also forced to go to Disney. IMO, MOO, etc.

Yeah I bet they had to really twist her arm to go to Disney, not. To the contrary, at least one juror from the Warren Jeff trial has already given an interview. Doubt she got a trip to Disney or any other form of compensation. Unlike the Anthony jury, clearly the Jeff jurors were only interested in arriving at a correct verdict and not in receiving blood money. Just my opinion and I’ll stand by it.
 
Okay. In what way does this invalidate what I said? You and I know Casey is as black as sin. I suspect the Jury knows it as well.



The eighty-four searches for how to make Chloroform. The company that wrote the search software said that this was inaccurate. They told this to the prosecution, who reportedly ignored this information. In other words, the company that wrote the software KNEW it did not happen, as did the prosecution, and apparently so did the Jury.



They won what pretty much everyone in the freaking country, including the really smart people posting here, believed was a slam dunk case. I offered my opinion as to how and why. But you don't have to accept or even think about my reasoning. My opinion probably isn't worth a lot anyway.

In fact, to be honest, I hate discussing this case at all so I will probably go away again. It infuriates me that this evil murdering witch got away with it. I will just leave you with this question to consider:

Is it more comforting to believe that the good guys were defeated by fools?


I have to respond to the bolded part. This keeps on being said and is extremely inaccurate. There were not 84 searches and the prosecution never claimed there were. The original report/testimony was that there were 84 VISITS to the sci-spot.com web page, which contained the recipe for how to make chloroform. Repeat - it was not SEARCHES it was VISITS. As for the number, you do not have to VISIT a web page but ONE TIME to get the information needed. You can print it off and be done with it.
Sorry, but it just bugs me that people keep saying 84 searches. The first person I heard incorrectly use "searches" wrt 84 was JB.

Additionally, the prosecution were not notified of the incorrect data until they were in the rebuttal phase. They were not hiding it. The developer of the software investigated and found the bug after hearing JBs CIC that revealed conflicting reports. Once he determined it was wrong, it was reported to all parties. The earliest that the prosecution could address it was the rebuttal phase.
I don't think people should get hung up on the number 84 vs 1. So there was 1. It's still more than zero. MOO

As far as the good guys defeated by fools - I think it is more like the good guys defeated by morally bankrupt cheaters. :twocents:
 
Just one more reason why the SA charged FKC .......

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...after_nearly_drowning_being_underwater_.html?

This child spent 15 minutes or more floating two feet underwater, deprived of oxygen, and was clinically dead for at least half an hour. He has made a complete recovery.

Remind me again why 911 wasn't called?
That would be too logical logicalgirl. The inability of 12 jurors to connect such obvious dots such as this just dumbfounds me to the core.
 
..thank you for the new thread.

..personally-----i do disagree with the verdict ( and not JUST b/c i find her to be guilty of murder ) but b/c also of what the jurors that HAVE spoken, have said.

..both juror #3 (jennifer ford) and the jury foreman have SAID that they wished there had been other charges that they could have used to find her guilty of! "not guilty doesn't mean innocent"!

( there WERE a ton of "lessers" included ------why on earth didn't they use them ?)

-----------Good Morning America: " Do you think if the prosecutors had not been seeking the death penalty, it would have affected how you deliberated about this case"?

JenniferFord: "Absolutely! We were ..uh. I think it was mentioned even a few times, if they charged her with other things, we probably could have convicted her or you know got her a guilty sentence, but not for death, not for first degree. There's not enough to substantiate that. That's a very serious charge".


..that alone tells me that at least ONE juror--------jennifer ford--------did NOT understand the instructions.

..and had she------she could have been the ONE to hold out for guilty and the outcome would have been different.

..they were NOT to factor in the Death Penalty-------while deliberating the GUILT phase---------and yet she did.

..both jennifer ford and the jury foreman have publicly lamented------there was no cause of death!

--------------clearly neither were aware that the state did NOT need to give them one.
( had they KNOWN that-----the verdict may have been different.)

..i was following "verdict watch" LIVE on wftv----commentary with bill shaeffer and the reporter----we were waiting for the jury to 'buzz'---meaning they were requesting a portion of testimony to be read back, perhaps view a (jail) video, review pictures...ask the judge for clarification on "legal-lingo".....

..( all of the thing that were NOT available to them in the jury room----the physical pieces of evidence were in there with them-----except for the sealed cans/carpet--------everything else that they wanted to review they needed to 'buzz' the deputy for-----------and we would have all known if they did.. ).

..i find it shocking (!) that 12 people ( who claimed to have barely followed the case before making the jury ) heard ALL of that testimony/saw ALL of the evidence submitted/heard LENGTHY expert detailed forensic /scientific details----------and yet were able to go into that deliberation room after WEEKS, and not ask for ANY of it to refresh (anyones!) memory?

..wow! in my next life---------i want THAT total recall!

..it's absurd that with a trial this LENGTHY, that the jury was ( or members of the jury were..) arrogant enough to "go it alone"----and not do the RIGHT thing by asking to review----or ask for ANY legal interpretation...

( oh wait---who needs to buzz for the judge-----a high school GYM teacher can break this down for them ?? )

..rendering a verdict---in a murder case----when they clearly did not fully understand the instructions-----is just seriously wrong.

..you end up with--------a wrong verdict.

I'm sorry to quote the entirety of this post instead of "snipping" some aspects - I found it impossible to do that, because all the elements are relevant to the point - which, as I understand it - is that she was "overly charged" (my wording), so therefore the jurors had no other option but to render a 'not guilty' verdict.

I'd be grateful if someone would explain why the jury couldn't have found her 'guilty' of a lesser charge, such as criminal neglect or similar (?), instead of guilty for misleading the authorities (not sure of the exact wording). If they found her guilty of misleading or interfering with an investigation, didn't they think that there was a reason for her to do that?

This is touching another topic, re the proposed Caylee's Law. Why would a mother not report a missing 2 year-old and make up all sorts of stories as to who she was with, where she was and why she couldn't come to the phone, until all the lies came tumbling down?

Didn't the jury ask themselves that? and if they did, how did they reach the conclusion that Casey is not guilty of anything of anything except for lying to the authorities and obstructing an investigation?

It's a vicious circle - she lied for a reason, but that reason wasn't "proved" to the jury's satisfaction.

The question remains - why did she lie to so many people for so long about something so basic to any person, let alone a mother, when their toddler goes "missing"?

I believe the defense invoked a "tragic accident". I have two problems with that defense:

1. "accident" - certainly it could have happened, as it does all over the world, but people don't try to hide accidents, they try to help the victim - any victim - especially their own defensless toddlers, unless...

2. "tragic" - I don't think so, considering how she partied and shopped and tattooed and... whatever else, while her 2 year old daughter was "missing" or "kidnapped".

The argument that everyone grieves in different ways doesn't cut it, IMO - it's just the first line of defense for inappropriate behaviour and/or affect from a guilty party - or at least a party who is guilty of something which would drastically affect their chances of an acquittal.

My opinion: I strongly disagree with the verdict.
 
Because it was a murder & not an accident... Sorry, had to spell that out for the jurors.

I tended to go with murder as well, for a very long time, in fact - ever since I knew of Caylee's disappearance. It made the news in Australia as well :)

That a mother didn't report her 2 year old "missing" because she was... "using her own resources to find her" (words to that effect) made me sit up and listen straightaway, and I've been following the case ever since.

I'm not sure it was deliberate, though the chlroform (regardless of 1 search or 84) comes into it. Add shovel borrowed from eighbour to (according to Cindy Anthony) break down bamboo roots... in a house where Casey was no longer living... need I add more? Oh, OK - let's say she cared very much about her parents' lawn :)

How much did she care about her child? Or was the shovel for another purpose?

And how did the jury miss that one?
 
The jury wasn't searching for truth, they were searching for an exit. They were fine while the wine and dine didn't require anything of them but their presence. When the closing speeches were over and the court required them to deliberate, they chose the fast track and liberated FCA so they could head for home.
Little Caylee Marie was forgotten in their race to get away. It seems they never gave a thought to Caylee Marie, just like mommie ~ out of sight, out of mind.
IMO
 
Here Cindy is a nurse, you would think her daughter's symptoms would be obvious, then evaluated and then treated. Here, Casey is in charge of a child living in her fantasy world with a poor sense of reality. It's like enough of the sympathy cover up for Casey stuff Cindy and lets take care of first things first Cindy. Take Caylee away and worry about nutso Casey later until she can get her attention from the right person. Is this possible? And George, what the heck were you doing? Lee was too busy feeling sorry for himself. What a vegetable.
Two years with some babysitter that was total bull, never existed. How could Cindy be that stupid?
 
Just one more reason why the SA charged FKC .......

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...after_nearly_drowning_being_underwater_.html?

This child spent 15 minutes or more floating two feet underwater, deprived of oxygen, and was clinically dead for at least half an hour. He has made a complete recovery.

Remind me again why 911 wasn't called?



How come they didn't carry the boy around the parking lot looking to scold his parents instead? Look at what you have done...you let this child get sucked out to sea by riptide...and the parents cried and cried.
 
It wasn't just a "theory" floated by the jury, it was backed by evidence AND that was precisely the jury's job to figure out if it was there. They knew the duct tape was there. They knew the decomp was in that trunk but because of the way the chloroform evidence was presented, it was very confusing. I get that so, why didn't ask for clarification? Without the video of the act itself, it's not how she died that was the problem, it was if she died while in her mother's care. There wasn't even any consideration given to the fact that FCA never even reported it! To this day, she hasn't reported it! She hasn't had anything to offer for an explanation until the opening of the trial with the BS story of SODDI.

Just a little logic.......that was the jury's job. Even if you took the chloroform out of the picture, there was still plenty there to deduce that Caylee was in an environment that was unsafe for her well-being. Decomp in your trunk and duct tape on your child do not bode well for "good parenting". So, if your argument is that the jury should have had everything put together FOR them, I disagree vehemently. They did not do their job. The prosecution did the best they could to show the jury this did not happen to Caylee because SODDI.

I don't think the state proved conclusively that Casey used duct tape on Caylee. They did not exclude everyone else except Casey to that duct tape. The trunk is a different matter. I agree that the jury dismissed the evidence that there was decomp in the trunk. The state relied on new evidence collection (air samples) as a smoking gun, the same way the OJ trial relied on new evidence collection (DNA) at the time. Both trials resulted in the same result.

I can't fault the jury if they didn't see Vass' testimony as proof there was a body in the trunk. I also can't fault them for not trusting non-experts (GA, car storage guy) when they say it smelled like a dead body in there. I can fault them on dismissing the dogs because that is not new technology, I wish the state emphasized that more.

I wish GA distanced himself more from any accusations the defense threw at him. But it didn't appear that way half the time. He didn't always sound sincere IMO.
 
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