The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #4

[pcrum12]

Then why did she tell Tony it was in the shop later while it was still at Amscott. Why didn't she just put gas in and use it? More likely, she couldn't stand the smell which is why she told Amy her dad ran over squirrels. Why say anything about a smell if she didn't eventually expect to have to cover one? Telling Amy was cover. Driving the car was impossible because it smelled of death. She couldn't stand it herself or risk having someone else start asking questions about it. The lie was that the smell came from squirrels, when KC knew darn well what it really came from. The jury ignored KC's own testimony through her action of abandoning the car. Other people smelled it later, but she smelled it first.

My post was in reference to the car being out of gas. Not it smelled. I have no doubt it smelled. I believe Caylee was in the car at some point.

 

[LambChop]

And TL did offer to help and KC lied and said her Dad was taking care of it so she had no plans to go back. They had to ride past Amscot on the way to drop TL off at the airport so KC knew the car would be gone by then.

One thing that is interesting is that the lady from the office said the car was parked there at 7am on the 27th when she came into work. She noted it, probably thinking it had been there all night. But KC had frozen chicken from her home freezer with her so KC had to have gone back her home when she felt no one was there and brought the car back by 11:00 and then called TL. That would also rule out she just happened to run out of gas at that point because the car was already parked there once earlier in the morning. jmo

 

[RR0004]

I wonder why Casey didn't get gas when there was a gas station pretty much right next door? I'm sure the good samaritans would have helped her...if they existed. JMHO

 

[LambChop]

And it was just that. A configuration that it Could have been placed that way. JMO

Not so much could as was. The piece on the bottom covered the mandible and held it in place and was shaped around the jaw, the other two pieces were placed above that. She had a very small face for three pieces of duct tape placed one on top of another not to have covered her nose and mouth. Then there is Dr. G comment about there was no reasonable reason for the duct tape to have even been there. So holding the mandible in place and around her face and entangled in her hair. That would be enough for me not to doubt it was on her face and likely the cause of death.

Also lack of explanation from KC confirms it for me. We can speculate all we want but KC silence speaks volumes. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I wonder why Casey didn't get gas when there was a gas station pretty much right next door? I'm sure the good samaritans would have helped her...if they existed. JMHO

All she had to do was call her father. We know from her phone logs she was calling him but failed to mention she did not have the car. Funny she never mentioned the car, oh wait, she did. She told her mother she was in Jacksonville and JMH had brought it to the garage to have some work done on it.

Let face it you just can't compartmentalize some of these incidents and make excuses for KC. You have to look at the overall picture. KC lied about almost everything. She knew she would get caught, eventually, but just did not care. She was on a binge and just did not care who she hurt or why. KC just wanted to have fun. Myself, I think Caylee died in a fit of rage (we have seen KC in that state, ourselves). After she disposed of the body it was lets see how far I can get without getting caught and when I do I'll just lie my way out of it. I have nothing to lose. jmo

 

[yolorado]

I have read and re-read and re-re-read the autopsy. I've followed the case from day 1. The autopsy states it can be INFERRED that the tape was over the mouth and nose. If you check my post you can re-read my theory and thoughts.

Yes, inferred, because duct tape was found in close proximately, because the mandible and and greater skull were found together and because of the shape and configuration of the duct tape mass, which the prosecution displayed in court would conform to little Caylee's skull. Dr G could do nothing but INFER since KC didn't report the baby killed or otherwise dead immediately and/ or before she threw her away in the swamp to rot and be scattered by water and animals. In fact KC NEVER reported her missing at all. There were no paramedics, mortitians, coroners or other witnesses who could confirm the absence or presence of duct tape on the child's face at or about the time of death. If KC took pictures of dead Caylee with or without duct tape, she's never shared them with the authorities. Plus, to this day, KC has never said exactly what happened, other than the baby was kidnapped ... from Sawgrass, or from J Blanchard, by someone from NY or NC, or someplace the law wasn't looking, or that Jesse couldn't be trusted about it. Actually, she did say it was NOT an accident before her lawyer said it was (three years later.) Her lawyer said accident and penis, but who doesn't call 911 to try to help or save their baby, and if they don't why isn't THAT alone not child abuse resulting in death? I think it would be. However, this is a jury that let itself be convinced that 'inferring' wasn't allowed in spite of jury instructions regarding circumstantial evidence to the contrary. I, therefore, infer this jury didn't read the instructions but rather bought into the defense smoke and mirrors shell game bushwah that ANY doubt makes conviction unreasonable.

 

[yolorado]

I wonder why Casey didn't get gas when there was a gas station pretty much right next door? I'm sure the good samaritans would have helped her...if they existed. JMHO

To me, the whole running out of gas thing is smoke and mirrors, trying to deflect and distract from more salient and relevant facts. Imo, she didn't run out of gas for all the good reasons WSers have gone into. I'm not even sure that the car was out of gas at the tow yard, but what if it was. It had been sitting around in the hot FL sun for a long time. Maybe it evaporated. Maybe it was siphoned. Maybe it wasn't really out of gas, but didn't start, if it didn't, for some other reason--vapor lock, some other car thing. Real fact the distraction was aimed for-- She abandoned the car because it smelled like death because the baby had been in the car dead and because she was the last one to have custody of the child alive. We know it smelled and SHE SMELLED IT because she dumped it and set up cover with Amy. We know she had Caylee alive because Caylee's baby doll was in the car and where Caylee went, Babydoll went too. It Caylee had died in the house (or pool), why was Babydoll in the car?

How much gas did the car have? What explanation would she eventually come up with to cover the smell? Did she have some other plan for leaving the car there? All THAT would be speculation. But we know she left a car that smelled of death containing Caylee's precious baby and never went back. If that doesn't indicate consciousness of guilt, then hey, maybe it really is OK, just fine, in America for your baby to get dead and for you not to do anything but throw her in a swamp.

 

[pcrum12]

I totally agree that Casey should have called 911. I totally agree that it is awful that she put the baby in the woods. However, the prosecution, doc dumps, threads, pictures, autopsy, duct tape, lying, testimony, etc., did not convince me that she murdered the child. There just wasn't any proof of murder. All just my own opinion.

 

[Well Done 99]

Did she know there was no gas in the car? The gas gauge was broken, was it not?

IIRC, the gas gauge was later found to be working LG?
I find it odd how noone ever came forward to say they helped her push the car into the space next to the dumpster. And she wouldn't have been able to do it herself ... she's only about three foot something.

 

[RANCH]

I totally agree that Casey should have called 911. I totally agree that it is awful that she put the baby in the woods. However, the prosecution, doc dumps, threads, pictures, autopsy, duct tape, lying, testimony, etc., did not convince me that she murdered the child. There just wasn't any proof of murder. All just my own opinion.

Well your certainly entitled to your opinion about it not being a murder.So do you believe it was an accident?

 

[runsdeep]

At the point of discovery of the remains, what was the duct tape actually sticking to the hair mat by if nothing sticky remained on the tape?

Surely for the mandible to be in place this duct tape across the skull attached to the hair on either side had to be there rather firm yes? Given it was supposed to of withstood storms, moving water, still water, animals etc. I am a visual person and without the actual picture I have a lot of trouble visualizing this from everyones written accounts.

i dont know where i heard/read this, or if was during testimony or not. but hair takes on a waxy sticky texture during decomposition and that's what adhered to the tape.

 

[pcrum12]

Well your certainly entitled to your opinion about it not being a murder.So do you believe it was an accident?

Yes, I have always thought she drowned. And Casey being Casey freaked and did all the wrong things. Then went on with her life because she is all about herself anyway. JMO

 

[RANCH]

IIRC, the gas gauge was later found to be working LG?

Hi Well Done. You are correct that it was found to be working later. But what about an intermittent problem with the gauge? Hard to say for sure but it's a possibility. It's less of a problem then quitting all together,but I've seen it happen. So whose to say if the Sunfire had gas in the tank when it was left at the Amscot? Maybe it did and some one stole it. My opinion is that it stunk like hell and KC dumped it. MOO

 

[RANCH]

Yes, I have always thought she drowned. And Casey being Casey freaked and did all the wrong things. Then went on with her life because she is all about herself anyway. JMO

Thanks for your reply. While I can appreciate your not seeing any proof of a murder, I'm a bit confused about you believing it to be an accidental drowning. What I'm failing to see is proof of an accidental drowning.

 

[Well Done 99]

Hi Well Done. You are correct that it was found to be working later. But what about an intermittent problem with the gauge? Hard to say for sure but it's a possibility. It's less of a problem then quitting all together,but I've seen it happen. So whose to say if the Sunfire had gas in the tank when it was left at the Amscot? Maybe it did and some one stole it. My opinion is that it stunk like hell and KC dumped it. MOO

Yes, you're right RANCH. I've had a car myself in the past which had those on and off problems - and often showed more than it actually contained (it works from a sensor in the tank (which can itself be faulty)
Thanks

 

[logicalgirl]

I have read and re-read and re-re-read the autopsy. I've followed the case from day 1. The autopsy states it can be INFERRED that the tape was over the mouth and nose. If you check my post you can re-read my theory and thoughts.

Oh I think you misunderstood - I understand at least I think I do that you wanted an actual picture of the tape on her mouth. I was simply letting you know that for me - my opinion - is that I don't agree with you. I'll go with Dr. G. and the specialists who were able to rebuild Caylee's face, take the tape measurements and IMO accurately - based on the placement in the hair, describe where it was originally placed. That's all. I can respect that you have a different opinion than mine.

 

[Aedrys]

Oh I think you misunderstood - I understand at least I think I do that you wanted an actual picture of the tape on her mouth. I was simply letting you know that for me - my opinion - is that I don't agree with you. I'll go with Dr. G. and the specialists who were able to rebuild Caylee's face, take the tape measurements and IMO accurately - based on the placement in the hair, describe where it was originally placed. That's all. I can respect that you have a different opinion than mine.

ITA. I highly doubt the mandible was held there by magic. There is no other plausible explanation for the mandible still being attached to the skull other than the placement of the duct tape, and we have argued this endlessly in several threads now. It's getting extremely old to keep arguing it.

 

[AngelWings444]

It's the TOTALITY of the evidence that points to FCA murdering Caylee. It's the totality of it all, everything, before, during and after the trial. It continues to this day. There is no other explanation, yet they continue to try to buy one.

I've yet to see one shred of evidence it was an accident. The fact the A's, FCA, attorney's, and others, continue to change their story, proves it wasn't an accident. :thud:

 

[LambChop]

Oh I think you misunderstood - I understand at least I think I do that you wanted an actual picture of the tape on her mouth. I was simply letting you know that for me - my opinion - is that I don't agree with you. I'll go with Dr. G. and the specialists who were able to rebuild Caylee's face, take the tape measurements and IMO accurately - based on the placement in the hair, describe where it was originally placed. That's all. I can respect that you have a different opinion than mine.

I think what Dr. G would tell us in layman's terms is that there is no other explanation for the tape to be where it was, given the length of three strips pasted one on top of the other than it was over the mouth and nose. There was no logical reason for the tape to have been on Caylee's face period other than to tape up her nose and mouth. The tape was holding the jaw in place. The tape was not there for decoration, unlike the heart-shaped sticker. Caylee could have drowned on her own or KC could have held her under water until she drowned but we have no proof that happened. What we do have is physical evidence of duct tape on a baby's face that should not be there for any logical reason. The duct tape made the case against KC.

I watched CSI while waiting for an oil change on Thursday. I can see why jurors who watch these programs can expect the same type of evidence to be presented to them that leaves no doubt in their minds. It's not always that simple. You have to use your logic and common sense.

Example of what should have been discussed.
All the people who testified they smelled a dead body in the trunk.
Traces of chloroform in the trunk where there should be none.
Duct tape found on the skull but no explanation from DT how it got there.
No explanation from DT how the body got to the site.
No proof there was a drowning.
KC's lies to LE
31 days, etc.

If you look at the total package and really think about what they had as evidence KC should have been found guilty of something. Her child was dead and she took no responsibility to get Caylee help, nor to report it. Logic and common sense seemed to have gone out the window. JB soft-peddled the fact that KC didn't call 911 as if KC made a slight error in judgment. It's a natural instinct for a mother to protect her child regardless of whether the child is dead or still alive. You do it without thought. And this jury bought whatever the DT was selling because it required no effort on their part.

jmo

 

[NotRocketSighence]

In a case involving the death of a toddler - why wouldn't they? We are speaking about reasonable doubt here...

Pushing a car into an Amscot lot does not involve a crime and this case was published nationally. It is unreasonable to assume the good samaritans would not volunteer this information as they could do it quietly without media recognition.

With FL sunshine laws and Nancy Grace and her TH team going up down in out of every oriface of every piece of potential dirt in this case. I seriously doubt anything went quietly without media recognition.

Look at Roy Kronk. (IF) we are to believe he innocently came by the remains and was a good samaritan reporting it. He had his name, his reputation slandered. They delved into his past sexual experiences with his previous partners, his financials etc.