The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

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Snipped to respond to my post.

JB didn't depose him, even if he wanted to. And, from what I understood in trial, he would've been more then able to depose him if it was necessary. But, through further investigation (more likely VT's public statements of not owning that number at the time) it wasn't necessary to get him involved. I'm not sure why there's such an "OMG!" at this, he didn't depose him, he didn't get him involved, and the media (IMO) was the one who started that wildfire. I don't see this as JB looking for another way out. If GA was actually in contact with VT, a known kidnapper, at the time of all of this happening... wouldn't you be upset no one followed up on that? I know I would.

BBM

No he didn't depose him but it was not for his lack of trying!!! JB absolutely WANTED VT deposed and tried like hell to get it done but thankfully VT had enough "common sense" to hire an attorney and get his name cleared! Even Stevie Wonder could've seen that this was JB "looking for another way out"! :floorlaugh:
 
Because I've seen a lot with hospice care, and I've seen a lot of families grieve in different forms when it comes to death of a loved one, it actually does seem reasonable to me.

What seems reasonable to most is there was NO grieving by KFC! None! Zip! Zero!
 
Snipped to respond to my post.

JB didn't depose him, even if he wanted to. And, from what I understood in trial, he would've been more then able to depose him if it was necessary. But, through further investigation (more likely VT's public statements of not owning that number at the time) it wasn't necessary to get him involved. I'm not sure why there's such an "OMG!" at this, he didn't depose him, he didn't get him involved, and the media (IMO) was the one who started that wildfire. I don't see this as JB looking for another way out. If GA was actually in contact with VT, a known kidnapper, at the time of all of this happening... wouldn't you be upset no one followed up on that? I know I would.

If JB knew that Caylee drowned that first day and was never missing, they what would it have mattered if GA had a wrong number call to a kidnapper? I get wrong number calls and make wrong number calls. If VT had have been the number that GA had on his phone list. Would it have been fair if VT would have been thrown out there as a possibility? If GA had accidentally dialed your number would you like to go out there and defend yourself? KC and JB knew what happened to Caylee and to toss doubt and imply that innocent people where involved was inexcusable. How can you think that is right?
 
Though KC never testified at trial, she effectively told her story over years in big letters. Her story was that (1) she was the last person in her family to have custody of Caylee, (2) she smelled death in her car which apparently smelled so bad that she abandoned it...leaving Caylee's car seat and precious baby doll which Caylee took everywhere with her (reasonably wouldn't have left the A's that morning without it.) For 31 days, KC acts as if nothing is wrong and never reports her child missing until after her mother does it first. During that time, she is relaxed and happy, full of stories about the happy baby...with Zanny or with Granny. She tells one lie after another to the police after the missing child report. She allows people to fly in from all over the country to search for her missing baby. She lets someone bail her out of jail so that she can help search. Eventually, Baby turns up dead, in a swamp, in clothing KC had access to, probably kept in her car not in the home, duct-taped with tape from the family home, wrapped in the baby's blanket, bagged and sacked in a container like one KC kept in her car and baby location was where KC used to bury her little pets with Kio. There is absolutely no talk of an accident from KC until three years later. I think she's told us, by her actions and in-actions what killed that baby and who did it. Too bad the jury didn't listen to her.
 
BBM

No he didn't depose him but it was not for his lack of trying!!! JB absolutely WANTED VT deposed and tried like hell to get it done but thankfully VT had enough "common sense" to hire an attorney and get his name cleared! Even Stevie Wonder could've seen that this was JB "looking for another way out"! :floorlaugh:

bbm!


:great::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
What seems reasonable to most is there was NO grieving by KFC! None! Zip! Zero!

What Casey was exhibiting, IMO, is inappropriate grieving. Many people party after they lose their loved ones. Heck, when my great uncle passed away everyone in my family went to the bar... us kids included. Adults had drinks and us kids were left to the pool table.
 
What Casey was exhibiting, IMO, is inappropriate grieving. Many people party after they lose their loved ones. Heck, when my great uncle passed away everyone in my family went to the bar... us kids included. Adults had drinks and us kids were left to the pool table.

This was her two-year old daughter, not someone in hospice, or someone that had been sick for a while, or an elderly person...her two year old daughter.
 
You are correct, those are the facts the prosecution made but not the facts the SA used in their determination of premeditated. The act of cutting the duct tape and placing it strip by strip over Caylee's nose and mouth alone made it premeditated.
The SA did not present any information as to what was the "final straw" to the individual you have kindly outlined above in the material bolded above. That was to discuss her frame of mind, what she wanted in her life, and how she viewed her child.
Yes, they used the duck tape as premeditation but then couldn't prove when the duck tape was applied. (the duck tape was their theory, the murder weapon) Their theory wasn't 10 minutes of thought, it was a long period of premeditation, like also making chloroform.



Premeditation does not have to included planning. It is that second that caused FCA to not rip the tape off of Caylee's mouth and think what am I doing to my poor child! It was the time it took to place the next two (or three ) strips of tape on her face.

But, you have be considering how the prosecution used premeditation and it wasn't just seconds, or 10 minutes.

Again, premeditation does not have to include long term planning. If it did, anyone who carries a knife of any kind with them could be accused of planning a murder. That reminds me, I'd better remove my swiss army knife out of my backpack lest someone accuse me of some kind of nefarious planning re my hiking companions....

I understand what you are saying, the prosecution laid out their theory and it was a theory that took alot of time and thought not just spur of the moment.
 
LE arrives and fans out to talk to everyone in the house. You have Casey repeatedly telling them she left her child with Zanny. All the while they're in and out of the garage, smelling something but nothing for them to be concerned of. Now... think for a minute... you're LE, you responding to a call from CA about Grand Theft. You're all prepared to investigate a car theft, but when you arrive you realize this "car theft" has turned into a kidnapping? And, you're smelling something but you don't investigate it... and I'm suppose to believe 3 years later that you believe that smell to be of human decomposition? Let alone the fact that they weren't alerted through 911 that the car smelled like a dead body? I'm not buying that 911 forgot to relay that important piece of information.

And even if we continued further, you bring Casey to the supposed place she dropped her daughter off and find out no one is there. (I don't recall if they found out then that no one lived there in months, but at the very least no one is there now and there's no activity or car belonging to Zanny). So, you return to the house for another hour or so, and it still hasn't occurred to you maybe the car smells like a dead body?

And, after that you leave Casey in the house and do your investigative work. You find out Casey doesn't work at Universal (or her imaginary friends), you find out no one has lived in that apartment for months, you then invite Casey to Universal to continue with your investigation... but in the meantime you don't follow up on the tip that the car smells like a dead body and send some uniforms over there to secure the car? Nope, lets do that later when we have more time... :waitasec:

The Sunfire was secured at 7:20pm on 7/16/08 and towed to OCSO CSI arriving at 7:48pm on the same day as Detectives Allen/Wells were with FCA at Universal in the afternoon wasting time on all of her lies. During the day on the 16th, they were looking for a live Caylee and running down some of FCA's other lies. And acccording to your theory of no decomp in the trunk, why would LE have need to secure the car at all ? I hardly think impounding the car on the same day is a big deal ...
 
Though KC never testified at trial, she effectively told her story over years in big letters. Her story was that (1) she was the last person in her family to have custody of Caylee, (2) she smelled death in her car which apparently smelled so bad that she abandoned it...leaving Caylee's car seat and precious baby doll which Caylee too everywhere with her (reasonably wouldn't have left the A's that morning without it.) For 31 days, KC acts as if nothing is wrong and never reports her child missing until after her mother does it first. During that time, she is relaxed and happy, full of stories about the happy baby...with Zanny or with Granny. She tells one lie after another to the police after the missing child report. She allows people to fly in from all over the country to search for her missing baby. She lets someone bail her out of jail so that she can help search. Eventually, Baby turns up dead, in a swamp, in clothing KC had access to, probably kept in her car not in the home, duct-taped with tape from the family home, wrapped in the baby's blanket, bagged and sacked in a container like one KC kept in her car and baby location was where KC used to bury her little pets with Kio. There is absolutely no talk of an accident from KC until three years later. I think she's told up, by her actions and in-actions what killed that baby and who did it. Too bad the jury didn't listed to her.

bbm

And then she NEVER searched for Caylee..She didn't want anyone else searching for her either especially not an expert like Tim Miller..That says it all!
 
Ok, let me see if I get the new rules. If a baby dies accidentally, no problem whatsoever. No need to call 911. You'll still be a "good mother" even if you don't. No need to notify friends and relatives or to hold a memorial service. Just lie to everyone that baby is alive somewhere else. No need to bury the child...any nearby swamp will do. Grieve by acting normal and happy. Police are called, don't tell them what actually happened was an accident, make up lies to make it look like a crime has been committed. Is this really ok in the USA in 2011? It must be, because heck if she didn't get away with that story and those actions. I despair of this jury and the system that put it in place.
 
Though KC never testified at trial, she effectively told her story over years in big letters. Her story was that (1) she was the last person in her family to have custody of Caylee, (2) she smelled death in her car which apparently smelled so bad that she abandoned it...leaving Caylee's car seat and precious baby doll which Caylee took everywhere with her (reasonably wouldn't have left the A's that morning without it.) For 31 days, KC acts as if nothing is wrong and never reports her child missing until after her mother does it first. During that time, she is relaxed and happy, full of stories about the happy baby...with Zanny or with Granny. She tells one lie after another to the police after the missing child report. She allows people to fly in from all over the country to search for her missing baby. She lets someone bail her out of jail so that she can help search. Eventually, Baby turns up dead, in a swamp, in clothing KC had access to, probably kept in her car not in the home, duct-taped with tape from the family home, wrapped in the baby's blanket, bagged and sacked in a container like one KC kept in her car and baby location was where KC used to bury her little pets with Kio. There is absolutely no talk of an accident from KC until three years later. I think she's told us, by her actions and in-actions what killed that baby and who did it. Too bad the jury didn't listen to her.

yolorado,
---:yourock:


BBM!
 
What Casey was exhibiting, IMO, is inappropriate grieving. Many people party after they lose their loved ones. Heck, when my great uncle passed away everyone in my family went to the bar... us kids included. Adults had drinks and us kids were left to the pool table.
Was your great uncle 2 and 1/2 years old and supposedly the love of your life ? Was there a hot body contest on top of the pool table ? I presume you're speaking of a gathering after a wake/funeral, not after a supposed accident ? Those are accepted events and I've been to a few of those myself. Difference is everyone was there and everyone KNEW that the person had died. Spin it any way you want, what FCA was doing after Caylee died was celebrating ... celebrating that the ball and chain around her ankle was removed and she could party and hang out with her friends sans Caylee.
 
bbm

And then she NEVER searched for Caylee..She didn't want anyone else searching for her either especially not an expert like Tim Miller..That says it all!

Remember that she wanted to search ... w/o the media or the police following her around. Why was that ? ... probably so she could move the body ...
 
I'm not sure what the post is getting at or anything. With the posts, I feel like I'm being "schooled"... but there is no need. I've relistened and posted LE testimony of their first day there. They smelled something, but it was not concerning enough to call in CSI, figure out where this smell was coming from, and secure the car. When the car was in the tow yard, SB testified to smelling this before contacting the A's, while getting the VIN number from the car. He didn't feel the need to contact authorities then. He also didn't feel the need or urgency to contact the authorities when GA opened up the car and the smell was even stronger. GA didn't feel the need to call LE when he opened the car at the tow yard, or when he sat in the car and drove it home. He also didn't alert them when he was in the shower getting ready to go for work. CA didn't feel the need to alert the authorities before she left for work, while at work, and before she brought Casey home. GA didn't feel the need to contact Casey about the smell in the car, although he claimed relief his granddaughter and daughter were not in the trunk. So relieved he didn't want to call up his daughter, or even text her??

Keep the questions coming, that's fine. But the questions make no difference to the actions of the people who were suppose to know what human decomposition smelled like and they did nothing.

Sorta like CFCA knowing what a Mother would do when thier child drowns and doing nothing!!!!
 
Thank you for answering. At first I too believed it was an accident and if you look at each piece of evidence independent of all other evidence, yes you can pick it apart, but to me I had to start looking at all the evidence overall. There was no evidence of a drowning or any other type of accident. The prosecution did the best they could with the physical evidence that they had. There was no DNA where Caylee was found because of the length of time and the weather during that time. What kind of evidence would it have taken for you to believe that KC killed Caylee? If her body had been found earlier and her DNA such as a hair was found on Caylee...she was KC's child, so her DNA would have bound to have been there. Is it just so out of the realm of sense that any mother would do that so you can't believe KC would?

The evidence, for me, didn't prove a premeditation murder. I strictly base my opinion on the evidence in the trial. Even if you take away the possibility for drowning, I still think that Caylee died from an accidental death. I think it was possibly involuntary manslaughter. The prosecution had a theory and they have to stick to that theory and the charges that they charged. They can't turn back. There are so many innocent people in prison. The prosecution has a job to do and a guilty verdict is what they are after.

KC was responsible for Caylee since she was her only parent raising her. Caylee is dead. Caylee was found in two trash bags and a laundry bag thrown out on the sided of the road. KC lied to her friends the entire time that Caylee was "missing". KC stole from her best friend to shop and buy stuff for her and her new boyfriend. KC partied and was in a hot body contest while she knew her child had just died. There was duct tape in Caylee's hair where the body was found. KC told the police that she knew her mom would never forgive her and that she would never forgive herself. KC told all her friends that Caylee was at the beach, at Universal while she was in a trash bag on the side of the road. KC is not a nice person. I was never for her receiving the death penalty, but we never even got that far. Yes, the truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers. I don't want this case to be remembered for what KC got away with or what KC is doing now or how unfairly KC was bombarded by media and attention. I want this case to be remembered for a two year old child that had her life unfairly come to an end and that she never got the chance to grow up.

There have to be a connection to kC with the prosecutions theory, and there wasn't.
 
You are right - it was brought up at trial as a theory during an opening statement by the Defense Team, and no evidence was admitted, so this supposed sexual abuse was never mentioned after that, because there was absolutely no evidence to admit.

So, you don't know if GA did or didn't - and my point was - I don't know if you did or didn't either, ya know? But people talk and talk, cause there is something about sexual abuse that is interesting to folks and what's a reputation a person has to live with for the rest of their lives, and so what if it isn't true, right?

So you are saying it would be okay if someone floated the same theory about you - someone who say had some kind of beef with you about something entirely different. You wouldn't mind if this kind of thing was said about you? My statement was not to offend anyone, but have them think before repeated this really foul lie.

And sure, FCA was free to do what she pleased for the first time in three years - that easily explains her attitude in the 31 days. She had freedom finally from the child she referred to as "that little snothead".

I'm trying to keep up with this thread...so forgive me if I'm way out of order.:crazy:
I agreed with you 110% in my last post. So at this point I'm not sure what to say. Abuse was bought up in the trial. I put it in as one Possible option. A theory. That's all. Just like people bring up xanax and overdose.

I like to think about all the options. That's why I like to read these threads. Sometimes my opinions changes about certain things.
 
What Casey was exhibiting, IMO, is inappropriate grieving. Many people party after they lose their loved ones. Heck, when my great uncle passed away everyone in my family went to the bar... us kids included. Adults had drinks and us kids were left to the pool table.
That is typical grieving behavior. Loved ones getting together who shared in a persons life. Very common to do it in a bar.
 
BBM

JMO, but if there's a general discredit to the pictures of Caylee climbing the ladder and the fact that there were no child locks on the doors to the back yard, then in all fairness I believe a photo-shopped video of a super-imposed image should be discredited to. Again, JMO. :)

I may have missed it, but I don't think people are discrediting that ladder picture or that lock info. At least I'm not, I just do not consider either evidence of anything other than the fact that she could climb a ladder with CA's help, and for some reason they didn't use locks.

There was, however, sworn testimony about the skull and the making of that video, so I assume you're accusing them of perjury?
 
What Casey was exhibiting, IMO, is inappropriate grieving. Many people party after they lose their loved ones. Heck, when my great uncle passed away everyone in my family went to the bar... us kids included. Adults had drinks and us kids were left to the pool table.

Not just inappropriate grieving
But
Lying to different people at different about Caylees location
Sending LE on searches to find fake nannys fake friends and fake jobs
Spending money that wasn't hers to buy beer, pizza and clothes for herself


All of this plus hair of Caylee found in trunk with death band. Small of death in car according to Jo Jo, Cindy LE trained dogs and a dude that owned a waste mgt company.

Her actions were so appropriate for someone who murdered her daughter


:banghead:
 
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