The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

[Sustained]

Complicated grief
The sadness of losing someone you love never goes away completely, but it shouldn’t remain center stage. If the pain of the loss is so constant and severe that it keeps you from resuming your life, you may be suffering from a condition known as complicated grief. Complicated grief is like being stuck in an intense state of mourning. You may have trouble accepting the death long after it has occurred or be so preoccupied with the person who died that it disrupts your daily routine and undermines your other relationships.

Symptoms of complicated grief include:

Intense longing and yearning for the deceased
-- Jailhouse interview "I feel that she's close and will be home soon"

Intrusive thoughts or images of your loved one
-- Deleting Facebook pics; better dump the car at Amscot; better get shovel and bury Caylee in backyard

Denial of the death or sense of disbelief
-- The Zanny the nanny story or jailhouse interview comment "Surprise, Surprise"

Imagining that your loved one is alive
-- The imaginary phone call on 7/15 from Caylee

Searching for the person in familiar places
-- Fusian nightclub, TL's apartment, 4th of July party, Target

Avoiding things that remind you of your loved one
-- 4937 Hopespring Drive

Extreme anger or bitterness over the loss
-- Jailhouse interview ... "My whole life has been taken from me !!"

Feeling that life is empty or meaningless
-- See Extreme Anger or bitterness

Yep, must have been complicated grief that set in on FCA ...

 

[Sustained]

There was sworn testimony from CA stating Caylee could climb the stairs on her own now, the pictures were from the year before.

I'm not sure where the perjury is coming from, or what the sworn testimony was that you're referring to. The video was shown to imply the possibility of the duct tape being over the mouth, just like the pictures and testimony of not child proofing the doors was shown to imply the possibility of a drowning.

Now CA is a reliable witness, isn't she ?

 

[wonders]

Ohhh, right. Sworn tesitimony testimony from Cindy. Because we all know she told the truth during her testimony because she not only said, I do - she said, "I swear to God", right? Bwahaha. :floorlaugh:

Her exact words were "So Help Me God, Yes".
That is just one of the things that tears me up about this whole selling your soal (< spelling ) to the devil. I still can't stand it.

 

[jandkmom]

Yep, must have been complicated grief that set in on FCA ...

lol...that was too funny!!!!!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Wise Old Owl]

There was sworn testimony from CA stating Caylee could climb the stairs on her own now, the pictures were from the year before.

I'm not sure where the perjury is coming from, or what the sworn testimony was that you're referring to. The video was shown to imply the possibility of the duct tape being over the mouth, just like the pictures and testimony of not child proofing the doors was shown to imply the possibility of a drowning.

BBM

The perjury came from CA testifying that she was home and made the chloroform searches. LDB went so far as to fly in the big whigs from CA's employer who then testified that she (CA) was most definitely at work on the days she (CA) testified as to being at home and conducting the computer searches.

CA consistently over the course of the 3 years lied to LE and to the media. She made horribly rude and inconsiderate statements regarding the general public.

She actually gave LE the wrong hairburshes when they asked for something with Caylee's DNA.

As far as CA's credibility goes. I trust her about as much as I trust FCA. They both have no clue what swearing to tell the truth means.

JMHO

 

[Sustained]

Every time I find myself mired in the details of this case, all I have do to snap myself back to reality is to read YM's investigation report.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf

There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that this lying, thieving, self-serving, user of a mother killed her daughter so that her enabler of a mother could not either kick her & Caylee out of the house or take custody of Caylee. We call people like that "pond scum" where I come from ...

 

[Italy]

Being logical, doesn't it seem that if every single action of Casey's fits like a square peg in a round hole as far a grief is concerned ~ but is a perfect template for consciousness of guilt ~ It only makes sense that it is beyond a reasonable doubt that she is covering her own guilt.

We shouldn't have to flail ourselves about to make excuses or find hidden explanations for her actions. She acted guilty in every sense. Occam's Razor and all that.

Thank you Expecting Unicorns.

And for our refresher course:

You've probably heard it before: The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Detectives use it to deduce who's the likeliest suspect in a murder case -- you know, the butler did it. Doctors use it to determine the illness behind a set of symptoms.

This line of reasoning is called Occam's razor. It's used in a wide variety of ways throughout the world as a means to slice through a problem or situation and eliminate unnecessary elements. But what we call the razor is a little different than what its author originally wrote. There are two parts that are considered the basis of Occam's razor, and they were originally written in Latin:

The Principle of Plurality - Plurality should not be posited without necessity
The Principle of Parsimony - It is pointless to do with more what is done with less

Taken together, they represent the basis of humanity's investigation into the universe, and the way we see our environment is largely based upon Occam's razor. There's no telling what kind of world we would live in today without Occam's razor.

 

[Caligram]

I suppose that some would state that because during all the visits FCA had with family when she was behind bars....she never once greeted her family with "is there any news yet?. She knew there was nothing new, just like she whined about herself all the time trying to manipulate her family and tossing those eggshells under them. FCA couldn't summon up the energy it took to pretend she was concerned about her daughter. The jailhouse visits were a farce, everybody knew they were being recorded and were on guard while FCA was under guard. Their conversations became more contrived as they struggled to get through the visit without saying what was really on their minds.

IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Well, I disagree since testimony is considered evidence and CA testified she could climb the latter by herself the summer she passed. The pictures were from the summer before.

Once it was shown that CA lied on the stand a reasonable person could decide not to believe anything she said.

That is what I did and that is what the jury should have done.

 

[beccalecca1]

Well, according to your link KC skipped steps 1-4 and went straight to 5 on the day Caylee died.

The five stages of grief:
Denial: “This can’t be happening to me.”
Anger: “Why is this happening? Who is to blame?”
Bargaining: “Make this not happen, and in return I will ____.”
Depression: “I’m too sad to do anything.”
Acceptance: “I’m at peace with what happened.”

That is the normal grief process. There is a difference with complicated grief process, which is probably why it's called complicated grieving.

 

[RR0004]

http://www.webmd.com/balance/tc/grief-and-grieving-symptoms

Yes, Casey wasn't legally a teen anymore, but I would argue her behavior was that of a teenager (stealing, etc.)

Maybe teens who have criminal tendencies would steal...but I don't know of any, including my own, who would ever steal from a friend.

 

[LinTX]

There was sworn testimony from CA stating Caylee could climb the stairs on her own now, the pictures were from the year before.

I'm not sure where the perjury is coming from, or what the sworn testimony was that you're referring to. The video was shown to imply the possibility of the duct tape being over the mouth, just like the pictures and testimony of not child proofing the doors was shown to imply the possibility of a drowning.

CA also testified that she googled chloroform, but whether Caylee could or couldn't climb the stairs does not even approach proof of drowning, IMO.

The tape and the skull were physical evidence, the drowning was an unsupported theory. The pictures? Nothing, IMO.

OCSO testified about what steps were taken to insure the dimensions were accurate, so if you don't accept that you must think they perjured themselves. But if you think that physical evidence and implications of duct tape matching a dead toddler's face & mouth equal to 'evidence' of a drowning simply because the child could possibly climb a ladder by herself, I'm at a loss.

 

[beccalecca1]

BBM

The perjury came from CA testifying that she was home and made the chloroform searches. LDB went so far as to fly in the big whigs from CA's employer who then testified that she (CA) was most definitely at work on the days she (CA) testified as to being at home and conducting the computer searches.

CA consistently over the course of the 3 years lied to LE and to the media. She made horribly rude and inconsiderate statements regarding the general public.

She actually gave LE the wrong hairburshes when they asked for something with Caylee's DNA.

As far as CA's credibility goes. I trust her about as much as I trust FCA. They both have no clue what swearing to tell the truth means.

JMHO

the question was in regards to if I thought the super-imposed video was perjury. <modsip>

 

[Italy]

Being logical, doesn't it seem that if every single action of Casey's fits like a square peg in a round hole as far a grief is concerned ~ but is a perfect template for consciousness of guilt ~ It only makes sense that it is beyond a reasonable doubt that she is covering her own guilt.

We shouldn't have to flail ourselves about to make excuses or find hidden explanations for her actions. She acted guilty in every sense. Occam's Razor and all that.

I appreciate this post so much. Your comments simply and eloquently discredit the naysayers. Thank you - well said. ... and I love the Occam's Razor reference.

 

[RueMoira]

Why did KC abandon her car and leave the trash in the trunk?

 

[RueMoira]

Facts not disputible.

Fact: KC said that she had a Nanny. (even prior to the whole kidnapping story)
Fact: KC lied about having a Nanny.

Fact: KC said she had a job.
Fact: KC lied about having a job.

Fact: KC said that JH had a son Zach.
Fact: KC lied about JH having a son Zach.

Fact: KC gave elaborate details about Zanny and her relatives, where she lived, what she looked like, etc,
Fact: KC lied about all those things.

Fact: KC said that Caylee was with Zanny.
Fact: KC lied about where Caylee was.

Fact: KC said she spoke to Caylee during the 31 days.
Fact: KC lied, Caylee was already dead.

Fact: KC said she knew in her gut that Caylee was alive.
Fact: KC lied, she knew Caylee was already dead.

Fact: KC claimed that Caylee was forcefully taken from her at Park
Fact: KC lied about the park abduction.

Fact: KC told AH she must have been sleep walking and mislaid her money.
Fact: KC lied to AH, she stole her money.

In fact, KC lied about every aspect of her life. Especially, when it benefitted her or when she was trapped.

However, for some reason I can not fathom, we are to believe her when she tells a story, which if believed will benefit her and free her.

Let's say it again, SHE LIES WHEN IT WILL BENEFIT HER THE MOST OR WHEN SHE IS TRAPPED!

Fact: KC claims she was molested.
Fact: You fill in the space this time.

Fact: KC claims Caylee drowned.
Fact: You fill in the space....

 

[beccalecca1]

I appreciate this post so much. Your comments simply and eloquently discredit the naysayers. Thank you - well said. ... and I love the Occam's Razor reference.

Why is it easier to think a mother murdered her child, drove around with her for a few days, then dumped her child in a swamp..... and not easier to think the child accidently drowned?

 

[RR0004]

That is the normal grief process. There is a difference with complicated grief process, which is probably why it's called complicated grieving.

Complicated grieving is more often than not extended or prolonged grieving...grieving past what's considered the "normal" period of time. We (general term) can always try and make something fit...but in this case, with Casey...her sociopathy fits just as easily in explaining her behavior. Considering she lied, stole, demonstrated a lack of empathy for anyone including her family, and had a daughter who ended up dead...I think the later has a better fit.

 

[coco puff]

http://www.journeyofhearts.org/grief/warnings.html

According to the link, any action or inaction can be a sign of grieving. What a stroke of luck for KC.

I simply can't buy that the act of lying about the demise of your baby to police and family can be called grieving.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That is the normal grief process. There is a difference with complicated grief process, which is probably why it's called complicated grieving.

It is called complicated grieving because they needed to define something to make money off of. They are really making an industry off of grief now days. Specialist everywhere with all kinds of definitions.

Try to pin them down on a real definition is like reaching in a barrel of eels. Ashton did a great job pointing that out by getting her to admit any response, any reaction by a person could fall into the spectrum of grieving.