Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh? #3

[Flossie JMO]

Their male child.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I want so much for this not to be a family abduction. But this Johnny seems too quiet after having moved. But his statement I can't ignore. How did Ron steal his own child from this man? That statement accusing him of doing so is way out of bounds as he didn't father this child.

Why was Crystal living with TN at her house in her early teen years if she has two parents Marie and Johnny/Marty? If you can't raise your own kids, why try to raise someone elses? I ask as it sets in my mind what could have led up to a family abduction.

I think we need theorists threads, Ex: "The Family Abduction Theorists", "The Stranger Abduction Theorists" and "Ron and Misty are Guilty Theorists" to keep these theories straight. As we don't have much info, so we're all theorizing basically for days as it's all we have to do in Haleigh's case when we get any new information adding it to or against or own theories.

 

[elle1919]

Which is only to say that they need someone else to confirm it. Says to me they believe whoever gave the tip that they at least suspected Misty wasn't home, but not that they have knowledge of where she was.

I believe this tip came from Tommy. Thanks Flossie. That helped confirm it for me.

Debs if you are interested in the reading about when Hankjr decided to inform PCSO about his trip down to the MH on February 9th you can read it directly from this interview here: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...asnt_home_the_night_haleigh_cummings_vanished

snip~Twenty-three-year-old Hank “Tommy” Croslin Jr. told detectives Thursday that his sister’s then-boyfriend, Ronald Cummings, called from work to ask about her whereabouts. In the interview, he told detectives he went to the Satsuma mobile home about 9:45 p.m. to find his sister.

Ronald Cummings’ attorney said Tuesday that Cummings did not ask Croslin to check where she was and had been in touch with her during the evening.

Terry Shoemaker said Cummings simply called the Croslins just before 9 p.m. to ask if his girlfriend was there. Croslin was not asked to check on his sister in the call that lasted 20 to 30 seconds. ~end snip

and this from same article snip~In the interview at the Putnam County jail where he is being held on a grand theft charge, Croslin told detectives he went down the street and banged on Cummings’ door about an hour after talking to Cummings, but no one answered.

Bowling said it is the first time anyone has said they went to the mobile home after Cummings’ grandmother Annette Sykes left about 7:30 p.m.

“He told us he banged on the door,” Bowling said. “He said it was dark and no lights were on.”

Detectives were told no one came to the door.

“It is surprising that someone would hold that information,” Bowling said.

Lisa Croslin said she had not heard about the call in the seven months since Haleigh disappeared and found that puzzling but did not have an explanation.~ end snip

Bowling is with Law Enforcement and the specific words that he uses in his statement support the information that Tommy could not have given this information to Law Enforcement many months ago. Hope that helps clear it up.

 

[Malesherbes]

I want so much for this not to be a family abduction. But this Johnny seems too quiet after having moved. But his statement I can't ignore. How did Ron steal his own child from this man? That statement accusing him of doing so is way out of bounds as he didn't father this child.

So you state you want so much for this NOT to be a family abduction, and I just think, well, what is better, family or a sexual predator? I pray everyday, numerous times a day that she was taken by her family and is being hidden, and taken care of, ALIVE- and is not being tortured by some sicko-
jmo

 

[KOOL LOOK]

There is no better scenerio to comfort me in Haleighs whereabouts whether it be family or stranger. A family member that would criminally remove this child without regards for the law, Haleigh and her family is disturbing as something would be very wrong mentally with that person who thought for one second that's the proper way to handle a situation.

We have courts and laws to handle things we believe aren't right. Haleigh was happy, healthy and prospering. So if it was a family member, they were lying to themselves and possibly others (underground) to justify their own actions. That person would then have to lie to Haleigh on a daily basis, which she deserves better.

 

[debs]

Debs if you are interested in the reading about when Hankjr decided to inform PCSO about his trip down to the MH on February 9th you can read it directly from this interview here: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...asnt_home_the_night_haleigh_cummings_vanished

snip~Twenty-three-year-old Hank “Tommy” Croslin Jr. told detectives Thursday that his sister’s then-boyfriend, Ronald Cummings, called from work to ask about her whereabouts. In the interview, he told detectives he went to the Satsuma mobile home about 9:45 p.m. to find his sister.

Ronald Cummings’ attorney said Tuesday that Cummings did not ask Croslin to check where she was and had been in touch with her during the evening.

Terry Shoemaker said Cummings simply called the Croslins just before 9 p.m. to ask if his girlfriend was there. Croslin was not asked to check on his sister in the call that lasted 20 to 30 seconds. ~end snip

and this from same article snip~In the interview at the Putnam County jail where he is being held on a grand theft charge, Croslin told detectives he went down the street and banged on Cummings’ door about an hour after talking to Cummings, but no one answered.

Bowling said it is the first time anyone has said they went to the mobile home after Cummings’ grandmother Annette Sykes left about 7:30 p.m.

“He told us he banged on the door,” Bowling said. “He said it was dark and no lights were on.”

Detectives were told no one came to the door.

“It is surprising that someone would hold that information,” Bowling said.

Lisa Croslin said she had not heard about the call in the seven months since Haleigh disappeared and found that puzzling but did not have an explanation.~ end snip

Bowling is with Law Enforcement and the specific words that he uses in his statement support the information that Tommy could not have given this information to Law Enforcement many months ago. Hope that helps clear it up.

Thanks, Elle. That makes three, independent tips that have come in which states Misty may not have been home. We're getting somewhere.

 

[curvecuti]

I wouldn't call Tommy's admission to LE a "tip". I think it was more of a say whatever ya can to get out of jail statement. IMO.

 

[texasmommy39]

Thanks, Elle. That makes three, independent tips that have come in which states Misty may not have been home. We're getting somewhere.

Debs I am sorry to ask for a diagram explaining three independent tips? If I remember correctly it was a speculation that grew legs and then was asked to be confirmed by PCSO with no response until Tommy's arrest and that did not confirm that Misty was not there. I seem to have missed the three independent tips that state Misty was not home.

 

[elle1919]

I reiterate that I believe Tommy was the source of the early news that Misty may not have been at home that night. I have heard nothing which compels me to believe it is not him, since not one other person has stepped forward to say that they know for certain Misty wasn't home and that she was with them.

This is only new news to "us"; I believe LE has known Tommy's story from the get-go.

Actually debs, I posted this article : http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...asnt_home_the_night_haleigh_cummings_vanished

in response to the above quoted bold-ed portion of your post. You were certain that Tommy was the tipster that informed LE early on in the case that Misty wasn't at home. Law Enforcement states in the article that I posted that they DID NOT know this information from the get go and Hankjr's recent confession about going over to the MH was the first time they had heard the information from him.

snip~In the interview at the Putnam County jail where he is being held on a grand theft charge, Croslin told detectives he went down the street and banged on Cummings’ door about an hour after talking to Cummings, but no one answered.
Bowling said it is the first time anyone has said they went to the mobile home after Cummings’ grandmother Annette Sykes left about 7:30 p.m. “He told us he banged on the door,” Bowling said. “He said it was dark and no lights were on.” Detectives were told no one came to the door.

“It is surprising that someone would hold that information,” Bowling said. ~ end snip

So, I do not disagree with you that there was a tip early on but it didn't come from Hankjr. And the two other people that you are counting as witnesses as to Misty not being home on that night should not be counted if they aren't going to come forward and speak to Law Enforcement and actually give a truthful statement that can be confirmed. JMO

 

[debs]

Debs I am sorry to ask for a diagram explaining three independent tips? If I remember correctly it was a speculation that grew legs and then was asked to be confirmed by PCSO with no response until Tommy's arrest and that did not confirm that Misty was not there. I seem to have missed the three independent tips that state Misty was not home.

No one has to like it, but Tommy provided information which suggests Misty was not at home.

Tim Miller offered information regarding a tip he received from a woman in a bar who stated she saw Misty at a party that night.

And now, since Elle has effectively shown I am incorrect that Tommy was the original tipster, there is a third person out there, who supplied a tip that was CONFIRMED (according to an earlier post from Shaundland answering questions why this one tip was confirmed), that shows a third person provided information that Misty was possibly not home.

That makes three.

If you want to add all Ronald's phone calls to Misty that went unanswered, and his calling Tommy to find out if Misty was maybe down at their house, that would make FOUR tips that people thought Misty might not be home.

Things are definitely picking up!

 

[elle1919]

There was a tipster that called in a tip that Misty was not at the home on February 9th, that person never came forward despite several pleading attempts that were made by LE. That tipster didn't come forward to be interviewed and provide factual information to support their tip. Neither did Hankjr come forward and say crap ya know what, I better go talk to LE because now that I think about it...remember I went over there and Misty wasn't home??? That is because in my opinion he is a liar.

The third person that I believe debs is referencing is a woman that spoke to Tim Miller in a bar and provided Tim Miller with the information that she "thought" Misty was at a party on that night. This woman DID NOT offer the information to Law Enforcement and has not offered herself to be questioned to verify the validity of her "tip" to Tim Miller at a bar. If this woman had information that Law Enforcement was begging for for all these months WHY has she not gone to them? Maybe she wants some attention who knows but at my last count we still have one person coming forward.....after he was in jail and then decided he remembered something significant. I have my doubts.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I have my doubts, too, elle. It's always convenient when a so-called "witness" steps up just when a story can save his own miserable hide.

Here's my own bare-bones theory. You will note that I am not filling in the blanks, but rather suggesting what might go in the blanks.

1. Haleigh is last seen by ggm around 7 p.m. (For now, I'm assuming this is true, although it would be nice to have a second account to verify that Haleigh was alive after Ron left for work; LE might have this if the AC man saw Haleigh.)

2. Misty has her brother and "friends" over after Ron leaves. Misty ignores Ron's calls because she doesn't want him to hear her with the friends.

3. Misty either becomes preoccupied with her friends outside of the trailer (either in the yard or nearby, say across the street) or leaves the kids alone for a while to go somewhere outside the neighborhood. (If she is nearby, say next door or across the street or in the yard, this is somewhat more understandable and forgivable than just leaving the kids. Many parents sit outside with friends, etc. after kids go to bed. But leaving even to go across the street can be dangerous with small children, who can drown in the tub, burn themselves on the hot water spigot, or set the house on fire.)

4. Something bad happens to Haleigh.

• Stops breathing, chokes, ingests something she shouldn't have, gets up and hits her head, etc.
• Is molested or injured by one of the "friends."
• Is abducted while Misty is out of the house.

5. Misty checks on Haleigh and discovers her dead or missing and commences to create her cover story (as if she just woke up and found Haleigh missing when Ron comes home.)

I don't think Misty is covering up a murder she committed or an abduction she was part of; I think she is covering up her own negligence in taking care of the kids. I think the friends know what happened or are involved in more than the cover up.

 

[debs]

I have my doubts, too, elle. It's always convenient when a so-called "witness" steps up just when a story can save his own miserable hide.

Here's my own bare-bones theory. You will note that I am not filling in the blanks, but rather suggesting what might go in the blanks.

1. Haleigh is last seen by ggm around 7 p.m. (For now, I'm assuming this is true, although it would be nice to have a second account to verify that Haleigh was alive after Ron left for work; LE might have this if the AC man saw Haleigh.)

This timeline has slid somewhat. It started with 7, then was moved to between 7:30 and 8, so most have settled on around 7:30 as a median point for common purposes. We also learned only later who it was that went with Annette Sykes: Misty identified someone named "Aunt Lisa" who others have recently stated has a nursing degree.

2. Misty has her brother and "friends" over after Ron leaves. Misty ignores Ron's calls because she doesn't want him to hear her with the friends.

We know for certain, due to Tommy admitting it, that he and his children were there. We've known that from the beginning. Ronald has been interviewed and denied the cousin was ever there. No explanation to how he could assert that for a fact, however. I believe (though going off memory here) that Misty admitted later that the cousin was definitely there. It could have been Tommy. Not sure about any friends, but that is certainly a viable theory.

3. Misty either becomes preoccupied with her friends outside of the trailer (either in the yard or nearby, say across the street) or leaves the kids alone for a while to go somewhere outside the neighborhood. (If she is nearby, say next door or across the street or in the yard, this is somewhat more understandable and forgivable than just leaving the kids. Many parents sit outside with friends, etc. after kids go to bed. But leaving even to go across the street can be dangerous with small children, who can drown in the tub, burn themselves on the hot water spigot, or set the house on fire.)

There is nothing across the street from the MH except woods, but Tommy's house is about 200 yards down the road, and that is definitely not outside the realm of possibility that she thought she wouldn't be too far away. I can see her being outside smoking or whatever in the yard, and if friends did come to the MH, I wonder if Misty got rid of them before midnight, since Ronald is usually expected around that time. We would have to have someone fess up for that one, though.

4. Something bad happens to Haleigh.

• Stops breathing, chokes, ingests something she shouldn't have, gets up and hits her head, etc.
• Is molested or injured by one of the "friends."
• Is abducted while Misty is out of the house.

The great and sad unknown

5. Misty checks on Haleigh and discovers her dead or missing and commences to create her cover story (as if she just woke up and found Haleigh missing when Ron comes home.)

I don't think Misty is covering up a murder she committed or an abduction she was part of; I think she is covering up her own negligence in taking care of the kids. I think the friends know what happened or are involved in more than the cover up.

It does not escape my notice that Misty's friends can't keep themselves out of trouble. In and out of the PCSO jumpsuits. If they knew anything about anything that would put Misty as solely responsible, even if they helped hide it after the fact, I think they'd have given it up. There are just too many deals people who have information can make (like you believe Tommy made to get out of jail with the weak information that Ronald called him and he went to the MH that night to check and thinks Misty wasn't home; PCSO already knew Ronald called Tommy; they'd had him in before Tommy said anything to talk about his phone records) that would assure them that they'd be able to tell what happened. I can't go with her junkie friends as covering up. I could go with ONE of them doing something to Haleigh, but there is no way there could be a confederacy of these dunces.

I am still unable to explain away why Ronald would offer to marry Misty 31 days after his daughter disappeared. Why he would divorce her 7 months later. Why he didn't call his grandmother back, or his mother, or someone, to go check on the kids after he couldn't get hold of Misty if there was something which warranted 20 calls, and a call to Misty's brother. Why after a barrage of calls, he would work 3 extra hours of overtime, then stop on the way home for beer, nuts, and smokes.

He asked Tommy whether Misty was there. He didn't think she was home. That would have sent chills down my back if I expected my children to be home in bed and I couldn't find their caretaker.

Overall, I like your bare bones. Um, that sounded better in my head.

 

[kiki the parrot]

The timeline sure has slid... we have yet to hear from anyone outside family placing Haleigh alive beyond approx. 3:30 (following 3:20 bus stop). Tommy was there. Neighbors of course reported "children" were playing "outside."

When story re trip made by GMS eventually emerged in final form, she said she was not alone--reportedly it's Elysa Squires who was w her. TN's SIL I believe (Uncle Donald's wife, unless they're no longer married). I too find it of great interest if she's a RN.

arrot:

 

[Malesherbes]

The timeline sure has slid... we have yet to hear from anyone outside family placing Haleigh alive beyond approx. 3:30 (following 3:20 bus stop). Tommy was there. Neighbors of course reported "children" were playing "outside."

When story re trip made by GMS eventually emerged in final form, she said she was not alone--reportedly it's Elysa Squires who was w her. I too find it of interest if she's a RN.

arrot:

Yes, and Misty brings that up, that ES is a nurse- as if thats important, I think its a clue from Misty that Haleigh was in bad shape at the time- around 7-8 and Annette was called by someone to go check on Haleigh and she brought help-

And considering on the voice test, TJ Ward says Misty never put the child to bed that night, it makes me think something happened in that time frame to her-
jmo

 

[kiki the parrot]

As I previously shared, it has occurred to me that TN's dispatching of a "family member" that eve may not have been merely to "make sure everything was alright," but precisely because she may have known everything was not alright. I long wondered at the delay in mentioning the visit to 202 that eve--which only emerged later--at first believing this was in order to stretch the timeline. But perhaps there was another reason for her waiting to offer up this fact immediately.

arrot:

 

[debs]

As I previously shared, it has occurred to me that TN's dispatching of a "family member" that eve may not have been merely to "make sure everything was alright," but precisely because she may have known everything was not alright. I long wondered at the delay in mentioning the visit to 202 that eve--which only emerged later--at first believing this was in order to stretch the timeline. But perhaps there was another reason for her waiting to offer up this fact immediately.

arrot:

We explored this oddity long ago, Kiki. It is still very odd, now with the factor that Misty confirms that "Aunt Lisa" is a nurse. I have agreed with you from the jump that the visit to the MH was not one of laundry delivery but one of a more grave type.

 

[Malesherbes]

We explored this oddity long ago, Kiki. It is still very odd, now with the factor that Misty confirms that "Aunt Lisa" is a nurse. I have agreed with you from the jump that the visit to the MH was not one of laundry delivery but one of a more grave type.

Then cue in Teresa Neves in her PCSO coat and armed with a picture of Haleigh-
jmo

 

[debs]

Then cue in Teresa Neves in her PCSO coat and armed with a picture of Haleigh-
jmo

And then add that people are now insisting that Teresa was NOT employed in any sheriff's office at the time of Haleigh's disappearance and wonder why she wore that jacket. I know the video where Ronald would give his life for his child's life back, he has a printout of the picture that Teresa must have provided, because it crumbles in his hand as he talks with the reporters. They were able to get a lot of copies of that picture out quickly. I think that's a good thing.

 

[Malesherbes]

And then add that people are now insisting that Teresa was NOT employed in any sheriff's office at the time of Haleigh's disappearance and wonder why she wore that jacket. I know the video where Ronald would give his life for his child's life back, he has a printout of the picture that Teresa must have provided, because it crumbles in his hand as he talks with the reporters. They were able to get a lot of copies of that picture out quickly. I think that's a good thing.

Then factor in Teresa raving about how Misty is just the best Ronald ever had, and its like, why would she talk this girl up who barely even knew Ron for that long, she had to have known about the distress her son was in the weekend before when Misty was off having sex with Greg Page and on a drug binge- To me its like Teresa talked Misty up to reassure her they had her back or something, I mean its just bizarre- I would not be surprised to learn she told Ron to call NG, Miss Nancy, I have seen tape of him early on, on NG, and he referred to her as Nancy- someone is coaching him on how to pacify NG-

jmo