Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

[songline]

With much respect to you, Whisperer, I disagree here.

I don't throw away things that stink! Even things that stink real bad. I wash them!

From what I understand about maggots, you will only find them on decomposing material. They would not be in the trunk if the decomposing material were removed. I guess maggots may have remained on a stain in the trunk... don't know.

Lots of sleuthers assume that after CA/GA smelled that decomp, they knew right away that Caylee's body had been in the trunk and KC had killed her, so they immediately went into evidence-hiding mode. I really don't think this is the case. First, they're gonna be shocked beyond belief that what they're smelling. I understand GA said he was worried to death he would find KC or Caylee back there, but after he didn't find a body I don't believe he automatically figured out in his head that a dead Caylee had been back there and KC did it. He's KC's dad.. and this was the first major game-changer he had been hit with. At this point, was there any real reason for him to believe KC had killed Caylee?

I believe it took them a much longer time to come to the realization that we did, and that's largely due to the fact that they're her parents. It's extremely hard to accept that your own flesh and blood killed your own flesh and blood. GA even said it on LKL the other night... he will not accept that his daughter is guilty of this crime.

I'm not sure if the pants and the knife were readily visible in the car. Are we sure of that, or just speculating?

Made bold --
There for we have the 31 days.

 

[songline]

When George first brought the car home, I do not think he was even putting 2 and 2 together about that the smell was Caylee. He probably was thinking OMG, what has Casey done? But I can't imagine him ever truly entertaining the thought for too long that the smell was his dead granddaughter that he did not even know was missing at the time. There was nothing to cover up, yet.

Sure, I think he tried to clean the car. Just because he and Cindy do appear to be neat freaks. Do not think they were trying to cover Casey's you-know-what at this time.

Cindy had yet to make the 911 call where she is still very much mad as h3ll at Casey.

Although I believe that Cindy has been in cover-Casey's-booty-mode now for months, and has given George strict instructions on the family's belief/response/actions at this point, I think both of their initial actions and responses were far from trying to cover up for Casey. Everything that we have seen from Cindy up to July 15 is about Caylee. Her missing Caylee. While I do not think that neither of them acted with any forethought of their actions at the time of bringing the care home, I do not think that they thought OMG, what has Casey down now? Gotta protect her even though Caylee is missing.

Made bold.
IMO = GA put it together faster then lightening.
He is the one that knew how to play LE like a fiddle.
No way could Cindy, Casey or Lee come up with such an elaborate scheme that would divert everyone so that a body was not even searched for for the first 31 days and then divert again so that they waste more and more time.
Oh by the way I protected the parents till the LKL show.
I too wanted to believe....I too could not imagine they would do what they are doing. My heart ached for them...I do see through them now. Their arrogance with no fear is due to the massive clean up: LE daddy knows that if you can not tie the deed to Casey then the case may be going on and on and on.

I love your innocence though. I really do.I wish I still had mine :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

While George may not have automatically thought about the possibility of KC having killed Caylee and that the smell in the trunk was from Caylee's body, it didn't take him very long to consider this as a possible scenario. I believe that in one of his earlier interviews with LE or FBI he brings this up to the authorities. And one of CA's initial responses when KC said she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days -- "What have you done?"

I truly believe that George immediately considered the possibility that KC killed Caylee, even if it was subconscious. He states he was afraid the smell was from one of his two girls -- but at the same time he KNEW KC was OK, because she had been in recent contact with CA.

IAT George took no chances - he had a clean up plan just in case (assuming he did not know) But he knew.

 

[songline]

I'm kind of in the middle. I also think they were furious at KC, before and during the first 911 call. Then, I think that dawn broke that something seriously bad had happened, and KC was involved. When something bad happened, around, the family, KC was USUALLY the problem. I even think they might have twigged that Caylee was dead, as they added ideas to the horrible smell.

But, I think there was a short period of denial, before they twigged that KC was the actual killer.

That period of denial is long over. But, I'm not sure when it ended.

I agree with almost all of this accept one piece.
IMHO It was not always Casey is the problem, I believe GA is the center/seed of all the bad chit.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I have a bagless vaccum and I dump mine sometimes weekly or every two weeks if they had a bag I am sure they filled it up within 5 months

Does anybody remember when LE took possession of the car?

I know LE uses techniques to search vaccum cleaner's, apart from just the filter area. I have heard they go in and check certain connection areas w/in the vaccum, where debris often collects, and as such changing the filter would have no effect. I tried to find more info on this last night but was not successful. Maybe some of the WS'ers could help out in this area ?

 

[Spacegirl]

Nevermind! Someone already posted exactly what I just said. This is why you read the whole thread before ya post.. Sorry!

 

[TakeNote]

When George first brought the car home, I do not think he was even putting 2 and 2 together about that the smell was Caylee. He probably was thinking OMG, what has Casey done? But I can't imagine him ever truly entertaining the thought for too long that the smell was his dead granddaughter that he did not even know was missing at the time. There was nothing to cover up, yet.

Sure, I think he tried to clean the car. Just because he and Cindy do appear to be neat freaks. Do not think they were trying to cover Casey's you-know-what at this time.

Cindy had yet to make the 911 call where she is still very much mad as h3ll at Casey.

Although I believe that Cindy has been in cover-Casey's-booty-mode now for months, and has given George strict instructions on the family's belief/response/actions at this point, I think both of their initial actions and responses were far from trying to cover up for Casey. Everything that we have seen from Cindy up to July 15 is about Caylee. Her missing Caylee. While I do not think that neither of them acted with any forethought of their actions at the time of bringing the care home, I do not think that they thought OMG, what has Casey down now? Gotta protect her even though Caylee is missing.

oh i think he was putin 2 to 2 together at the tow yard....when he said...*please dont let this be my Caylee*....on his way back to the trunk...and had the tow yard guy open the trunk with him....and lift up the bag of trash to make sure she was not in there......he is an ex-cop he knew the smell all right.....and he knew his daughter took off with the baby pizzzzed....and was gone for 31 days....he knew...

 

[MAMABEAR]

Yup---he knew. He used that tow yard as a witness. I think Caylee was in the tire well and he knew it. Maybe he had already looked and then called the guy back over there. If the guy didn't see the body then---it wasn't there---not in plain sight anyway.

 

[natsound]

oh i think he was putin 2 to 2 together at the tow yard....when he said...*please dont let this be my Caylee*....on his way back to the trunk...and had the tow yard guy open the trunk with him....and lift up the bag of trash to make sure she was not in there......he is an ex-cop he knew the smell all right.....and he knew his daughter took off with the baby pizzzzed....and was gone for 31 days....he knew...

I disagree he knew it was Caylee at that point. The shock is gonna hit him like a ton of bricks. When he saw there was no actual body in the trunk, relief probably washed over him like a tidal wave, triggering denial.

 

[natsound]

Maybe he had already looked and then called the guy back over there. If the guy didn't see the body then---it wasn't there---not in plain sight anyway.

snipped

I think we're "reaching" here.

 

[songline]

I think it was laziness, but even more, she KNEW that area. She knew what to expect if she went in there. I'd be scared half to death to go in a swampy, wooded area in Florida! Yikes they have bugs so big they ride motorcycles and not to mention the snakes. She figured so many people dumped garbage back there that a little more wouldn't be noticed. I think she ran in there, flung the bag as far as she could and ran out.

I am not 100% that she can figure out much
I am also not 100% that "Daddy to the rescue" did not figure that part out
and drove past there in the night (unseen) to make a drop.
I am puzzled that the detective who worked for the "A"s kept saying
that he had gone there last summer and I believe he said took videos of the area
and nothing was there
That truly makes me stop and say...hhhmmmmm
HE DID WHAT > WHY?

 

[songline]

oh i think he was putin 2 to 2 together at the tow yard....when he said...*please dont let this be my Caylee*....on his way back to the trunk...and had the tow yard guy open the trunk with him....and lift up the bag of trash to make sure she was not in there......he is an ex-cop he knew the smell all right.....and he knew his daughter took off with the baby pizzzzed....and was gone for 31 days....he knew...

:clap::clap:Good post...I just do not believe the 31 days.
I believe they knew long before 31 days.
But they need to do 2 things before calling 911.
1- delay so body is less identifiable.
2- clean up and set up the BS they are spreading.

 

[april_showers]

George also slipped up when he said he actually kissed and hugged them on the way out the door at 12:50. This was in Greta Van Susteran's Exclusive of August 6, 2008. GEORGE ANTHONY: My daughter said that she was going to work, dropping her daughter off at the nanny's house, and that was it. I give them both hugs, kisses and saw them go out the door like a typical thing that they've -- that she's done.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN Exclusive: Grandparents of Missing Toddler 'On the Record' Aug 6 2008 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html

this interview has ALWAYS bothered me! George - the master of minute details - is so noticeably vague when it comes to his description of their goodbyes. IMO, if he had interacted with an awake/ alive Caylee, we would have repeatedly heard specific details of that convo, rather than an ambiguous "typical hugs and kisses" statement. If this was truly his final convo with his granddaughter, I can't help but believe he would have clung to those words for all eternity. We would have heard some sort of tearful "and then she said 'bye-bye Jo-Jo' and gave me a kiss" statement every time Geroge had the chance to open his mouth. This picture would have been drilled into our heads over and over and over... especially during the "help! the evil kidnappers took our daughter" stage of events.

IMO, Casey inherited that lying gene from Cindy. George sucks at lying - every time he tries to do it he sounds dodgy and vague (or ridiculously forced / coached by his wife). Who gives details about sunglasses but not about human interaction?

I am not sure how I feel about Casey possibly walking by with a dead Caylee. Again, with where ol' Georgie was sitting on the couch, they would have had to practically step over him. So i'm back and forth with that whole theory. But, I do believe with all my heart that there is no way he interacted with any sort of awake little girl that day...

 

[Chiquita71]

this interview has ALWAYS bothered me! George - the master of minute details - is so noticeably vague when it comes to his description of their goodbyes. IMO, if he had interacted with an awake/ alive Caylee, we would have repeatedly heard specific details of that convo, rather than an ambiguous "typical hugs and kisses" statement. If this was truly his final convo with his granddaughter, I can't help but believe he would have clung to those words for all eternity. We would have heard some sort of tearful "and then she said 'bye-bye Jo-Jo' and gave me a kiss" statement every time Geroge had the chance to open his mouth. This picture would have been drilled into our heads over and over and over... especially during the "help! the evil kidnappers took our daughter" stage of events.

IMO, Casey inherited that lying gene from Cindy. George sucks at lying - every time he tries to do it he sounds dodgy and vague (or ridiculously forced / coached by his wife). Who gives details about sunglasses but not about human interaction?

I am not sure how I feel about Casey possibly walking by with a dead Caylee. Again, with where ol' Georgie was sitting on the couch, they would have had to practically step over him. So i'm back and forth with that whole theory. But, I do believe with all my heart that there is no way he interacted with any sort of awake little girl that day...

Hello WS

(Snip Respect)

I snipped this because this all fits into a theory I have right now re: George's story on GVS(as is referenced by what I snipped) about seeing Casey/Caylee June16th and everything was "normal."


George Anthony
Statement to LE
July24, 2008

GA: But a lot of times they've gotten into it is because of Casey not being where she's supposed to have been. The lying about working, me wanting to be Mr. Detective again. I know you guys brought up about Sports Authority(inaudible).
LE: Yeah
GA: I went out to Sports Authority and I, i think I told you guys, I actually went inside and confronted the manager.
LE: That's not necessarily being a detective that's being a dad.
LE: Uh-Huh
LE: Well, you know(inaudible).
GA: And, and I(inaudible)and this, well and I even asked this Ryan, god, what's Ryan's last name/ Hasting? Yeah, I asked Ryan, I said, Ryan, did you work with Casey? "No, she doesn't work here." I said, well then how in the hell did she make...oh, did we tell you about a report supposedly that she was at gun point...

Richard Grund
Statement to LE
September5th, 2008

RG: ...and then he just kind of blurted out about the whole job thing. He said you know we, I knew she didn't have any of these jobs. Said she, when she told us she worked at the Sports Authority I went there one day and they told me she'd never been there, and I've discovered most of the jobs she's told us she had, she never had. Which of course I made a note of, that means you knew, she wasn't workin' so, if she has a nanny, who's paying for her?


This tells me quite clear that George was lying about the fact that he thought Casey was on her way to work(with Caylee being dropped off?)and Casey saying she would work late so she would see him the next day. By his statement to LE and then his statement to RG: he tells us he knew she was lying about "most of the jobs she's told us she had" he tells us "she never had them." So, I have to conclude he did not think she was going to work on the 16th.

I have always found Cindy's statement about "hearing them breathe through the door" the morning of June16th odd.

That Cindy and George tried to distance themselves from "Father's Day" June15th as the last day they saw Caylee and as a part of proving the 15th was not the last day...they make the big deal about "between 12 and 1 while George was watching TV he saw them "hugs and kisses normal" I think is pointing to what George and Cindy think happend to Caylee more than what actually happened.

I think George and Cindy think Caylee drown in the pool late June15th or early(before each got home from work that day)June16th. I think this is what Casey wanted them to think...

Whether this happened or not this is what Cindy/George think: after all the tension of the month of June(Cindy's bday, vacation, etc.) Cindy has Caylee on the 15th when she visits her father at his nursing home. Casey goes to Tony's apartment but is home in time to see Cindy and Caylee swimming but does not join in because "it was too cold." Whether(am I spelling that right?) or not there was a "big fight" between Cindy and Casey on June15th I think it is safe to say there is truth to the love/hate relationship between mother and daughter that Caylee was the center of(through no fault of her sweet own)there is that mistrust between mother and daughter. So when Cindy started putting things together: she waited till after three 911 calls to LE because LE states in George's statement on July24, 2008 that Cindy left him a voice mail while he was away with Casey being led on the goose chase at Universal that was letting him know about the gate to the pool being left open and the ladder having been left up on the pool. George confirms this:

GA: ...my wife and I were brainstorming uh, all(inaudible) to our insight and I said, there's got to be more to this mess. She said, "George, do you remember that day I found the ladder down and also the gate?" I says, yeah.

The subject of the gate/ladder/pool is brought up during a long part of this statement where I believe LE is focused on the idea of the pool and the exact date they noticed the gate is a big part of the questioning but this questioning follows more of what day was "gas can day" and "day George saw Casey and they had a car chase." As George and LE speak about June 24, and up until the 27th they decide(as best they can) that this was all around the time of the "gas cans" and "the break in of the shed" and "the gate/ladder/pool.(See WS amazing Timeline Calandar: I do believe they have these dates worked out).

So, Cindy sees that if Caylee is found and it is fact that she did drown then it is Cindy's pool...and then Cindy realizes that the last time she really DID see Caylee was the night of June 15th and they had been swimming...and if George and Cindy woke up June16th and went to work-maybe saw Caylee alive in the morning...but they figure Casey stayed home(they know she had no job)and Caylee drown then(by some accident or negligence of Casey's they figure Casey was all involved on the computer too just as some WSers have theorized and it was an accident...

Then Cindy says...but, Casey would have had to put the ladder up/open the gate because maybe they were going to swim...then got distracted? Even Cindy may sense the "spite" behind this action...Casey would know not to leave it up...so why would she?...to pin Caylee's death on Cindy. Cindy started thinking.

Now that I type this out I think my theory has big issues but I feel there is something I may be expressing here so I am going to continue...

It may not be totally logical but I do not think Cindy and Casey are logical. I do think there was a war between them and it was inflamed by the presence of Caylee. I think Cindy realized she had better support the idea of a "nanny" to throw heat off of herself. Then when she got caught lying the same lie Casey was telling "Zanny at SGA" she was stopped by the depo so now she just goes with "I haven't had a chance to speak to my daughter about this", "someone else did this: take your pick as of late" and a few others I think I am forgetting right now but any story is better than what she thinks happened:

Caylee drown in her pool, at her house, a day after she was swimming with Caylee.

And, above I said it didn't matter if they had the "big fight" on the 15th...but if that is true and you add that in: Cindy sees reason for why Caylee died at her house in her pool and is/was afraid everyone else would also.

Okay. This theory has been running around in my head for a while and I didn't know if I was going to post but tonight on NG(Hello Friend!)JG was being interviewed and he said that LP told him that Cindy, Casey and George were discussing with JB how they were saying Jesse let Caylee drown! Now, I do not understand where they would be coming up with that...and I have not gotten to JG interview yet...

but I felt that Cindy being a part of a plot to place blame on another and to say that he "drown" Caylee fit too well into my sketchy theory...

I also would like to add a quote from a book that I think(for me)describes the "mother energy" that is carried in a family like the Anthony's. I know this mother: I have yet to meet a mother that is not this mother...sad for me...and because of this mother I have fear of being a mother myself...she is the...

"Patriarchal Woman/Mother: the manipulator, what matters most are the structures that they have in their lives for dealing with children-not a mother's feelings and emotions toward children." Barbara Hand Clow-Eye of the Centaur.

Thanks WS!

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

 

[ibyoungr]

Hello WS

I can see Cindy going along with a lie if she thought that Casey would throw her under the bus.

Keep in mind.. there were thunderstorms that afternoon. Using your theory, Cindy would have had to forget that there was a storm that afternoon.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I can see Cindy going along with a lie if she thought that Casey would throw her under the bus.

Keep in mind.. there were thunderstorms that afternoon. Using your theory, Cindy would have had to forget that there was a storm that afternoon.

(Snip Respect ibyoungr)


Please tell me more. I admit my ignorance. I am interested in what you mean?:waitasec:

Thanks!:blowkiss:

 

[songline]

I disagree he knew it was Caylee at that point. The shock is gonna hit him like a ton of bricks. When he saw there was no actual body in the trunk, relief probably washed over him like a tidal wave, triggering denial.

hmmm. I would not put it past him to have gone into the lot in the night and take out a package from the trunk. before getting the car the following day. HE is that calculated.
Open Parking lot....Dark outside.
I also would not put it past him to drop off the package.
before he got home.
I am not saying he did that.
I am saying - I believe it is very possible.

 

[Ripley007]

With much respect to you, Whisperer, I disagree here.

I don't throw away things that stink! Even things that stink real bad. I wash them!

From what I understand about maggots, you will only find them on decomposing material. They would not be in the trunk if the decomposing material were removed. I guess maggots may have remained on a stain in the trunk... don't know.

Lots of sleuthers assume that after CA/GA smelled that decomp, they knew right away that Caylee's body had been in the trunk and KC had killed her, so they immediately went into evidence-hiding mode. I really don't think this is the case. First, they're gonna be shocked beyond belief that what they're smelling. I understand GA said he was worried to death he would find KC or Caylee back there, but after he didn't find a body I don't believe he automatically figured out in his head that a dead Caylee had been back there and KC did it. He's KC's dad.. and this was the first major game-changer he had been hit with. At this point, was there any real reason for him to believe KC had killed Caylee?

I believe it took them a much longer time to come to the realization that we did, and that's largely due to the fact that they're her parents. It's extremely hard to accept that your own flesh and blood killed your own flesh and blood. GA even said it on LKL the other night... he will not accept that his daughter is guilty of this crime.

I'm not sure if the pants and the knife were readily visible in the car. Are we sure of that, or just speculating?

Bold by Me.
My point, re: the smelly car has been consistant...It is IRRELEVANT Whose stink was causeing the Decomp Stink. Obviously, to both GA and CA, (former cop and current Nurse) A DEAD BODY had been inside of KC's car.

Let's pretend for a moment, that Caylee had never been missing or murdered. KC was a great gal who just happened to run out gas in front of Amscott and then for whatever reason, felt too ashamed or embarrassed to tell her folks the truth, then the car gets towed and later recovered by the A's. Without the current real-life situation of their own GD "missing" for the previous month, how would the A's have responded to picking up KC's car with it REEKING of human Decomp? Their own personal theory of "gee, someone else killed someone else and then hid the body in KC's car for a few days" might make some sense. If this was the case...would they ever, in a million years, STILL have drove that car home from the lot rather than call 911 on the spot??? JMHO.

 

[Spacegirl]

GA: ...my wife and I were brainstorming uh, all(inaudible) to our insight and I said, there's got to be more to this mess. She said, "George, do you remember that day I found the ladder down and also the gate?" I says, yeah.

Wouldn't it be funny if CA & GA just made up the whole "one day we came home and the ladder was down" story just to give Casey a possible accidental death scenario if/when a body was found?

I could see this convo happening between the A's-
C: Oh my god, what are we gonna do? Do you think she really would have harmed her on purpose? Wait.... do you remember that time the pool ladder was left down? And also the gate?
G: Umm.... I think maybe I do remember something like that. I'll tell LE tomorrow.

I'm not saying that Casey didn't drown little Caylee in the backyard pool, but if she did, I think she would have put the ladder back up. Don't mean to be graphic, but unless there was vomit in the pool, putting the ladder back up would be the only thing she would have to do to clean up. Surely she would have returned to the pool deck after putting the body in the trunk and surely she would have noticed it then. No, I think if she left it there, she left it there on purpose, and for the same reason the Anthony's would have made it up - just in case she ended up needing an accidental death story.

Personally, I think she did it in the comfort zone of her own bedroom. I have a privacy fence, and I wouldn't even get naked in my yard. Much less commit a heinous crime! Not that I would ever hurt anyone - you know what I mean though. It would take some serious guts. If she wanted to drown Caylee, all she would have to do is run her a bath and not have to risk (or even worry about) being seen or heard by anyone.

 

[Ripley007]

GA: ...my wife and I were brainstorming uh, all(inaudible) to our insight and I said, there's got to be more to this mess. She said, "George, do you remember that day I found the ladder down and also the gate?" I says, yeah.

Wouldn't it be funny if CA & GA just made up the whole "one day we came home and the ladder was down" story just to give Casey a possible accidental death scenario if/when a body was found?

I could see this convo happening between the A's-
C: Oh my god, what are we gonna do? Do you think she really would have harmed her on purpose? Wait.... do you remember that time the pool ladder was left down? And also the gate?
G: Umm.... I think maybe I do remember something like that. I'll tell LE tomorrow.

I'm not saying that Casey didn't drown little Caylee in the backyard pool, but if she did, I think she would have put the ladder back up. Don't mean to be graphic, but unless there was vomit in the pool, putting the ladder back up would be the only thing she would have to do to clean up. Surely she would have returned to the pool deck after putting the body in the trunk and surely she would have noticed it then. No, I think if she left it there, she left it there on purpose, and for the same reason the Anthony's would have made it up - just in case she ended up needing an accidental death story.

Personally, I think she did it in the comfort zone of her own bedroom. I have a privacy fence, and I wouldn't even get naked in my yard. Much less commit a heinous crime! Not that I would ever hurt anyone - you know what I mean though. It would take some serious guts. If she wanted to drown Caylee, all she would have to do is run her a bath and not have to risk (or even worry about) being seen or heard by anyone.

You are hereby accussed of READING MY MIND!
ITA! Cindy convincing GA to go along with this "noticed the pool ladder intact" scenerio as a pre-emptive stike to protect KC. Bravo. :clap::blowkiss: