Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[eimajjjj]

Respectfully snipped>



BIB 1. I would suggest that all murder trials are unique in some way. Why do you think barristers libraries in chambers are so massive ... because decisions in cases are constantly being upheld, reversed, etc etc etc

I mean the cases are exceptions against the norm of bail being suspended as presumption of innocence is no longer present.

BIB 2: What do you mean by this? If Masipa grants an appeal it will take approx. 18 months to reach the Court of Appeal. The appeal takes the form of argument between counsel and the convicted person doesn't usually attend. This argument normally only takes 1 or 2 days. So bail would be extended for approx. 18 months.

I mean that an appeal has to be granted but there is the wait time until that appeal is even granted.

And OP, IMO, will NOT be out on bail for 18 months. It goes against logic, the law and common sense. The cases cited were unique in that there were blatant reasons that an appeal may be successful: witness admitting to lie for money, accused tipping off the police of his crime and such like. OP doesn't have anywhere near enough reasons for an appeal to be likely which is the main reason bail pending appeal would be granted.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

View attachment 58125

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-5-3804385

Came across this pic while searching other stuff and it struck me as important for some reason, ordinarily this photo would be considered endearing, his uncle clearly loves his nephew. OP almost seems childlike as his tie is being straightened by his 'caregiver', I wonder what he is saying? Imo, he still has that 'little boy' appearance in certain instances, maybe for family only? :thinking: While other times he looks smug, intense and accusatory especially towards people outside the family like Reeva's family and friends, Nel (lol).

The first time I saw that photo I went wth?! The guy is 27 YEARS OLD! This may perfectly explain OP’s entitled, narcissistic life, the very “issues” that led him to that courtroom, on trial for murder. He’s been treated like the “Golden Child” since he was 17 months old, coddled and protected from the consequences of his own misdeeds, crimes and f##kups. Children do not grow up in a vacuum. The Pistorius family created Oscar - and now everyone else is paying the price ... some more than others.

 

[K.T]

You mean like "Angry Angus"?

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/04/16/pistorius-family-had-issues-involving-wooden-doors---in-1844

Teehee, let's diagnose 'Angry Angus', Pistorius senior, with garden variety narcissism and greed sentenced to an afterlife squashed and mocked under a formidable wooden door carved with the epitaph, Douchbags Deceiveth Ever...

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Following on from that last article I just posted, the psychologist author again talks again about the probability that a Pistorius had a narcissistic disorder or narcissistic personality, which played a role in the escalation towards homicide on the Valentines day shooting.

I've always wondered if Pistorius - like others such as O.J Simpson, Spector, etc. - may have an Acquired Narcissistic disorder (or 'hubris' syndrome) whereby inherent narcissistic traits are exacerbated by delusions of grandeur, entitlement, solipsism and pathological immaturity. This syndrome is still theoretical, and is even less researched than narcissism disorder, but the differences in how a 'hubris' syndrome manifests may make masking or revealing it's personality disorder signifiers complicated for current psych tests.

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/02/12/brain.awp008.full
http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/acquired-situational-narcissism.html

Fascinating! (I love stuff like this.) Thank you so much for posting this, K.T!

 

[K.T]

<snipped>

I hope as a minimum (keyword minimum), the author's assessment at this link is correct, and I quote:

"Mandy X
PS. My prediction for the sentencing: Guilty of murder &#8211; 15 years. Guilty of associated firearms charges &#8211; 5 years in total. Twenty year jail sentence. Time will tell&#8230;"

Just finished skimming the defence HOD, I think it's a valiant effort to make the improbable plausible. Roux does seem like he is shuffling facts and trying to discredit witness's like Stipps and fudge times to create reasonable doubt etc.

Possibly the worst miscalculation was the brief statement that Pistorius' circumstances could be seen as the same light as an abused woman syndrome. Such a miscalculation about the direction of the prosecution evidence and the mindset of court & public sentiment, quite stunning.

I think it's a slamdunk case for murder. Can't go into depth on my mobile but I'm 50/50 whether Masipa and advisors will go for eventualis or directus.

It's highly solid case for eventualis but convicting on directus depends on the weight they apply to the inconsistent and improbable Pistorius testimony and the ear witness testimony.

Hard to discuss sentencing because the mitigation and experts from State and defense will be a mini-trial in and of itself. From looking at the SA Griekwastad trial, the sentencing could also be a drawn out process and perhaps controversial decision.

 

[vansleuths]

Just finished skimming the defence HOD, I think it's a valiant effort to make the improbable plausible. Roux does seem like he is shuffling facts and trying to discredit witness's like Stipps and fudge times to create reasonable doubt etc.

Possibly the worst miscalculation was the brief statement that Pistorius' circumstances could be seen as the same light as an abused woman syndrome. Such a miscalculation about the direction of the prosecution evidence and the mindset of court & public sentiment, quite stunning.

I think it's a slamdunk case for murder. Can't go into depth on my mobile but I'm 50/50 whether Masipa and advisors will go for eventualis or directus.

It's highly solid case for eventualis but convicting on directus depends on the weight they apply to the inconsistent and improbable Pistorius testimony and the ear witness testimony.

Hard to discuss sentencing because the mitigation and experts from State and defense will be a mini-trial in and of itself. From looking at the SA Griekwastad trial, the sentencing could also be a drawn out process and perhaps controversial decision.

BIB

Masipa will have discretion when it comes to the negligent gun charges, but if she finds him guilty of murder, there is no discretion and minimum jail times are mandatory, 15 years for murder, 25 years for premeditated.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Following on from that last article I just posted, the psychologist author again talks again about the probability that Pistorius had a narcissistic disorder or narcissistic personality, which played a role in the escalation towards homicide on the Valentines day shooting.

I've always wondered if Pistorius - like others such as O.J Simpson, Spector, etc. - may have an Acquired Narcissistic disorder (or 'hubris' syndrome) whereby inherent narcissistic traits are exacerbated by delusions of grandeur, entitlement, solipsism and pathological immaturity. This syndrome is still theoretical, and is even less researched than narcissism disorder, but the differences in how a 'hubris' syndrome manifests may make masking or revealing it's personality disorder signifiers complicated for current psych tests.

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/02/12/brain.awp008.full
http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/acquired-situational-narcissism.html

Oh yes, that's interesting! All of OP's behavior fits with Acquired Narcissistic disorder (or 'hubris' syndrome).

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/132/5/1396.full

Charisma, charm, the ability to inspire, persuasiveness, breadth of vision, willingness to take risks, grandiose aspirations and bold self-confidence&#8212;these qualities are often associated with successful leadership. Yet there is another side to this profile, for these very same qualities can be marked by impetuosity, a refusal to listen to or take advice and a particular form of incompetence when impulsivity, recklessness and frequent inattention to detail predominate.

Unlike most personality disorders, which appear by early adulthood, we view hubris syndrome as developing only after power has been held for a period of time, and therefore manifesting at any age. In this regard, it follows a tradition which acknowledges the existence of pathological personality change, such as the four types in ICD-10: enduring personality change after trauma, psychiatric illness, chronic pain or unspecified type (ICD-10, 1994)&#8212;although ICD-10 implies that these four diagnoses are unlikely to improve.

In defining the clinical features of any disorder, more is required than simply listing the symptoms. In the case of hubris syndrome, a context of substantial power is necessary, as well as a certain period of time in power&#8212;although the length has not been specified, varying in the cases described from 1 to 9 years. The condition may have predisposing personality characteristics but it is acquired, that is its appearance post-dates the acquisition of power. 10 years in case of OP

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Exactly. Isn't the whole point of living in a secure gated community with armed guards at the entrance and patrolling the grounds to protect you from intruders and/or someone attacking you and you can get help immediately when you're in you're in your home with alarms and panic buttons. If he wasn't prepared to ring security for help or use the panic buttons, he may just as well lived in a cheaper place with no security.

IF there would be a home invasion/burglary then OP certainly would call the estate security, IMO. But if only he by himself is a threat to whomever then he doesn't need extra service.

 

[katydid23]

Tik Tok Tik Tok Tik Tok :jail:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is what I believed happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cciQg3ptZcg&list=UUFcNCLzRKas9X3kFoRhXlEg

Thank you! Great! Exactly the right pictures especially of beautiful Reeva (and puking OP) and music according to my taste.

 

[44ALLAN]

Exactly, Val.

R1 000 000 bail [$112,000] is pocket change to people like the Pistorius family.

Not only that -

Uncle Theo ... also has coastal properties in Mozambique, interests in an armoured vehicle dealer and a charter flight company.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/301633/Oscar-Pistorius-runs-up-200k-legal-bill

Sounds like an instant escape plan to me.

I'm confident enough I'd stake my life on the fact that the Pistorius clan has already extensively discussed detailed, alternate "plans", should the very worst befall their dear Oscar.

There's NO way they would allow him to rot in a SA prison.

They've got the money, they've got the national and international connections.

Oscar Pistorius would simply "disappear".

Forgive my ignorance but if the family posted bail for OP and he 'did a runner'.... so to speak.
Would the poster of the bail not then be held accountable for OP's actions.
Like a guarantor would be with a mortgage, or the like?
Sorry if this is a silly question I just can't see how he would be allowed to just 'disappear' if convicted and then let out on bail without someone being held to account!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

were trophies being strewn all over the place confirmed as a fact? If it was, i missed it.

Bib assuming i missed this, this would be a bit of a challenge to prove.

If we accept the earliest reports that were released, the trophies were thrown all over the place. If that was the case, nel would have introduced this into evidence.

Since nel didn't introduce this, it would seem to imply that the original reports were incorrect. This would mean that any alleged clean-up of the trophies by the pistorius family would be speculation with no evidence to back it up. It would be no different than saying that pistorius broke all the dishes during the argument but the family cleaned it up.

Moo

I. Saw. The. Picture.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Thank you! Great! Exactly the right pictures especially of beautiful Reeva (and puking OP) and music according to my taste.

:floorlaugh: they signed up just to post that too, lol.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I. Saw. The. Picture.

wish we could see it. I might dig around some more. hehe

 

[mister happy]

5 more days till V Day!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My earlier response to the same reaction from another poster was that obviously there was no proof since none of it made it, to our knowledge, to court as evidence, and yes I speculated as to why there would not have been any proof. There was certainly a large contingent of support on/in the crime scene for OP literally minutes after he shot RS dead. Since we have no way of knowing how much OP or his support team may have tampered with the scene both before and during the police investigation all we can do is try to piece together what we've heard and apply whatever facts there are to support the stories. This is besides the fact that Nel had no interest in anything that didn't directly tie in to OP killing RS with intent, ergo why none of the stuff that happened after OP shot and killed her was explored in any depth either, imo.

I only can imagine: Roux and Nel have reached an agreement, maybe put on instructions from representatives of government, to not evaluate the scattered trophies. Reason: damage to the whole South Africa sports scene. We also don't know for real whether drugs were in the play ... - There were thrown pocals; I saw a picture.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From trawling the net it would appear to me that there was only one source for the story, as all papers appear to report exactly the same details (often same words) with various bits included or excluded (e.g. it was a syndicated piece). To pick up on your point about what time van Rensburg arrives, I note that the articles all refer to the police themselves finding the trophies strewn, so they can't have been cleared up before they arrived. And by then there are also a number of others on site: e.g. Stander, Carice, Stipp, the paramedics. I don't believe it happened, at least not that night.

bbm

Can't have happened before this night. What newspaper would have been invited in OP's home to take pictures of that mess?

 

[Mr Fossil]

bbm

Can't have happened before this night. What newspaper would have been invited in OP's home to take pictures of that mess?

What newspaper would have been invited in OP's house before the police photos were taken? Or are you suggesting it's a police photo that has been withheld?

 

[Giles]

Article in psychology & counselling blog, on Pistorius guilt and the reasoning and analysis behind his past and present behaviour.

It's valid and similar to what has been discussed here, agree with most points and find the writing a good background overview.

Under the 'Oscar's Recklass and Irresponsible Nature' it lists a 2006 incident in an Amerstardam Airport where he was detained over a false declaration in his plane ticket and they also found explosive material on his legs...presumably gunpowder. After reading a truckload of articles, I'm surprised I haven't heard if this incident before? Anyone else knew about this airport detainment, or have we discussed this in previous posts... It does sound like yet another Pistorius unthinking, brainless 'mistakes'.

http://thoughtsonlifeandlove.com/psychologists-opinion-oscar-pistorius-trial/

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

I still wonder what Oscar's diagnosis would have been if he had been referred for Psychiatric assessment as an inpatient. I really think he got off easily only having to go to Weskoppies as an outpatient.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Wouldn't it be nice to be a fly on the wall and know what she is thinking at this time

I'm afraid to hear the wrong (??) verdict already now ... 11. September comes early enough.