Unflushed in the basement bathroom? Who went to the bathroom in the basement? I don't think the R's spent a lot of time down in the basement since it wasn't finished so I doubt John, Patsy, JBR, or Burke used it prior to 12/25. Did someone go to the bathroom late 12/25 or 12/26? Why wouldn't they just go upstairs? And why didn't they flush? Did they not want anyone to hear it? Weird!!
PR has to many memory lapses for me, it goes beyond lying. Its almost as if she doesnt know a lot about what she or anyone does. Like the rubber bands from the news papers (quoting from memory, here) "I think thats where I would put the rubber bands from the paper." No need for a lie there or to be vague, so why does she only thinks she does it? Y'all know more about this then I do, but her memory problems go far beyond even the crime, its sad really. Unless she is a habitual liar and then well, lying is what she does.
Oh PR, were you brilliant or did you really just need some help?
I have a question for anyone here that knows WAAAAY more about this case than I do at this point.
Could JBR have been deceased when she was carried in from the car to her bed? PR kept saying she was "zonked" and never woke up. I am reading LA's deposition transcript and something she said made me think she thought the murder occurred somewhere else. The staging occured at the house.
I have a question for anyone here that knows WAAAAY more about this case than I do at this point.
Could JBR have been deceased when she was carried in from the car to her bed? PR kept saying she was "zonked" and never woke up. I am reading LA's deposition transcript and something she said made me think she thought the murder occurred somewhere else. The staging occured at the house.
Not likely. Remember forensics. The pineapple. She'd have had to eaten that while still at the party. A few hours before they left. The pineapple in her stomach was tested and found to be IDENTICAL to the pineapple in the bowl right there on the Rs table. Also, LIVOR MORTIS begins more quickly than RIGOR mortis. If she was dead and her body moved around (carried inside, placed on the bed, carried down stairs, etc) during the time she left the White's and was KNOWN to be alive, and placed in the WC, there would be MORE THAN ONE livor pattern. There was ONLY ONE. She died within 20 minutes of being placed on her back in the WC.
These different theories are certainly valid as far as the thought behind them, but science really isn't variable. The forensic findings can't be made to fit a theory, so the theories have to fit the forensics.
BR said she walked in. I think he is telling the truth. Actually, I can't think of a comment BR made that was shown to be a lie- that's the thing. He wasn't questioned about his specific role because he wasn't ALLOWED to be. Under Colorado law, LE couldn't even ACCUSE him of taking part in this crime.
If she was dead and her body moved around (carried inside, placed on the bed, carried down stairs, etc) during the time she left the White's and was KNOWN to be alive, and placed in the WC, there would be MORE THAN ONE livor pattern. There was ONLY ONE. She died within 20 minutes of being placed on her back in the WC.
my bold
There's a problem with this theory DD. She wasn't found (by the coroner) in the WC, but under the Christmas tree, and she had been moved twice since discovery. There is no reason she also could not have been moved BEFORE either, provided it was AFTER rigor mortis was fully developed, if she was placed again in the same position on her back. Theoretically, she could have been killed anywhere (inside or outside the house) and her body moved to the WC after rigor had set in.
It isn't rigor that is the problem. It is LIVOR mortis. If she had been moved more than once in the early stages, there would be multiple livor patterns There was only ONE. That's not me saying it. That's the coroner. Now let me say that she could have been moved AFTER livor became "fixed" but that would have been after people were already at the house.
Livor begins MUCH sooner than rigor. And lasts till decomp and exsanguination. (the blood leaves the body because the vessels deteriorate).
Theoretically, JR could have moved her during his "disappearance" that morning (where he really never left the house). By then, livor might have been "fixed". All we do know is that by the time of the autopsy, about 32 hours after her death, livor mortis WAS fixed at that point, as the coroner mentioned it.
Try to imagine this: you are carrying a clear tupperware bowl of red jello. As it sits on the counter it makes a "ring" around the inside of the bowl. If you pick it up and jostle it, it will make another ring or stain wherever it sloshed the sides of the bowl. The colored area will remain because the red color stains, and the liquid is somewhat viscous. Each time you jostle the bowl, another "splash mark" happens. But at some point, the jello will "set" and even if you move the bowl again, the liquid isn't liquid enough to move around any more. That is what happens to blood after death. It "gels" and doesn't move around the body, even if the body is moved. That's what happened here. JB was placed on her back, head cocked to the right, and LEFT there until her blood gelled. I do believe she may have been further back, deeper into the WC and that is why FW didn't see her. Then, JR could have moved her closer to the door (and the ambient light from the hall outside the WC).
Ok, perhaps I should have said LIVOR rather than RIGOR, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert. However, the point I was trying to make was that at some point the body is 'set' so it could then have been moved numerous times, without the ME being able to detect it. This is further complicated by the fact that he KNEW FOR SURE she was moved twice. I was thinking about Stephen Singular's suggestion that she was killed elsewhere and returned to the house. Eventhough it sounds far fetched, it is theoretically possible, just as it is possible that she was killed elsewhere in the house. The only 'evidence' that indicates a possible location (urine stain on the basement carpet) is only supposition.
It isn't rigor that is the problem. It is LIVOR mortis. If she had been moved more than once in the early stages, there would be multiple livor patterns There was only ONE. That's not me saying it. That's the coroner. Now let me say that she could have been moved AFTER livor became "fixed" but that would have been after people were already at the house.
Livor begins MUCH sooner than rigor. And lasts till decomp and exsanguination. (the blood leaves the body because the vessels deteriorate).
Theoretically, JR could have moved her during his "disappearance" that morning (where he really never left the house). By then, livor might have been "fixed". All we do know is that by the time of the autopsy, about 32 hours after her death, livor mortis WAS fixed at that point, as the coroner mentioned it.
Try to imagine this: you are carrying a clear tupperware bowl of red jello. As it sits on the counter it makes a "ring" around the inside of the bowl. If you pick it up and jostle it, it will make another ring or stain wherever it sloshed the sides of the bowl. The colored area will remain because the red color stains, and the liquid is somewhat viscous. Each time you jostle the bowl, another "splash mark" happens. But at some point, the jello will "set" and even if you move the bowl again, the liquid isn't liquid enough to move around any more. That is what happens to blood after death. It "gels" and doesn't move around the body, even if the body is moved. That's what happened here. JB was placed on her back, head cocked to the right, and LEFT there until her blood gelled. I do believe she may have been further back, deeper into the WC and that is why FW didn't see her. Then, JR could have moved her closer to the door (and the ambient light from the hall outside the WC).
I too thank you for that analogy...I understand liver and rigor mortis now, LOL!
Dr. Lee had asked LE if they had found the corresponding urine stains from JonBenet's panties and longjohns...and I wonder if it is fact that urine stains were found next to the wine cellar.