Tire Tracks, Shoe Prints and DJH's cars

[Arnie M]

If the driveway has beenrecently graded, that works,maybe, but the tire tracks are way too light in comparison. On a newly graded surface, the tracks are deep as well.

My hubby said it could work on the shoulder.

You have come full circle ... the picture you originally questioned is exactly that ... a road with loose dirt and gravel along the edge , and the deep footprint proves it.

 

[human]

You have come full circle ... the picture you originally questioned is exactly that ... a road with loose dirt and gravel along the edge , and the deep footprint proves it.

By the shoulder? Do you have a pic that shows where this is on the driveway? Are there more prints ?

 

[Arnie M]

By the shoulder? Do you have a pic that shows where this is on the driveway? Are there more prints ?

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Why is the print of a 75 pound boy so much deeper than a couple thousand pound car?

You asked about the picture of the footprint and now you are asking where it is ??

 

[human]

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You asked about the picture of the footprint and now you are asking where it is ??

Yes, where on the driveway is the footprint located? We know it is by a pole, but are there other tracks or footprints? Where on the driveway is this picture located?

I tried and tried to recreate a footprint like that and I could not. I tried pushing with my foot by the edge of a road but I could not get the footprint to go deep. That must be some different kind of driveway material that it is so fluffy.

 

[Ifollowthis]

The R's owned a gravel pit so I am would think they kept the driveway well graveled. I remember new gravel on our farm driveway, until it was packed you could easily get footprints that deep on the sides where the tire tracks did not go.

 

[human]

They do or did have a gravel pit. Just today the grader went down the road with the huge tire tracks sinking. People simply have to go out and try it themselves. It seems like everyone has a different experience.

Soil types vary as to what is under the gravel. Clay, loam, filled in swamp? What kind of driveway-- class 5, limestone, asphalt mix, granite , clay. Clay that is red, white, blue, etc. Did moisture form as evening fell?

Where is this footprint on the driveway and where are the perp's prints?

I find it strange that DR could be possible and DAH was considered as well. Hard to imagine they wear the same shoe size

 

[Arnie M]

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I think there has been confusion about this "driveway topic" right from the start , I am talking about here and in the media

It is my opinion the ditch containing the bicycles , as well as the laneway with the tire and shoe impressions , were NOT on the Rassier driveway AT ALL .

They were on the field entrance dirt lane ACROSS the highway from the Rassier driveway

Makes a BIG difference in this whole discussion and investigation

The field across the highway would be the preferred spot for the abductor to lurk or park his car or whatever.

Folks have been focusing on the wrong spot all along.

Pictures in post #625 in the link below.

The field is where the police car is parked

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-5&p=9786892#post9786892

 

[Wisdom]

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I think there has been confusion about this "driveway topic" right from the start , I am talking about here and in the media

It is my opinion the ditch containing the bicycles , as well as the laneway with the tire and shoe impressions , were NOT on the Rassier driveway AT ALL .

They were on the field entrance dirt lane ACROSS the highway from the Rassier driveway

Makes a BIG difference in this whole discussion and investigation

The field across the highway would be the preferred spot for the abductor to lurk or park his car or whatever.

Folks have been focusing on the wrong spot all along.

Pictures in post #625 in the link below.

The field is where the police car is parked

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-5&p=9786892#post9786892

You are correct about the placement of the bicycles across from the driveway by the mailbox. The perp came from and approached the boys on the road from the Rassier driveway. Jacob's last print was then found approx 40 yards back up the Rassier driveway.

 

[Trackergd]

You are correct about the placement of the bicycles across from the driveway by the mailbox. The perp came from and approached the boys on the road from the Rassier driveway. Jacob's last print was then found approx 40 yards back up the Rassier driveway.

Wisdom, the way you worded this made it a bit more focused in my mind.

1. The perp approached the boys on the road from the driveway.
2. Jacobs last print was found 40 yards up the driveway.

Given the above...one of the below must be true unless I missed another option).

A. The perp would have had to come from the farm
B. The perp would have needed a vehicle to leave the area and would have had it parked nearby or on the driveway.
C. The perp came in through the farm property and/or surrounding woods and left by the same egress point, given he sent the other boys in the opposite direction.

Anyone see a flaw in the above?

 

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, the way you worded this made it a bit more focused in my mind.

1. The perp approached the boys on the road from the driveway.
2. Jacobs last print was found 40 yards up the driveway.

Given the above...one of the below must be true unless I missed another option).

A. The perp would have had to come from the farm
B. The perp would have needed a vehicle to leave the area and would have had it parked nearby or on the driveway.
C. The perp came in through the farm property and/or surrounding woods and left by the same egress point, given he sent the other boys in the opposite direction.

Anyone see a flaw in the above?

Correct....but on your point "B" if a vehicle was used... it would've had to be parked back up the driveway at least 40 yards otherwise it made absolutely no sense that they walked back up the driveway that far after the abduction by the mailbox. If Kevin's story checked out... and supposedly it did....it's easy to see why LE is focused on DR or a perp on foot. There is still a lot of unknown print evidence... that the public knows about anyway... but they obviously are keeping that close to the vest which is frustrating.

 

[Cappuccino]

Wisdom, the way you worded this made it a bit more focused in my mind.

1. The perp approached the boys on the road from the driveway.
2. Jacobs last print was found 40 yards up the driveway.

Given the above...one of the below must be true unless I missed another option).

A. The perp would have had to come from the farm
B. The perp would have needed a vehicle to leave the area and would have had it parked nearby or on the driveway.
C. The perp came in through the farm property and/or surrounding woods and left by the same egress point, given he sent the other boys in the opposite direction.

Anyone see a flaw in the above?

When you put all that together, doesn't it make the most sense to say that the perp had a car parked approx. 40 yards up the driveway?

 

[Arnie M]

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All the news reports I have read say the perp came out of the dark near the R's driveway. And obviously he was on the paved road because that is where the boys were. Never have I read that he was on the R's driveway itself.

I think the driveway became a focus because a child's footprint was found there. Have they absolutely determined it was Jacobs footprint ? Remember he was wearing his shoes when he went missing , maybe family or LE were able to positively identify it as Jacobs print but I have never heard it.

All the comings and goings of multiple searchers up and down the driveway that evening makes me curious about finding that one footprint intact.

 

[Wisdom]

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All the news reports I have read say the perp came out of the dark near the R's driveway. And obviously he was on the paved road because that is where the boys were. Never have I read that he was on the R's driveway itself.

I think the driveway became a focus because a child's footprint was found there. Have they absolutely determined it was Jacobs footprint ? Remember he was wearing his shoes when he went missing , maybe family or LE were able to positively identify it as Jacobs print but I have never heard it.

All the comings and goings of multiple searchers up and down the driveway that evening makes me curious about finding that one footprint intact.

Not just a "child's" footprint....Jacob's footprints. Several sources easily available.. with a little research.. that state the perp approached from the driveway. Here is one to get you started. Here is the quote and link below that.

In 2010, another person of interest was revealed to the media. Dan Rassier, an elementary school music teacher, owns the home at the end of the driveway from which the masked gunman approached Jacob, Trevor and Aaron.
https://lightingtheirwayhome.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/jacob-wetterling-non-family-abduction-october-22-1989-usmcc000001-updated-05-04-2013/

Here is a pic from Joy's blog that gives you a good idea of where Jacob's prints lead too.

Photo by Jenny Kirk
Wednesday marked the 25th anniversary of the abduction of 11-year-old Jacob Wetterling at the end of a neighbor’s driveway along a rural road near St. Joseph in 1989. Jacob’s footprints stop near the second telephone pole. Despite hundreds of thousands of leads, it is as if Jacob and his masked abductor simply vanished.
http://www.joybaker.com/tag/jacob-wetterling/page/2/

 

[Arnie M]

Wisdom .... I am familiar with all that and have read all the articles thru the years .... yet cannot find anything conclusive about the footprint .... and remember it was first thought the footprints ended where Jacob got in the car ... but police now say no car was involved because it was that other fellow who had gone on the driveway after he heard the police scanner.

 

[Wisdom]

Wisdom .... I am familiar with all that and have read all the articles thru the years .... yet cannot find anything conclusive about the footprint .... and remember it was first thought the footprints ended where Jacob got in the car ... but police now say no car was involved because it was that other fellow who had gone on the driveway after he heard the police scanner.

Conclusive as in from LE? That will not happen.

 

[human]

Wisdom. It is so funny because the simple way you have put things brings clarity.

Clarity in that what are the other footprints? Surely if a car was used, they should have evidence of a parked car, people getting in and out of the parked car, starts and stops of tires of a parked car vs a moving car.

If it was a car, Jacob did not jump into the car as it was moving. Very strange as to why they originally determined it was a car as there would have to be a lot of signs of the perp prints as well as Jacob's. We are missing a lot.

 

[Trackergd]

Wisdom .... I am familiar with all that and have read all the articles thru the years .... yet cannot find anything conclusive about the footprint .... and remember it was first thought the footprints ended where Jacob got in the car ... but police now say no car was involved because it was that other fellow who had gone on the driveway after he heard the police scanner.

We have a pretty good picture of the footprint in question and a picture of the sole of the exact same size and style shoe that Jacob was wearing. Based on the fact that it is an statistical improbability that two individuals, wearing the same size and style shoe and weigh the same would be in the same place at the same time in a remote location pretty much ices the cake. If you want to know how I know, look at my bio.

 

[Trackergd]

When you put all that together, doesn't it make the most sense to say that the perp had a car parked approx. 40 yards up the driveway?

You could go either way with that. I think there was a car, but that is only my opinion. I base it on the fact that I have been able to see in pictures and video's from the media, what we trackers call "indicators". I did see something in one of the vehicle tracks that I think indicates a vehicle stopped and started during it's travel...OR...was backing up the driveway and made a "correction" in steering as one might do when backing up 40 yards in the dark.

 

[Arnie M]

We have a pretty good picture of the footprint in question and a picture of the sole of the exact same size and style shoe that Jacob was wearing. Based on the fact that it is an statistical improbability that two individuals, wearing the same size and style shoe and weigh the same would be in the same place at the same time in a remote location pretty much ices the cake. If you want to know how I know, look at my bio.

I am familiar with that picture , the one with a shoe superimposed beside the print as a comparison , but who made it ? Police ? Or just somebody who found a matching type shoe , and has it been confirmed by police Jacob wore such a shoe ?.

I am not saying it it is not his footprint , but all the reports I have read only say "a child's" footprint was found beside car tire tracks on the R's driveway (fine) but after all these years trying to find the car Police now say they were wrong about the car.

ps: for what its worth I have done lots of searching too , mostly from the air and some by ground and I look for the tiniest details down to 1/16th of an inch.

Do you watch Mantracker ? That show is fake and completely staged.

 

[Arnie M]

Conclusive as in from LE? That will not happen.

LE never tell us everything for good reason , but my question was about the footprint picture , was it supplied by police or somebody on webslueths ?