Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #2

[Puzzles8]

The liabilities of OceanGate will FAR exceed its assets and insurance. I'm sure they will soon file bankruptcy, it assets liquidated and distributed. Its engineers and senior admin will face lots of depositions and scrutiny and hearings in the future.

Note to self: Sell OceanGate.......ASAP

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Note to self: Sell OceanGate.......ASAP

JMO

It’ll go bankrupt after this.

 

[happyday]

@10ofRods I saw your questions about the weight drop system & since I saw this on TV & don’t have a link I will say this as MOO. A reporter on scene there said it had a “necklace” that corroded after 24 hours in the water which would release the weights and the sub would float to the surface. That would be the automated system I guess.

 

[gitana1]

Military submarines don't go anywhere near these depths. Did Alvin, the submersible that Robert Ballard used to first look at Titanic, have a hatch that could be opened from inside?

It looks like it does. It says the hatch is held closed by the pressure of the water from above. I'm not sure how that works when you're only a few feet below sea level, but... DSV Alvin - Wikipedia

 

[LadyL]

I wonder whether the banging is related to underwater currents and it's the sound of an entangled submersible banging against the remains of the Titanic.

but it was every 30 minutes which indicates to me human pattern

 

[LadyL]

Dr Boxall said a distress signal from the submarine has been sent out.

He told PA: “This is second-hand knowledge but my understanding is that they have received a signal from the submarine.

“You can’t use radios underwater.

“You rely totally on ‘pings’. What they have is really limited communication.

“Apparently they have had, and I don’t know when, they have had an emergency ping saying the vessel is in distress.

“I don’t know if that is automatically generated or generated by people on board.

“It could be that the vessel is lost already or it could be automatic.”

He said he did not know when the message was transmitted.

What we know about the missing Titan submersible and those on board

Here is what we know so far about the missing 22ft long vessel and those on board, including the British billionaire adventurer Hamish Harding.

www.independent.co.uk

wow I wonder if he's correct

 

[10ofRods]

This is what leads me to believe that there really isn't anything left to surface. If it imploded on the way down, small debris would have floated to the surface, but tiny pieces would not likely be seen.

There was a video of a submersible (robot driven) being tested at depth (6000 feet below the surface). Cameras filmed while the submersible imploded. It took 1/1500th of a second and virtually nothing was visible of that sub afterwards. Not even bits of debris. Incredibly pulverized.

Indeed, one submersible passenger said that was comforting, as it would be instantaneous death. Brain signals travel at around 1/250th of a second between synapses.

I'm also reading that the debris field from a sub implosion is very large and of course, if it's near the bottom of the ocean, it's not likely to move upward.

And now I"m reading that Rush's stupid "hull censor fail" mechanisms (sensors) would only warn milliseconds before catastrophic failure!!

The missing Titanic sub would only detect hull failure 'milliseconds before an implosion,' company executive warned in 2018

David Lochridge warned that OceanGate had no way of knowing if the hull was being affected by existing flaws, but said he was immediately fired.

www.insider.com

 

[JennieM]

40 min ago​

Navy salvage system is in St. John’s and preparing for mobilization, Navy official says​

From CNN's Oren Liebermann

A US Navy salvage system has arrived in St. John’s, Newfoundland, a Navy official said Wednesday, as crews prepare it for mobilization to the site of the ongoing search for a missing submersible.

The Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) is capable of retrieving objects or vessels off the bottom of the ocean floor up to a depth of 20,000 feet, more than enough to reach the wreckage of the Titanic.

But before the FADOSS system can be used, it must be welded to the deck of a ship, a process which can take a full day, the official said.

“Our estimate is approximately 24 hours of round-the-clock operation to weld it and secure it to the deck of the vessel prior to getting underway,” the official said on a call with reporters.

The Navy does not currently have a vessel lined up to carry the FADOSS to the site, but the official said they are trying to contract a vessel soon.

“We have a vessel of opportunity that we are looking to put under charter, but it is not currently under charter,” said the official.

The FADOSS was most recently used to recover a F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jet from the Mediterranean Sea last July. Its deepest recovery to date was at 19,075 feet, the Navy official said.

Asked if it had ever recovered someone alive, the official said, “Usually, we're recovering objects from the bottom or aircraft from a mishap.”

June 21, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub search news

A massive search operation is underway in an area twice the size of Connecticut for the submersible that went missing Sunday — as officials fear there's less than a day's worth of oxygen left on board the craft.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Warwick1991]

Military submarines don't go anywhere near these depths. Did Alvin, the submersible that Robert Ballard used to first look at Titanic, have a hatch that could be opened from inside?

The Alvin had a "plug hatch" kept in place by water pressure, with the flange outside. All military submarine hatches open outward, so once they are dogged, they are also held in place by water pressure. But the US Navy has regulations for submersibles that carry passengers. See: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/5ps/NVIC/1993/n5-93.pdf
Those regulations require escape hatches.

The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute website has articles on submersibles, including Alvin. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
The design details of the hatch are not noted.

IMO, there would be no sound engineering reason to bolt down the hatch from the outside. If the area around the hatch is adequately reinforced, I think a variety of locking mechanisms can hold it in place from the inside, as long as the flange is on the outside. Oxygen supplies are limited by space constraints in small submersibles, so IMO most sane designers would want to allow a quick exit if someone has been trapped below for a while...

 

[cuffem]

HMS Thetis disaster is an interesting story about their attempts to retrieve the sailors aboard. There is an episode of this on Disasters of The Century free on Tubi streaming.

HMS Thetis (N25) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[10ofRods]

@10ofRods I saw your questions about the weight drop system & since I saw this on TV & don’t have a link I will say this as MOO. A reporter on scene there said it had a “necklace” that corroded after 24 hours in the water which would release the weights and the sub would float to the surface. That would be the automated system I guess.

THANK you. Yeah, just reread those 7 methods of resurfacing and this appears to be the best guess at the "dead man switch" example. The others all require action (one of the listed 7 methods is impossible since it was impossible to stand inside the Titan - so those 7 examples are just that: examples of how it *can* be done).

I await confirmation that this ever happened on a Titan. The people detailing their passenger experience (I think there are three now) say the ballast was old pipe but they don't say how it was disconnected and left behind. Some of of mechanism must surely have been involved - but whether that mechanism depended on electricity, well, we'll have to wait until experts begin to weigh in on how they think this tragedy went down.

I've now lost my optimism. And I'm angry at CEO Rush.

JMO.

 

[Sundog]

This was posted earlier, it is an interview from Good Morning Britain with a journalist who viewed the Titanic in a submersible like the Titan, and this was 23 years ago. The submersible he was on was pulled by a current into the propeller of the Titanic and was wedged there. For about an hour, the pilot of the submersible tried to get it free, and during that hour the journalist thought that would be how his life ended. He is incredibly emotional during this interview as he strongly identifies with the Titan five.

He does note that his submersible did not lose communication with the mother ship/research ship during this crisis, and that the pilot did ultimately manage eventually to get them free.

 

[lonetraveler]

All aboard were fully aware of the risks. (imo, of course)

I'm sorry but I'm thinking the document covered unforeseen situations. I simply can't see the document covering the lack of stress testing on that hull or anything else for that matter considering design or lack thereof.

 

[MsMarple]

Of course I hope for a successful outcome.

I know the Coast Guard Chief said it is still absolutely a search and rescue mission and not a recovery.

Still, I can’t help wondering what happens if they aren’t found tomorrow by the time the oxygen has definitively expired.

Naturally families would want the bodies recovered, but is that wise? I think there’s quite a danger for rescuers and the costs of this are enormous for taxpayers.

Or am I being ghoulish?

IMO more pragmatic than ghoulish. The rescue operation must be somewhere in the 7 figure range by now and I feel like they all know it’s futile but momentum keeps pushing them forward.

Imagine if the Navy for example announced “It’s too late so we’re going to turn around and be on our way.” Public outcry would be enormous IMO. And I think there’s an expectation that at least some of the ships and planes will make their best effort to recover the passengers if it ends that way.

Maybe the families will help defray some of the costs but realistically if the search was for average (not wealthy) people their families wouldn’t be expected to pay. It’s hard to put a price on human lives. But how much is enough and how long is enough? I don’t know.

 

[Warwick1991]

Sadly, I don’t believe there is any way to rescue them. Open the submersible and instant death; raise too quickly and the bends will get you. The bangs seemed intentional to me. The only thing I can imagine is if there was a vehicle large enough to enclose the craft where it could then be safely opened and then slowly ascend. I fear this is a recovery operation at this point.

As designed, the submersible is pressurized inside - as it ascends the passengers would not need to be concerned about the bends.

 

[lonetraveler]

I am still inclined to think that the Titan has been destroyed, although I hope I'm wrong. As far as the 7 ways to surface in an emergency, I'm not convinced that the engineering is good enough for any or all of them to work. If the "deadman" method - the release by rope that would deteriorate in a certain timeframe - worked, the Titan would be on the surface. If it is submerged, but near the surface, that is a sign of poor engineering that did not account for water temperature and other factors affecting buoyancy.

Although the timed underwater noises/banging were very encouraging, it is also possible that these noises were emitted by surface vessels in the vicinity, and don't originate deep underwater. That problem occurred during the MH370 search.

Honestly, I don't think engineering and design standards were even considered. It would take too much time to do so. JMO

 

[flowershop]

40 min ago​

Navy salvage system is in St. John’s and preparing for mobilization, Navy official says​

From CNN's Oren Liebermann

A US Navy salvage system has arrived in St. John’s, Newfoundland, a Navy official said Wednesday, as crews prepare it for mobilization to the site of the ongoing search for a missing submersible.

The Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) is capable of retrieving objects or vessels off the bottom of the ocean floor up to a depth of 20,000 feet, more than enough to reach the wreckage of the Titanic.

But before the FADOSS system can be used, it must be welded to the deck of a ship, a process which can take a full day, the official said.



The Navy does not currently have a vessel lined up to carry the FADOSS to the site, but the official said they are trying to contract a vessel soon.

“We have a vessel of opportunity that we are looking to put under charter, but it is not currently under charter,” said the official.

The FADOSS was most recently used to recover a F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jet from the Mediterranean Sea last July. Its deepest recovery to date was at 19,075 feet, the Navy official said.

Asked if it had ever recovered someone alive, the official said, “Usually, we're recovering objects from the bottom or aircraft from a mishap.”

June 21, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub search news

A massive search operation is underway in an area twice the size of Connecticut for the submersible that went missing Sunday — as officials fear there's less than a day's worth of oxygen left on board the craft.

edition.cnn.com

It takes almost a day to weld the FADOSS to the deck of a ship?! Not good for a rescue mission of this nature.

 

[fred&edna]

Also, a bit of an interesting happening regarding company RMS Titanic, Inc. in 2016. It seems the artifacts or grave "loot" (however, anyone chooses to view these items) has always been popular with many countries.

Titanic Artifacts Caught in International Tug-of-War

 

[JDG]

Missing Titan sub battery suddenly DRAINED during 2022 Titanic trip

A YouTuber who once traveled to the Titanic on the missing Titan sub shared how the vehicle's batteries suddenly drained during the expedition, forcing it to end early.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

Food is irrelevant here. Oxygen and water are the main concerns I can think of. Someone can only go about 3 days without water. It's supposed to be about 3 weeks for food. I doubt they took enough water for four days, so that means eking out what they did take. Next stop would be the ziplock bags, if you catch my drift.

There was a quote in the last thread that said the CO2 scrubbers could extend the available oxygen beyond 96 hours. As far as I know that would make water the key to surviving long enough for rescue.

I think hypothermia is likely the biggest danger, prior to oxygen running out.

The "three dog night" scenario (where your bodies keep each other warm) will only last for as long as those bodies can stay warm. The temp 2 miles down at the bottom of the ocean is 0C-4C/32-39F, body temp is usually 37C/98F.
Every chart I look at says that once the cold sets in, death can occur in minutes. Link

We have had people survive being lost in the outback for 6 days without water, due to drinking (sipping) their urine.