TN TN - Chloie Leverette, 9, & Gage Daniel, 7, Unionville, 23 Sept 2012

[Indy Anna]

My husband pointed out something I hadn't considered.

Propane gas is heavier than air.

Not being an expert on arson, I'm not sure if this is significant or not. I tend to think it is but I'm not sure what the significance is.

I would think that, if the propane tanks fueled the fire (i.e., if they were the source or a factor in the fire), the fire would have been less destructive on the upper levels of the house. Although the flames would still travel to the upper levels of the house, the propane would have remained in the basement so that the fire above ground would have been less intense and likely not as quick-burning as the fire in the basement. Does this make sense?

The significance could be that no evidence of the children's remains indicates they were in the basement when the fire started and the lack of remains is due to the intensity of the fire which was concentrated in the basement. The discovery of the grandparents' and pets' remains, then, could mean they were on an upper level of the house when the fire began, were overcome by smoke inhalation, and their bodies charred when the house crumbled to the ground.

I'm not certain about this, and if I'm correct I know it doesn't help solve the case. How would anyone know where the children were when the fire started if their remains aren't found? They could've been in the basement, but then again they may not have been in the house. We're right back where we started.

 

[Portabella]

This is just me thinking aloud. But...If the grandparents were intact enough for soot to be found in their airways, the bird was intact enough to know it was a bird, the pet dog was found and intact enough to know it was the beloved dog. And poof nothing, absolutely nothing of the children....I do not believe they were in the basement, unless they shared a bedroom in the basement and were in bed sleeping. I would think they would find something ...anything of them left in their room. Photo's were charred and posted on memorial page.... These chldren are out there somewhere, in what shape, we have no way of knowing....but they are out there...I firmly believe this...So frustrating...IMHO

 

[GateKeeper]

This is just me thinking aloud. But...If the grandparents were intact enough for soot to be found in their airways, the bird was intact enough to know it was a bird, the pet dog was found and intact enough to know it was the beloved dog. And poof nothing, absolutely nothing of the children....I do not believe they were in the basement, unless they shared a bedroom in the basement and were in bed sleeping. I would think they would find something ...anything of them left in their room. Photo's were charred and posted on memorial page.... These chldren are out there somewhere, in what shape, we have no way of knowing....but they are out there...I firmly believe this...So frustrating...IMHO

I TOTALLY agree.
These two lil ones werent in that house when it burned..IMO. This is an awful tragedy. Two people are dead..two children are missing! Why in heavens name arent they being looked for?? Where are the searchers? Why arent they plastered all over the news? This is HUGE...but all I hear is crickets. :maddening:

 

[nursebeeme]

crickets AND the AA is still active

 

[carbuff]

I would think that, if the propane tanks fueled the fire (i.e., if they were the source or a factor in the fire), the fire would have been less destructive on the upper levels of the house. Although the flames would still travel to the upper levels of the house, the propane would have remained in the basement so that the fire above ground would have been less intense and likely not as quick-burning as the fire in the basement. Does this make sense?

The significance could be that no evidence of the children's remains indicates they were in the basement when the fire started and the lack of remains is due to the intensity of the fire which was concentrated in the basement. The discovery of the grandparents' and pets' remains, then, could mean they were on an upper level of the house when the fire began, were overcome by smoke inhalation, and their bodies charred when the house crumbled to the ground.

I'm not certain about this, and if I'm correct I know it doesn't help solve the case. How would anyone know where the children were when the fire started if their remains aren't found? They could've been in the basement, but then again they may not have been in the house. We're right back where we started.

Based on a similar fire in my area (in which nobody was killed, thank God, cause was just some idiot storing his supply of tailgate-party propane in the basement) the opposite is true -- the propane burns hot, fuels the flames, and torches everything above it. There was nothing left of the house but foundation and chimney, and the chimney was crumbling.

eta: I went looking for the photos, but they've aged out of the newspaper's website already

 

[GrainneDhu]

Well, one thing it might mean is that if one or more of the tanks was leaking, even a very slow leak would have caused the propane to pool in the basement. If they didn't go into the basement often, it could have been undetected for some time until something caused it to ignite -- flipping on a light switch, perhaps.

Light switches here in Iowa are usually located at the top of the stairs; I'd think that if the propane had pooled up high enough to be lit by an electric switch, they would have been able to smell the propane.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is just me thinking aloud. But...If the grandparents were intact enough for soot to be found in their airways, the bird was intact enough to know it was a bird, the pet dog was found and intact enough to know it was the beloved dog. And poof nothing, absolutely nothing of the children....I do not believe they were in the basement, unless they shared a bedroom in the basement and were in bed sleeping. I would think they would find something ...anything of them left in their room. Photo's were charred and posted on memorial page.... These chldren are out there somewhere, in what shape, we have no way of knowing....but they are out there...I firmly believe this...So frustrating...IMHO

I agree.

I find it really difficult to believe that the UTenn Body Farm team could go through a site and not find one single bit of remains from the two children who lived there.

I don't see any reason they would have had bedrooms in the basement. I haven't seen the house plans and just remember seeing one photo of one side of the house before it burned but it didn't look tiny to me, the way a one bedroom house would look. It looked like it would have room for 2 or 3 bedrooms.

I've had a sick feeling that it will be hunters who find the children. And deer season in Tennessee isn't over until the middle of January. If I recall right, they're in the middle of muzzle loader and archery season right now.

 

[GateKeeper]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50278844/

TBI: Very few leads in case of missing children

As family of Chloie Leverette and Gage Daniel prepare for the holidays without their loved ones, investigators with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said they have few leads in the search for the missing children.

A balloon release was held Saturday for the children at the Unionville home they vanished from back in September. Tied to balloons were messages in bottles including love letters and missing persons flyers.

"We identified the meaning of each balloon," said family member Mary Lamb. "The green is life, and we do believe Chloie and Gage are out there somewhere. We pray for their return."

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/20409698/tbi-very-few-leads-in-case-of-missing-children

Posted: Dec 22, 2012 12:59 PM EST
Updated: Dec 22, 2012 11:06 PM EST
Posted by Micca Terrell

UNIONVILLE, TN (WSMV) -As family of Chloie Leverette and Gage Daniel prepare for the holidays without their loved ones, investigators with the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation said they have few leads in the search for the missing children.

 

[No Stone Unturned]

Just checked TBI, the Amber Alerts are still active. Still list suspect as Male.

Where in the world are these children?

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/missing_children/active_alert/documents/alert456cache1375poster.pdf

 

[Crimson clover]

No night, especially this night, falls right...without thinking of you, Chloie and Gage. I trust the arms of Jesus comfort you this Christmas Eve. Wherever you may be, little children.

Merry Christmas.

 

[GateKeeper]

:bump:

Just bumping up the thread.
Sureeeee wish we would hear about some searches going on.

 

[SailorMoon]

I don't understand the lack of ....searching, news, something. 2 little children are gone and no one seems to care. Their pics need to be everywhere. I'm only left to think that this is a Shasta Groene thing. Someone needs to be able to recognize these children.

 

[Crimson clover]

The night falls hard...thinkin of you little ones, Chloie and Gage.
A new year dawning...hoping and praying for you guys, your family, and all who choose to think and say a prayer for you tonight.

 

[deca]

Um, I don't know if I am dumb or if I missed something. They have the AA suspect listed as male? Do they KNOW a male has them, or they are just throwing that out there as a "most likely"?

 

[carbuff]

Um, I don't know if I am dumb or if I missed something. They have the AA suspect listed as male? Do they KNOW a male has them, or they are just throwing that out there as a "most likely"?

Good question and no answer.

 

[GateKeeper]

Um, I don't know if I am dumb or if I missed something. They have the AA suspect listed as male? Do they KNOW a male has them, or they are just throwing that out there as a "most likely"?

Nope..youre neither dumb nor have you missed something. We've all been asking the same question. Although,recently, it was posted that the detail about the "male" had been taken out of the AA.

 

[Crimson clover]

I agree.

I find it really difficult to believe that the UTenn Body Farm team could go through a site and not find one single bit of remains from the two children who lived there.

I don't see any reason they would have had bedrooms in the basement. I haven't seen the house plans and just remember seeing one photo of one side of the house before it burned but it didn't look tiny to me, the way a one bedroom house would look. It looked like it would have room for 2 or 3 bedrooms.

I've had a sick feeling that it will be hunters who find the children. And deer season in Tennessee isn't over until the middle of January. If I recall right, they're in the middle of muzzle loader and archery season right now.

Somehow, can't retreive my lil "BUMP" thingie...
So..."BUMP thingie" for Chloie Leverette and Gage Daniel.

BBM...May I ask the educated sleuthing mind...why lil Chloie & Gage would be found by hunters? Under what hypothesis? A girl, 9...and a boy, 7. I wrap my mind around assorted scenarios...nothing seems logistical. I sit pondering here, close to 4 months now...only with a gut-wrenching ache that these little ones were NOT in that fire. I dunno why '$$$' play out in my head. Wish I knew more of the family dynamics. Wish I could talk to Aunt Joy, or Ms. Mary Lamb.
Umph...Umph...Umph.

 

[carbuff]

Somehow, can't retreive my lil "BUMP" thingie...
So..."BUMP thingie" for Chloie Leverette and Gage Daniel.

BBM...May I ask the educated sleuthing mind...why lil Chloie & Gage would be found by hunters? Under what hypothesis? A girl, 9...and a boy, 7. I wrap my mind around assorted scenarios...nothing seems logistical. I sit pondering here, close to 4 months now...only with a gut-wrenching ache that these little ones were NOT in that fire. I dunno why '$$$' play out in my head. Wish I knew more of the family dynamics. Wish I could talk to Aunt Joy, or Ms. Mary Lamb.
Umph...Umph...Umph.

Well, one thing I keep wondering about is murder/suicide.

 

[Crimson clover]

Well, one thing I keep wondering about is murder/suicide.

I never really put much thought into the murder/suicide scenario, carbuff...but, of all the 'wth' happened's, it would be a situation we, nor the family, could remotely figure out, nor explain. Suicide? If you've felt it in your family, or the lingering effects of it...you understand what I'm talkin bout.

Mrs. Mollie was sick. Her breast cancer had returned, and was on morphine and ? (Idk drugs!). They were aging grandparents, with young children in their care...responsibly accepting :rocker: to fill the void of negligent nurturing (MOO, of course...experience talkin here :seeya...Twenty propane tanks in the basement...

I guess I could consider this playing out...all but for one lil tidbit.
NO remains were found of Chloie and Gage.

Thanks for your response. This one's got me strangled in emotion!