TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[otto]

I feel even worse about this case after reading the stuff about how hard she was working, cleaning houses, landscaping, teaching at the Y, taking lots of odd jobs.

It's not clear what kind of education she had, but it makes me sick to see a woman who did not have a good source of income that would have allowed her to leave a relationship that was clearly not working and even get an apartment for herself and her daughters.

A great, hard-working person and mom. Really thinking of her kids in this holiday season.

I too have wondered why she didn't have any money. It looks like they had everything they needed as a family, so why didn't she have access to enough money to get an apartment. That makes no sense ... 20 years as a wife and mother, but she seemed to have not a penny to her name. Was her husband controlling?

 

[tarabull]

Here's the weather history for Dyersburg since October 2011...

It doesn't seem to have been very cold there lately, I mean it's been raining but not cold enough to snow...

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[scroll down at the link for an actual calender, you can click ahead to Nov/Dec...]

 

[tarabull]

I sure wish the astro thread was still opened....Karen may very well have been found - not only the same day as a full moon but also a total lunar eclipse [there won't be another until April of 2014]...

I know it was potent but never would have imagined what this day would bring.

 

[otto]

Here's the weather history for Dyersburg since October 2011...

It doesn't seem to have been very cold there lately, I mean it's been raining but not cold enough to snow...

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[scroll down at the link for an actual calender, you can click ahead to Nov/Dec...]

It looks like it was below freezing a couple of times so it could have snowed, but the ground wouldn't have been frozen ... what do you think?

 

[otto]

I sure wish the astro thread was still opened....Karen may very well have been found - not only the same day as a full moon but also a total lunar eclipse [there won't be another until April of 2014]...

I know it was potent but never would have imagined what this day would bring.

I photographed it

 

[tarabull]

It looks like it was below freezing a couple of times so it could have snowed, but the ground wouldn't have been frozen ... what do you think?

I agree I don't think the ground would have been frozen.

 

[otto]

I agree I don't think the ground would have been frozen.

November temperatures look cold enough to keep a body from decomposing too quickly ... not like in Florida.

If she was in a shallow grave, that would have to fit in the timeline and there would be somewhat muddy clothes or shoes in or around the house. If she was in a shallow grave, there's little chance this was done by a random, opportunistic stranger that coincidentally stumbled across her path, murdered her, hid her clothes, turned off her phone and took the time to bury her in or near a cemetery ... definitely not a random stranger murder.

 

[ThoughtFox]

This is interesting ... that the cause of death could be known by Monday. That suggests to me that the cause of death may be obvious by looking at the body. If there is too much decomposition, I doubt they would say that.

"Due to the state of decomposition to the body it will be sent to the medical examiner's office in Memphis. They will compare dental records that we have to Ms. Swift to determine if there is a positive identification."

According to Box, the medical examiner's office will most likely have identification results by Monday as well as a cause of death."

(same link as above)

One thing to think about is that it's been really cold the past few weeks here in Tennessee. That would delay some decomposition, I would think.

I believe police are just getting their ducks in a row to make sure they don't overlook anything so they want confirmation. Also, since Karen has a mother and children and friends, they want to be sure beyond 99% that it is her.

The last post I wrote before this news broke was that we shouldn't give up hope, and we shouldn't. Ever. :twocents: I was reading the article about Karen's friends texting with her about jobs she was doing - exercise classes, cleaning houses, doing landscaping - and none of that sounds like someone who is running off with some guy into the night. All of it sounds like someone very grounded who wants to stay right there and raise her children.

 

[otto]

Here's a picture of Bledsoe Cemetery ... probably taken at a similar time of year - bare trees.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I agree I don't think the ground would have been frozen.

The ground would have frozen and thawed a few times, but it has been really cold in TN with temps in the low 30s at night for several weeks. We've had some rain, but it's been a cold rain, and the Memphis area had a snow and ice storm the other day.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm not surprised that they found her close to home. The river where they searched a while back was also close to the home.

Is there any word who came across the remains in the graveyard? I just can't believe she was found in a graveyard on the night of the full moon. I'm speechless.

Edited to Add: One more thing . . . it's pretty obvious now that the missing women in Tennessee are NOT connected, isn't it? Gail Palmgren was found less than two miles from home, and if this is Karen, she was 3 miles from home. I bet when they find Holly Bobo she won't have been taken that far from home either. Just a gut feeling. It's not a wandering serial kidnapper but something more sinister - a threat in their own backyards.

 

[LindaG]

I too have wondered why she didn't have any money. It looks like they had everything they needed as a family, so why didn't she have access to enough money to get an apartment. That makes no sense ... 20 years as a wife and mother, but she seemed to have not a penny to her name. Was her husband controlling?

I get the impression that he was that controlling. I think he wanted to make it as hard on her as possible. I read that after her first divorce from him, he made it so hard on her that she did not want to remarry him but she did - probably for the sake of the two little boys.

She couldn't leave until she was able to live on her own. She was becoming more and more independent and there was only one way he could see to stop her from leaving. and taking everything.

He had lots of 'toys' and comforts that he had worked and paid for he was not about to give them up, or sell the house and his possessions to pay her what the courts would say was her fair share. I have known men like this.

One other thing. Didn't we read that cadaver dogs did not hit on Karen's car? Did they hit on the husband's truck, or did he maybe haul her body using a tractor or 3-wheeler, possibly one that was used by the boys. As I recall, he did not allow a more thorough search of the grounds and property, but I may have missed that info, somehow. moo

 

[otto]

The ground would have frozen and thawed a few times, but it has been really cold in TN with temps in the low 30s at night for several weeks. We've had some rain, but it's been a cold rain, and the Memphis area had a snow and ice storm the other day.

Would it have been frozen in the sense that someone would have difficulties digging a shallow grave?

 

[LindaG]

I sure wish the astro thread was still opened....Karen may very well have been found - not only the same day as a full moon but also a total lunar eclipse [there won't be another until April of 2014]...

I know it was potent but never would have imagined what this day would bring.

I would hope that other missing persons might be found, as well. So many missing.

 

[otto]

I get the impression that he was that controlling. I think he wanted to make it as hard on her as possible. I read that after her first divorce from him, he made it so hard on her that she did not want to remarry him but she did - probably for the sake of the two little boys.

She couldn't leave until she was able to live on her own. She was becoming more and more independent and there was only one way he could see to stop her from leaving. and taking everything.

He had lots of 'toys' and comforts that he had worked and paid for he was not about to give them up, or sell the house and his possessions to pay her what the courts would say was her fair share. I have known men like this.

One other thing. Didn't we read that cadaver dogs did not hit on Karen's car? Did they hit on the husband's truck, or did he maybe haul her body using a tractor or 3-wheeler, possibly one that was used by the boys. As I recall, he did not allow a more thorough search of the grounds and property, but I may have missed that info, somehow. moo

Were tracking dogs or cadavre dogs used with her car. Tracking dogs makes sense, but they wouldn't necessarily assume that she was a cadavre when she left the car. I don't know what happened with the search ... other than a general search of the house to ensure that Karen wasn't there. I think a specific or thorough search was denied without a warrant.

He was most likely controlling if she had no money and didn't feel comfortable taking money out of the family account for herself and the girls.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Would it have been frozen in the sense that someone would have difficulties digging a shallow grave?

Now they might, but not back at Halloween when she disappeared. The weather only got below freezing here in the past two weeks.

(Actually I live in East Tennessee, but the temperatures are not that different in the winter)

ETA: Right now it's 30 degrees in Dyersburg, and is supposed to go as low as 28.
http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Dyersburg+TN+38024

 

[LindaG]

I'm not surprised that they found her close to home. The river where they searched a while back was also close to the home.

Is there any word who came across the remains in the graveyard? I just can't believe she was found in a graveyard on the night of the full moon. I'm speechless.

Edited to Add: One more thing . . . it's pretty obvious now that the missing women in Tennessee are NOT connected, isn't it? Gail Palmgren was found less than two miles from home, and if this is Karen, she was 3 miles from home. I bet when they find Holly Bobo she won't have been taken that far from home either. Just a gut feeling. It's not a wandering serial kidnapper but something more sinister - a threat in their own backyards.

One of the articles linked to this site by another poster said that workmen found the body. I thought they were linemen (?) and the body was described as female. It sounds as if the cause of death was somewhat identifiable to LE or that it will be easily determined (officially) by Monday. jmoo

 

[ThoughtFox]

Temps in November for Dyersburg:
http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/38024?month=-1

The high on November 1st was 72 with a low of 39.

Looks like there have been lots of nights below freezing there, so decomposition and insect activity would have been slower than in summer. Of course we've had lots of rain, unfortunately, and there are scavengers all year round.

 

[dovebar]

It will be interesting to see if we learn anything about the days when she and the girls were absent from the home. What kind of activity went on then? What was her husband doing? What about the neighbor? Were there sightings of people in the area where she was found? If so, what were they doing there?

 

[tarabull]

Would it have been frozen in the sense that someone would have difficulties digging a shallow grave?

I hate to respond with my life's experience but ironically, I just watched 1 man dig a hole 2'x2'x2' in minutes, somewhere it's been an average of -10C for approx. 10 days...

...just saying.