TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #2

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Hello Nerosleuth, sorry for the long delay in my response. The area behind the KK has a commercial, even "industrial" feel. Even though it's only a block from the major intersection of Nolensville Pike/Thompson Lane, to me the area only a block away, along McClain around the alley and Grandview feels lonely, desolate. And that is during the daytime, let alone at night. In terms of buildings that were there in 1969, 502 West Thompson Lane was there (it's a Furniture Warehouse today, not sure 45 years ago); 2802 Grandview was there (the white cinder-block commercial printing business behind the lot behind KK), as was 2801 Nolensville Pike, which in '69 may have been a residence but today is psychic business. The alley runs between 2802 Grandview (on the west) and 2801 Nolensville Pike (on the east).
 
Welcome back, Ellroy. I don't know if I can put my hands on the links right now, but when we were actively discussing Kathy's murder in 2013, I located a couple of FB groups which talked about old Nashville neighborhoods, shopping centers and the skating rink, etc. From those posts I gathered that first block off of Thompson was residential, much different than it appears on Google maps today. One or two posters on a FB group page even named off the families that resided in the first couple of blocks. True, there was that vacant lot where Kathy was found, but even though I tend to believe she was abducted from in front of the KK, I wouldn't be surprised to learn she walked to Thompson from Grandview, approaching KK from the rear.

JMO

ETA: This is a neat tool I posted on the previous thread. If you have the patience to work with it, you can see the changes to the intersection from 1951 to 2006. I'm afraid the nearest image to 1969 is 1957, though. Turn on "all roads" overlay, and zoom in once or twice. The Grandview Ave label will appear running diagonally between McCLain and SR 155, which is Thompson Ln.

http://www.historicaerials.com/aeri...1115721164052&lon=-86.7468142688424&year=1951
 
Hello Bessie, thank you. I will check out the views of the intersection. When I've read the microfilm of the news stories of the day, I'd read about residents who lived one or two blocks away, and they'd report what they did or didn't see. It's hard to imagine anyone living in the neighborhood only a block away today, it feels so commercial. It does not feel at all residential. 2801 Nolensville looks like it would've been a house, and it is one block away. I just located a newspaper pic from 1969 that shows the alley at night (behind 2801 Nolensville Pike). I will post it in a moment here....
 
From the December 4th, 1969 Tennessean. The alley at night. The pic is dark, but that's 2802 Grandview on the left (the south wall, east end), and the back of 2801 Nolensville Pike lit up, just on the other side of the alley. The reporter is standing in the alley. The vacant lot (and KK beyond) would be to the right of the photographer.
1969 (12-04) Tennessean.jpg

The photographer was standing here, just behind the chain link fence on the back side of 2802 Grandview....
IMG_0107.jpg

... and aiming the camera here, towards the back of 2801 Nolensville (for point of reference, note blue dumpster).....
IMG_0105.jpg
 
I just can't see her walking through that alley after dark even if it did run behind neighbors' yards. But then again, if she felt really safe in her neighborhood, she might. If that is, in fact, the case, anyone could have followed her off of Nolensville and into the alley.

Can you tell this case drives me crazy. I would so like to see it solved, even if the perp is dead. I still have the feeling he might have been a traveler staying in one of the motels along Nolensville Pike, like the one at the corner of Kathy's street.
 
I just can't see her walking through that alley after dark even if it did back up to neighbors' yards. But then again, if she felt really safe in her neighborhood, she might. If that is, in fact, the case, anyone could have followed her off of Nolensville and into the alley.

Can you tell this case drives me crazy. I would so like to see it solved, even if the perp is dead. I still have the feeling he might have been a traveler staying in one of the motels along Nolensville Pike, like the one at the corner of Kathy's street.

I would really like to see this one solved, too, bessie!
 
"I just can't see her walking through that alley after dark..."

I feel a similar way. So much depends on the perception of safety in any one time and place. I can’t imagine her walking there at all after dark even on the main roads (let alone cutting down, say, poorly lit McClain Ave. and passing through the alley) but maybe that was perceived as perfectly safe back then.
1969 (12-03) Banner.jpg
 
Any idea why the diagram shows a diagonal path from Kathy's home over to Joyner St? I'm wondering if there was a vacant lot that residents used to cut through from Lutie over to Nolensville? That messes with my motel theory a bit, but not entirely.

Kathy and I weren't exactly the same age, but close enough that I can relate to the era. The neighborhood where I lived in the 60's was similar to Kathy's -- typical baby boomer suburb near a highway with a shopping center, swanky family bowling alley, and modern, friendly "motor courts". It was as safe as anywhere on the planet at the time. On one street, there was an alley between houses that we used as a shortcut to get to the shopping center. No one thought twice about walking through there alone during the day, but I never would have walked through there alone after dark, even though the parking lot it opened on to would have been busy with shoppers going to and from their cars. And I'm pretty sure none of my friends would have done so. So for what it's worth, that's why I feel so certain Kathy didn't walk through the alley in her neighborhood, either.
 
"Any idea why the diagram shows a diagonal path from Kathy's home over to Joyner St? I'm wondering if there was a vacant lot that residents used to cut through from Lutie over to Nolensville? "

The short answer is, yes. I want to put up a more detailed post later with images and documentation when I am able, but for now to describe it:

Fire Station 21, at 320 Joyner Ave., was the shortcut. The building there today is just a few years old at most, but the original fire station from what I've found thus far seems to have been built in the early sixties. It had/has a back entrance driveway that goes north up to Lutie St. Before the station and driveway was built a house would likely have been there, at 315 Lutie Street. The driveway, then as now, is bordered by houses at 313 Lutie on the east and 317 Lutie on the west. It is between these two houses, going south down the driveway behind the fire station, that Kathy would have walked (according to the newspaper map).

She then would have turned slightly to the right, going from directly south to going southwest, along the western edge of the fire station, cutting diagonally across the parking lot at 2612 Nolensville Pike. That parking lot, and 2612 Nolensville, is there today, the northeast corner of Joyner and Nolensville. Today 2612 Nolensville is a Cash America Pawn, but it appears the building is a re-purposed grocery store. From what I have found, the building was built in 1950, so it would have been there at the time. A contemporary newspaper account says a witness saw her that night crossing a grocery store parking lot at the Joyner/Nolensville intersection.

This parking lot on the northern corner of Joyner, at Nolensville: From what I have read thus far, that was the last known sighting of her.

The parking lot fronts onto both Nolensville and Joyner. Joyner makes up the southern border of the parking lot, so she would have crossed the parking lot, going from the northeast towards the southwest, exiting the parking lot onto and across Joyner, and on to Nolensville.

So far I have not found any info on witnesses who saw anything after that.
 
Sorry if this has been posted here before, but there's a video online out there called "The old Thompson Lane Tunnel / Underpass in Nashville Tennessee", a vhs tape "taken on January 1, 1984 of the old 2-lane underpass on Thompson Lane in Nashville Tennessee."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMb4E9S5UNQ

After they go under the tunnel, "you see Famous State Sales in the building where Performance Studios is now, which was once the old Roller Drome Skating Rink (a place I skated as a kid). Then you see the original Siam Cafe, which moved many years ago."

The Famous State Sales (Performance Studios) building can be seen with its two-story yellow sign with black letters. They then make a right turn pulling into the parking lot of the present day Performance Studios, on the side of the Siam Cafe (519 W. Thompson Lane - east side of the PS parking lot).

All the more revealing (and frustrating): right at the 35 second mark in the video, just before they turn, the distinctly shaped Krispy Kreme sign can be seen in the background, center-left. However, a big white moving van is parked right there on Grandview Ave., waiting to turn onto Thompson, blocking the view of most of the KK property. Most of the property, but not all. You can see the back-half of the old KK building....

January 1984.jpg

Same view, zoomed in, the Krispy Kreme sign and the old Krispy Kreme building boxed in red....

January 1984 (zoom).jpg
 
ellroy1958, you sure have done some fine researching! Just wanting to thank you for it!
 
I second that. It is so helpful to have the information from the hometown newspapers and the photographs.

Big thumbs up to Ellroy. :thumb:
 
Backwoods, Bessie - thank you so much for the kind words, they are very much appreciated!
 
The links to the articles don't work. How long was it from when she was last seen to when she was found?
 
Hello ScarlettScarpetta, Kathy went missing on the evening of November 29th, 1969; she was found a few minutes after noon on Dec. 2nd.
 
Intersection of Joyner at Nolensville, the grocery store parking lot where Kathy was reportedly last seen (photos 1951 and (circa) 2014).
Thank you, Bessie, for posting the link the other day to those historical aerial views....
Joynder at Nolensville, 1951-2014.jpg
 
Hello December, thank you for all your posts here, they are much appreciated. Per your post #60, I've taken another look at the aerial photograph from 1969 (post #51), and made a new zoomed-in copy to try and ID the buildings in that pic relative to a more contemporary satellite images from bing.com and google. I think the roller rink was ID'd right, but now I'm wondering if the photo ID'd a vacant lot on Grandview, but a different vacant lot, one block to the north. The blue rectangle is the Furniture Warehouse building....
Thompson Lane, 1969b.jpgBing 01.jpgGoogle (comparison).jpg

Also, in looking again at the old aerial view photo, I caught I mistake I made in post #64 (the 1969 alleyway photo at night). Even if the old alley photo does show the back of 2801 Nolensville Pike, the building to the immediate left in the photo couldn't have been 2802 Grandview as that building was apparently built around 1994.....
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18595047/2802-Grandview-Avenue-Nashville-TN/
 
I've started a non-discussion reference thread to keep all of the information together in one spot. There might be some repetition. That happens sometimes when trying to lump information together after the fact. It would take forever to compare each posts. I tried to quickly snag posts that state facts and links with little or no personal commentary.

Continue to post here, and I will copy posts as needed.

Thanks.

TN - Kathy Jones *Media, Maps, Timelines, & Photos **NO DISCUSSION**
 

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