Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #12

[Deleted member 155000]

I would think most in the town/school already know who is withholding information.. They knew who took her to Shoneys... its not a secret to those around there... just to us 'foreigners'. I think the secretness stems from Social media/press. But since (i'm assuming) many already know the names, i'm surprised it hasn't 'slipped' in the media yet.
So, protect WHICH child, at this point? Protect the one that has the info, or the one that may be in danger? It is a double edged sword.

Except one of the children has been abducted and taken out of state with someone in possession of two guns and the other one is still around and sleeping safely in her bed in her house. So it seems obvious to me which one needs protecting.


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[Mom24]

"certain issues have arised"...shouldn't the only "issue" be obtaining information regarding her whereabouts?

who's protecting who here.

I know. I'm scratching my head. "certain issues have arised"? And "irreparable harm" What issues? and as someone noted above, I'm sure the townsfolk all know who the people involved are, unless there is a witness that's been more secretive? Perhaps a teacher? Or a friend of the Cummins? Something's driving this and I thought I knew what it was, but the language in the plea is making me scratch my head. That combined with a new car for a witness is really giving me the willies.

 

[RANCH]

And that would be a separate issue, they're answering questions about an abduction. Just like if you see your friend steal something and you don't report it, technically you're guilty of a crime. But when it goes to court, since you didn't do the theft you can't plead the 5th. This case was filed against TC, and again the questions are for the purpose of gaining evidence that could lead to the safe return of a child, not strictly testimony. This is an issue where the finding would be for or against TC.

I don't think it's a separate issue. Do you have a link saying that a person commits a crime if they don't report witnessing a crime to police. I never heard of that before.

It's obvious to me that you're not getting the point I'm trying to make even after I supplied supporting links. Time to agree to disagree about the 5th and move on. JMO

 

[DerrenAnker]

Just a thought, as I don't feel like it's been TOO long since I was a teenager, but I could definitely imagine there being an incredible amount of victim blaming as far as the student population goes. There is no way I, personally, would have understood the power of manipulation and grooming at age 15.

The main thing is that to other high schoolers, Elizabeth is a peer. When I was a teenager, I felt like an adult. In fact, if there is anything teens feel certain of, it's that they believes they are capable of making decisions for themselves. Because of this "grown up" feeling among teens, I think most of Elizabeth's fellow students do not see the imbalance of a 50 year old vs 15 year old. They just see another peer, a girl that they think is capable of making her own decisions, and come to their own conclusions via the intense HS gossip that goes on.

Of course, in retrospect, adults can see that a 15 year old is in many ways basically a child. But other students can't see this because they see themselves as adults--at least when it comes to their own personal freedom and their right to make decisions for themselves.

 

[MsMtOlympus]

Ok, time for me to take an extended coffee-break and refresh. End of my rope today with the whole situation. See you guys on the flipside.

 

[debirlfan]

"Speaking to ABC News, Thomas’ attorney, Jason Whatley, said that the unnamed witnesses may be withholding information because they are intimated."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sks-court-depose-witnesses.html#ixzz4dsGZrAML
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I think they meant to write "intimidated", but by who? Who do they think the witnesses may have been intimidated by? And what may that have to do with an uncooperative witness receiving a new car?

Maybe we're looking at this backwards. Maybe it's the parents who want their kid to keep her mouth shut, and bribed her with a new car? Wonder if the parents might be friends with TC?

 

[1&2&3]

I would think most in the town/school already know who is withholding information.. They knew who took her to Shoneys... its not a secret to those around there... just to us 'foreigners'. I think the secretness stems from Social media/press. But since (i'm assuming) many already know the names, i'm surprised it hasn't 'slipped' in the media yet.
So, protect WHICH child, at this point? Protect the one that has the info, or the one that may be in danger? It is a double edged sword.

You beat me to it by saying that the names are already known as to who they are wanting to depose. In fact, I would imagine these students are getting hassled at school already. It is just a matter of time until it is public knowledge, someone will tell it.

Something is going on behind the scene that apparently the Thomas family or even LE hasn't gotten wind of. IMO. It seems like there is a group that has banded together in support of TC and it has taken over the city! IMO.

Why is there no outrage from the citizens that a teacher kidnapped a student? How can an entire city back this teacher? Yes, I have read the posts of what ET's sister said people were saying and calling ET. I believe her.

But come on, a 15 year old having the power to convince a 50 year old married Christian man with an outstanding reputation to give up everything he has worked for, commit a crime with many charges, and runaway with her? There is no way ET was the one who started this "relationship" or came up with these ideas herself. TC is to blame from his first cheery Hi.

This is a weird city where people do not have the welfare of a missing child as its upmost concern!

My opinions only.

 

[annamolly]

If the "witness" is assisting Tad and Elizabeth and the car was sold to possibly hide evidence couldn't police trail the witness? Legally how far can police go if they just have a suspicion? I am sure police are working hard at this, but to me it is becoming more and more clear 1 person could probably resolve this and I just wonder why LE doesn't have more.
Also, if ET doesn't want to return home for whatever reason(fear of mom getting custody back, angry w dad, teen angst) I wish these witnesses would understand ET living w a creepy perverted old man is not a better alternative. This situation is only further damaging her esteem and mental health. If my kid knew something they would be talking. This case is maddening, and how anyone can defend Tad or even suggest he could be a better option for ET is beyond me. If, and not suggesting it is, but if her home life was still terrible they have other options for her that don't involve needing to give up her life to be on the run with that creep.

 

[1&2&3]

For our legal people:
Why would the judge deny the motion to depose the named people? What may have been some of his reasons?

In the many missing persons cases we see on here, it is always said "someone knows something". In this case, some ones DO know something, but they won't talk. Such a shame!

 

[white rabbit]

hm debirlfan. good point. maybe the parents are bff's with JC?

I still don't see where there is an imminent "threat" or the witness(es) are in any 'danger'. TC supporters aren't charging down main street with pitchforks or we certainly would've heard by now.

perhaps the witness(es) come from abusive homes and disclosed to LE that their parent(s) would actually harm them if they spoke up. ??? stretching here but...something's definitely awry. and I question the judge's judgement as well.

 

[debirlfan]

Maybe we're looking at this backwards. Maybe it's the parents who want their kid to keep her mouth shut, and bribed her with a new car? Wonder if the parents might be friends with TC?

Hate to reply to myself, but...

The friend that gave her the ride might be intimidated by their parents - because the parents were involved. Think about it - it would make sense why the story kept changing, if the kid is being told what to say. I'm very curious whether the parents might have a vacation home/RV/other second residence that's not in use - or even an additional vehicle that nobody has seen for awhile.

 

[4SAM]

Hate to reply to myself, but...

The friend that gave her the ride might be intimidated by their parents - because the parents were involved. Think about it - it would make sense why the story kept changing, if the kid is being told what to say. I'm very curious whether the parents might have a vacation home/RV/other second residence that's not in use - or even an additional vehicle that nobody has seen for awhile.

GOOD POINT...never looked at it that way. Second home/vacation spot. AWESOME

 

[Mom24]

I don't think it's a separate issue. Do you have a link saying that a person commits a crime if they don't report witnessing a crime to police. I never heard of that before.

It's obvious to me that you're not getting the point I'm trying to make even after I supplied supporting links. Time to agree to disagree about the 5th and move on. JMO

It's called abetting and accomplice liability, Penal code 31. Here's more about Pleading the 5th.

Can Any Witness Plead the Fifth?
At a criminal trial, it is not only the defendant who enjoys the Fifth Amendment right not to testify. Witnesses who are called to the witness stand can refuse to answer certain questions if answering would implicate them in any type of criminal activity (not limited to the case being tried). Witnesses (as well as defendants) in organized crime trials often plead the Fifth, for instance.

But unlike defendants, witnesses who assert this right may do so selectively and do not waive their rights the moment they begin answering questions. Also, unlike defendants, witnesses may be forced by law to testify (typically by subpoena).
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/fifth-amendment-right-against-self-incrimination.html

So yes, they can plead the 5th, but they can be still be held in contempt in this situation given that the proceeding is to gather evidence, not as testimony and the defendant in this case is TC for the crime of kidnapping. If the family should succeed in this issue and be granted the ability to depose the witnesses for the purpose of gathering evidence that could lead to the safe return of this child, the witnesses can plead the 5th and be held in contempt of court. In order for the 5th amendment to be used in any case it must meet two criteria and pleading the 5th in this case just doesn't meet the criteria. Besides, they can just offer immunity to anyone who feels they could be convicted of another crime based on the testimony they give. Pleading the 5th also requires a judge to determine whether to allow the privilege of the 5th, and witnesses are held to a different standard than defendants. There has to be a reasonable cause for criminal liability if the witness answers a specific question, and they have to make that assertion on every question answered. It's a gamble to do it because failure to answer questions results in contempt of court. In this case, if we rely on what we know about one of the witnesses, she dropped ET off and went to work. Unless she also kidnapped ET there's not a whole lot she claim would incriminate her. We can at least agree that these witnesses should come forward of their own volition, even if only on an ethical level.

 

[1&2&3]

Can the parents of the girl who dropped ET off be charged wirh obstructing justice by not allowing their daughter to tell LE what she knows?

Since she is under 18, don't her parents have to give permission for her to talk?

 

[Mom24]

For our legal people:
Why would the judge deny the motion to depose the named people? What may have been some of his reasons?

In the many missing persons cases we see on here, it is always said "someone knows something". In this case, some ones DO know something, but they won't talk. Such a shame!

It was a procedural thing. They have to do a public notice because TC can't be served. My guess is they thought putting it out there in the news would qualify as a public notice, apparently it didn't. So they have to put out an official public notice, wait 20 days and then file again.

 

[misslu]

I was popping in for updates. Sad, and honestly worrisome, to see nothing new.

A few comments on things I've read throughout the last couple days - help from another party - seems very likely at this point right? I could see a lie/spin on their relationship used as a plea to get some help. He could very well be playing them up to be damsel in distress/hero to anyone.

3 trips from car to house on the morning she left - it's embarrassing to admit that I do this. I suffer from anxiety and one way I manage it is checking things off my list. So if I'm packing for a trip, I can not "check something off my list" until it's 100% done. So alot of times that means I pack the items in a bag AND put it where it needs to go (ie car) before moving onto the next bag. Anyhow, long post to say maybe anxiety played a part. Or also likely, maybe she was worried someone would see her carrying several bags at once and wanted to do it more discreetly.

Sure wish we'd have some good news soon. I worry about the state of both of their minds and emotions. Jmo.

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[Mom24]

hm debirlfan. good point. maybe the parents are bff's with JC?

I still don't see where there is an imminent "threat" or the witness(es) are in any 'danger'. TC supporters aren't charging down main street with pitchforks or we certainly would've heard by now.

perhaps the witness(es) come from abusive homes and disclosed to LE that their parent(s) would actually harm them if they spoke up. ??? stretching here but...something's definitely awry. and I question the judge's judgement as well.

And we're only assuming that the witnesses are children. It could be that someone has been threatened by TC himself.

 

[debirlfan]

3 trips from car to house on the morning she left - it's embarrassing to admit that I do this. I suffer from anxiety and one way I manage it is checking things off my list. So if I'm packing for a trip, I can not "check something off my list" until it's 100% done. So alot of times that means I pack the items in a bag AND put it where it needs to go (ie car) before moving onto the next bag. Anyhow, long post to say maybe anxiety played a part. Or also likely, maybe she was worried someone would see her carrying several bags at once and wanted to do it more discreetly.

How sure are they that that's all she took? If this was planned ahead, she could have left clothes at a friend's house or in their car days before, so as not to be seen walking out with a suitcase. Since she apparently took warm weather things, it might be worthwhile to check "packed away" winter clothes to see if items are missing.

 

[4SAM]

Ok, lets look at grocery run. LE has never shared what exactly was purchased, but if any of the items needed to stay cool, wouldn't they need either an ice chest with access to daily or every other day ice. Or does this mean that they are staying inside somewhere that the items are stored properly?

 

[Kakidoll]

You beat me to it by saying that the names are already known as to who they are wanting to depose. In fact, I would imagine these students are getting hassled at school already. It is just a matter of time until it is public knowledge, someone will tell it.

Something is going on behind the scene that apparently the Thomas family or even LE hasn't gotten wind of. IMO. It seems like there is a group that has banded together in support of TC and it has taken over the city! IMO.

Why is there no outrage from the citizens that a teacher kidnapped a student? How can an entire city back this teacher? Yes, I have read the posts of what ET's sister said people were saying and calling ET. I believe her.

But come on, a 15 year old having the power to convince a 50 year old married Christian man with an outstanding reputation to give up everything he has worked for, commit a crime with many charges, and runaway with her? There is no way ET was the one who started this "relationship" or came up with these ideas herself. TC is to blame from his first cheery Hi.

This is a weird city where people do not have the welfare of a missing child as its upmost concern!

My opinions only.

I'm hesitant to stay certain things on here for possibility of upsetting family...and I REALLY have a hard time censoring myself when someone is missing that should be found.......... but yes, there is something very strange going on in the background of this town. I have questions I'd like answers to, but without offending some, can't ask. I feel like we are just going in circles at this point without more info... and I believe some of that info is out there and can be answered. I too, will step away for a breather to decide how to proceed in good conscience. Its a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario IMO.