Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #12

[MsMtOlympus]

I cannot speak to the popularity of paper plates in Oklahoma, but I do think we need to be looking for the vehicle rather than focusing on the plate number. There are a number of ways he could have changed the plate. Think about it. Why would you ditch a perfectly good late model vehicle when all you need to do is alter/cover/replace the plate?

In terms of Oklahoma City, what I am saying is what if that was their intended destination and what if their plan was to settle in a large city and blend into the city? It doesn't have to be OK City and if they know that they were spotted there, they would probably have changed their plans. What about Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston, Austin, Lubbock, some large-ish city in Texas?

I'm starting to wonder about this possibility myself. Although the complete opposite of an off-the-grid lifestyle, it's actually not hard to get lost in the shuffle in a mid to large size city (like the overpopulated one I live in). It's possible that with fake ID's and deeper disguise methods that they could pull this off.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I definitely think you're on the right track to look at remote areas in the west (or secondly, in any rural part of the country).

 

[KaaBoom]

I cannot speak to the popularity of paper plates in Oklahoma, but I do think we need to be looking for the vehicle rather than focusing on the plate number. There are a number of ways he could have changed the plate. Think about it. Why would you ditch a perfectly good late model vehicle when all you need to do is alter/cover/replace the plate?

In terms of Oklahoma City, what I am saying is what if that was their intended destination and what if their plan was to settle in a large city and blend into the city? It doesn't have to be OK City and if they know that they were spotted there, they would probably have changed their plans. What about Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston, Austin, Lubbock, some large-ish city in Texas?

Changing a license plate is not that easy. If it was, every fugitive would do it. The easiest way to defeat an ALPR would be to just cover the plate up. But that would attract the visual attention of LEOs. Either way it would be easy to avoid being recognized for a day or two. But every additional day, would increase the chances of being spotted. I think it is highly unlikely they are just traveling around, or settling down in a large city. If they were they would have been caught by now.

 

[KKearns]

It is very hard to settle in some large city without the use of ID.

Now if they have someone to stay with that will take care of them at least for a good while, the chances to do that become higher. Even a sanctuary city won't have help them. I don't even think they can pass for illegal immigrants from Europe.

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[Kapua]

Changing a license plate is not that easy. If it was, every fugitive would do it. The easiest way to defeat an ALPR would be to just cover the plate up. But that would attract the visual attention of LEOs. Either way it would be easy to avoid being recognized for a day or two. But every additional day, would increase the chances of being spotted. I think it is highly unlikely they are just traveling around, or settling down in a large city. If they were they would have been caught by now.

I drove around with a paper plate on my current vehicle for several months due to an issue with the dealer not giving me the sticker for the current year.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Changing a license plate is not that easy. If it was, every fugitive would do it. The easiest way to defeat an ALPR would be to just cover the plate up. But that would attract the visual attention of LEOs. Either way it would be easy to avoid being recognized for a day or two. But every additional day, would increase the chances of being spotted. I think it is highly unlikely they are just traveling around, or settling down in a large city. If they were they would have been caught by now.

But switching a license plate with another car's is super easy.


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[Deleted member 155000]

It is very hard to settle in some large city without the use of ID.

Now if they have someone to stay with that will take care of them at least for a good while, the chances to do that become higher. Even a sanctuary city won't have help them. I don't even think they can pass for illegal immigrants from Europe.

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I know someone who lives off the grid in a major U.S. city. He pays cash for rent which includes utilities, pre pays for data on a smart phone, and works under the table. He doesn't have any advanced degrees or skills or anything. He just has extreme views about personal freedom and doesn't feel the government needs his info. He makes a comfortable middle class living this way.


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[KaaBoom]

Again, I live in AL. I told you how it is in the largest county in the state.

Also again, if they are so prevalent in every step, every mile.. How did they make it to OKC and not get one scan?

As I have already posted, my theory is that they were scanned, probably at the toll plazas. That would have tipped LE off that they were in the area, and to check the Walmart security video. Something must have tipped LE, to check that video, and I don't know what else it could have been.

But if I'm wrong and they weren't scanned, then they were just lucky. Avoiding being spotted for a day or two is not that remarkable. But every additional day, the odds of them being spotted would increase. I doubt that they could have been driving around all this time and not getting caught. I expect that they arrived at their destination within a few days and have been hunkered down since. They probably didn't take a straight route to that destination.

 

[KKearns]

I know someone who lives off the grid in a major U.S. city. He pays cash for rent which includes utilities, pre pays for data on a smart phone, and works under the table. He doesn't have any advanced degrees or skills or anything. He just has extreme views about personal freedom and doesn't feel the government needs his info. He makes a comfortable middle class living this way.


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How did he rent and get a job with no ID or credit check?

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[KKearns]

As I have already posted, my theory is that they were scanned, probably at the toll plazas. That would have tipped LE off that they were in the area, and to check the Walmart security video. Something must have tipped LE, to check that video, and I don't know what else it could have been.

But if I'm wrong and they weren't scanned, then they were just lucky. Avoiding being spotted for a day or two is not that remarkable. But every additional day, the odds of them being spotted would increase. I doubt that they could have been driving around all this time and not getting caught. I expect that they arrived at their destination within a few days and have been hunkered down since. They probably didn't take a straight route to that destination.

They could have been scanned at a toll booth in OKC if they have toll roads here.

I was never addressing anything about the OKC sighting. The entire time I have been addressing the first post you said about not driving without getting scanned.

You can actually do that, you can drive a lot of roads that are old back roads and roads that aren't toll roads. It takes longer, but you can do that for quite a bit of the US.

If they were scanned in OKC, seems them that they would know they were sill in the Nissan.

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[Kapua]

As I have already posted, my theory is that they were scanned, probably at the toll plazas. That would have tipped LE off that they were in the area, and to check the Walmart security video. Something must have tipped LE, to check that video, and I don't know what else it could have been.

But if I'm wrong and they weren't scanned, then they were just lucky. Avoiding being spotted for a day or two is not that remarkable. But every additional day, the odds of them being spotted would increase. I doubt that they could have been driving around all this time and not getting caught. I expect that they arrived at their destination within a few days and have been hunkered down since. They probably didn't take a straight route to that destination.

I totally agree that something tipped LE off to check that OK City Walmart. There are 7 Walmarts in OK City and one in Mustang, OK. What do you suppose prompted them to check that particular one? It could have been a scan - or a tip from an eyewitness.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

How did he rent and get a job with no ID or credit check?

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There are plenty of landlords and businesses who also want to profit from not having to claim income etc on the books. I have known him since childhood and have seen him find several different "under the table" apartments and jobs since moving there in his early 20's.

He doesn't own a car and rides public transportation or bikes/walks around the city.


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[KaaBoom]

I drove around with a paper plate on my current vehicle for several months due to an issue with the dealer not giving me the sticker for the current year.

The system in California was a joke, but that is no longer possible. I believe in most states the car owner is required to put their own plates on a car as soon as they buy it, or the dealership will issue the plates. That's why I asked if paper plates were common in Oklahoma.

New law will require temporary license plates in California

Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation Monday requiring that newly purchased vehicles in California display temporary license plates, approving the bill despite objections from social justice activists who say it will lead to more fines and economic hardships for poor people.

The bill aimed to stop toll-road cheats and ensure law enforcement officers can identify vehicles on the road. California currently requires only a small notice of sale, which can't be read or photographed from a distance, to be displayed on a vehicle while the owner is waiting for permanent plates.

New law will require temporary license plates in California

 

[Yenyen3]

No you don't get to be allowed to commit a crime by threatening to not come home.

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I don't agree. We live in a nation where we have freedom. A nation ran by laws. But if I had a daughter and someone gave me 2 options:

1. Have my daughter back, at the expense of Todd being able to be free, and my daughter no longer see him.

2. Never see my daughter again or even know where she is or if she is safe.

I'm going to be taking option 2 any day and 10 out of 10 times you asked me. Sorry, it may sound cold hearted and like I'm putting family ahead of country but maybe that's just how I was raised.

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[KaaBoom]

But switching a license plate with another car's is super easy.

1. Finding a currently registered license plate is not super easy. 2. It wouldn't match the vehicle records. 3. LEOs can still verify the VIN number through the window, especially if they are suspicious.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

1. Finding a currently registered license plate is not super easy. 2. It wouldn't match the vehicle records. 3. LEOs can still verify the VIN number through the window, especially if they are suspicious.

Well of course, yes, I agree.

But anything and everything he does depends on him not drawing suspicion to himself. Even if he somehow gets a new, legal vehicle on the books using a fake ID, he has to be careful not to speed, not to get arrested for disorderly conduct or pulled over for a headlight being out.

But if your goal is to get out of town fast, switching license plates and not drawing attention to yourself until you're two days of travel away? Seems like a low risk scenario in my book...especially if you get a jump on the AA.

My husband and I recently traveled from MI to FL and back and we saw only one or two police the whole way and they were never behind us or even on the road. They were sitting way off to the side with their radar guns.


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[KaaBoom]

They could have been scanned at a toll booth in OKC if they have toll roads here.

I was never addressing anything about the OKC sighting. The entire time I have been addressing the first post you said about not driving without getting scanned.

You can actually do that, you can drive a lot of roads that are old back roads and roads that aren't toll roads. It takes longer, but you can do that for quite a bit of the US.

If they were scanned in OKC, seems them that they would know they were sill in the Nissan.

True there is very little LE on back roads, but even staying on back roads eventually they would run into a cop. Back roads are not continuous. To travel any distance eventually you have to travel on a main road.

 

[prallypie]

Just an aside. I am relatively positive there are NO plate readers anywhere in my state.

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[KaaBoom]

I totally agree that something tipped LE off to check that OK City Walmart. There are 7 Walmarts in OK City and one in Mustang, OK. What do you suppose prompted them to check that particular one? It could have been a scan - or a tip from an eyewitness.

They may have asked all of the Walmarts in the area to check their video, or maybe just the one closest to the toll booth they last passed through.

 

[Kapua]

Well of course, yes, I agree.

But anything and everything he does depends on him not drawing suspicion to himself. Even if he somehow gets a new, legal vehicle on the books using a fake ID, he has to be careful not to speed, not to get arrested for disorderly conduct or pulled over for a headlight being out.

But if your goal is to get out of town fast, switching license plates and not drawing attention to yourself until you're two days of travel away? Seems like a low risk scenario in my book...especially if you get a jump on the AA.

My husband and I recently traveled from MI to FL and back and we saw only one or two police the whole way and they were never behind us or even on the road. They were sitting way off to the side with their radar guns.


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I have been paying attention to how many police officers I encounter when driving. Rarely is one directly behind me. There are a couple of places where they routinely hang out and radar gun cars going by. Now I wonder if they are also scanning plates... Also, we have a lot of motorcycle officers here, is that common in the south?