Found Safe TN - MCET, 15, Abducted by Teacher, in Maury County, 13 March 2017 #16 *ARREST*

[Safeguard]

They can say it until they are blue in the face. According to Federal law, it doesn't matter.

Be that as it may, the defence is introducing it for some reason.

 

[Irishboy]

I don't know how the defence is going to try and get away with 'not coerced' bit. 15 vs 50 = coerced imo. Everytime.

I do think her sm acounts speak to the fact that she believed that she was running off to be in a relationship with TC. and I don't think she thought it would be platonic. She changed her status to wife, for example. There is also the single bed hotel stays and witnesses that attest that they behaved as newlyweds.

I am not saying it's right, or justifying this crime, but there is evidence that she left to be in a relationship with Tad. This is what the defence is likely going to put out there and it will be up to the prosecution to show the extent of the grooming and manipulation in order to show that ET could not have understood the consequences, danger and ultimate futility of believing in a psychopath.

Well said,
TC's first comments according to the sister, is that she was going to run away anyway and hew was only going to "keep her safe", so no planned relationship?
The conflicting statements and observations have been going on and will in the future IMO

 

[gitana1]

This is wise. We all want to hear that ET is progressing in her recovery, but the family needs to get back into their routine and the media needs to leave them alone for a long while, as they did with Jaycee Dugard.

TC's sister should also stop offering interviews. She never should have given the one posted yesterday. I know the media can be relentless; this is why you either issue a short, carefully worded statement ending with "I will have no further comment" or say absolutely nothing.

Or hire someone to make statement on their behalf.

 

[Gardenista]

Be that as it may, the defence is introducing it for some reason.

What else can he say? The law is the law.

 

[blue22]

Be that as it may, the defence is introducing it for some reason.

Victim blaming is one of the oldest stories in the book, when it comes to sex crimes. They've got nothing else, so they are going with the low blow to the victim.

IMO, TC either outright or passively blamed ET while he had her on the run. Again IMO, it's a way for him to manipulate her from afar.

 

[gitana1]

I don't know how the defence is going to try and get away with 'not coerced' bit. 15 vs 50 = coerced imo. Everytime.

I do think her sm acounts speak to the fact that she believed that she was running off to be in a relationship with TC. and I don't think she thought it would be platonic. She changed her status to wife, for example. There is also the single bed hotel stays and witnesses that attest that they behaved as newlyweds.

I am not saying it's right, or justifying this crime, but there is evidence that she left to be in a relationship with Tad. This is what the defence is likely going to put out there and it will be up to the prosecution to show the extent of the grooming and manipulation in order to show that ET could not have understood the consequences, danger and ultimate futility of believing in a psychopath.

So how do we explain the reports that she often hid from him in the weeks/days leading up to this? Or that she told her sister to call the police if she wasn't back by 6? Or that he told her she would be in trouble if she didn't go out to lunch with him?

A couple thoughts:
1. The line between fantasy and reality can often be blurred for kids this age. More so the less mature they are.
2. She seemed to have been super conflicted- enjoying the attention and reciprocating so it would continue, but feeling scared about the entire thing when it go too "real".
3. She may have had fun playing the role and playing the fantasy out. But she may never have really believed it would become reality. I remember being that age and having feelings like that.
4. She may have felt compelled to go with him in order not to lose his affection but also because he threatened her with punishment. However, she seemed unprepared for the possibility that this was going to be longer than a day and scared that it might.
5. How she behaved during the abduction probably has much more to do with trying to survive having been cut off from the world and her family and friends and the internet, by an armed and delusional predator.

 

[Safeguard]

Well said,
TC's first comments according to the sister, is that she was going to run away anyway and hew was only going to "keep her safe", so no planned relationship?
The conflicting statements and observations have been going on and will in the future IMO

Imo the "keeping her safe" line is preposterous! That will be blown away by the prosecution easily. He harmed her and many others to his selfish end.

He might as well have gone with the " Twinkie defense"! ( or maybe the "Flower defense!).

 

[KaaBoom]

It kind of amazes me that people were willing to give them a place to stay, a man that says that et was his wife when in LE words she looked more like 12 instead of 15 with a 50 year old man! I would call the police the first chance I got. Wouldn't matter if I recognized them from a missing persons case or not. Boggles my mind that the man gave them $40 and gave them directions to the commune with out calling LE....JMO

So if you saw a man and a young girl on the streets with no money, you would let them starve to death, rather than helping them? :thinking:

I haven't heard many people say that ET looks like 12 years old. Her pictures certainly don't substantiate that opinion. Most of the witnesses I have heard said she didn't look 23. I think everybody can agree with that. But that's a long way from thinking she looks 12.

 

[blue22]

So how do we explain the reports that she often hid from him in the weeks/days leading up to this? Or that she told her sister to call the police if she wasn't back by 6? Or that he told her she would be in trouble if she didn't go out to lunch with him?

A couple thoughts:
1. The line between fantasy and reality can often be blurred for kids this age. More so the less mature they are.
2. She seemed to have been super conflicted- enjoying the attention and reciprocating so it would continue, but feeling bad about the entire thing when it go too "real".
3. She may have had fun playing the role and playing the fantasy out. But she may never have really believe it would become reality. I ember being that as and having feelings like that.
4. She may have felt compelled to go with him in order not to lose his affection but also because he threatened her with punishment. However, she seemed unprepared for the possibility that this was going to be longer than a day and scared that it might.
5. However she behaved during the abduction probably has much more to do with trying to survive having been cut off from
the world and her family and friends and the internet, by an armed and delusional predator.

bbm.

You hit on something really important here. This is something most victims of abuse experience. They are desperate for morsels of love and affection. They are "taught" that no one else can love them correctly but the abuser. It's especially pervasive in sexual abuse against children. There is so much self loathing wrapped up in experiencing child/minor abuse. They want and crave the attention from the abuser, but it doesn't feel right or good, but at the same time it does. They believe this is the only person who can love them and save them. Losing that is terrifying.

I loved my abuser. At one point, I was obsessed with losing him. I think I'd have done anything to keep them. I believed no one else would or could love me. I craved the attention and affection. It also felt horrible and I hated myself. That made me need him more. It was pure hell.

ETA: I want to add, you better believe I blamed the whole thing on myself. And I would have secretly jumped at the chance to see him again, for some time even after charges and stopped contact. But I can tell you, I was NOT willing in all of it. It's very complicated psychologically.

 

[gitana1]

Be that as it may, the defence is introducing it for some reason.

Can I just say I love the phrase "be that as it may?" One of my brothers uses it after I insult him (we banter back and forth) and then follows it with a terrible insult back at me!!

 

[Safeguard]

Can I just say I love the phrase "be that as it may?" One of my brothers uses it after I insult him (we banter back and forth) and then follows it with a terrible insult back at me!!

Ha! My 12 year old daughter and I do the same! We also use, "I beg your pardon?" a lot! heh...

 

[gitana1]

bbm.

You hit on something really important here. This is something most victims of abuse experience. They are desperate for morsels of love and affection. They are "taught" that no one else can love them correctly but the abuser. It's especially pervasive in sexual abuse against children. There is so much self loathing wrapped up in experiencing child/minor abuse. They want and crave the attention from the abuser, but it doesn't feel right or good, but at the same time it does. They believe this is the only person who can love them and save them. Losing that is terrifying.

I loved my abuser. At one point, I was obsessed with losing him. I think I'd have done anything to keep them. I believed no one else would or could love me. I craved the attention and affection. It also felt horrible and I hated myself. That made me need him more. It was pure hell.

ETA: I want to add, you better believe I blamed the whole thing on myself. And I would have secretly jumped at the chance to see him again, for some time even after charges and stopped contact. But I can tell you, I was NOT willing in all of it. It's very complicated psychologically.

Wow. Thanks for sharing. That brought me to tears, frankly. You really
illustrated the horrible position an abused kid has- the dependency and the fear.

Glad you survived.

 

[BIC]

Be that as it may, the defence is introducing it for some reason.

It's pretty clear that the federal laws prohibit a 15 year old to run off with a 50 year old no matter if it was "willingly" or not, the TN law however is a bit more blurry, so that might be a defense to at least try to fight the state charges, although while a 15 year old in TN might be able to choose to go away alone, going with a 50 year old, who is her teacher is probably a whole other story. IMO

 

[Kapua]

I don't know how the defence is going to try and get away with 'not coerced' bit. 15 vs 50 = coerced imo. Everytime.

I do think her sm acounts speak to the fact that she believed that she was running off to be in a relationship with TC. and I don't think she thought it would be platonic. She changed her status to wife, for example. There is also the single bed hotel stays and witnesses that attest that they behaved as newlyweds.

I am not saying it's right, or justifying this crime, but there is evidence that she left to be in a relationship with Tad. This is what the defence is likely going to put out there and it will be up to the prosecution to show the extent of the grooming and manipulation in order to show that ET could not have understood the consequences, danger and ultimate futility of believing in a psychopath.

He's in jail. :jail: She is not. He's an adult and 100% responsible for his actions. She is a minor, a sheltered and abused minor, who got in over her head. The law exists to protect children.

The defense is not going to prevail under these circumstances, given the evidence. There are no mitigating circumstances. The law is the law. Now if an 18-21 year old male ran away with a mature-looking 16-year-old girl with a bad home life, she lied about her age, and he didn't take away her phone, or cross state lines, we could talk about young lovers and how the state should maybe be a little lenient. Not here. He took her from her family, crossed 8 state lines, denied her access to her cell phone and most contact with the outside world for 5 weeks, sexually abused her from the first (or second) day, and clearly was not feeding her adequately because he caused her to lose weight. Now she is in a mental health facility due to the trauma he has caused her over the past weeks. Ugh. It hurts me just to type this. There is no defense for his actions that will hold up in a court of law.

IMHO

:cow:

 

[Kapua]

bbm.

You hit on something really important here. This is something most victims of abuse experience. They are desperate for morsels of love and affection. They are "taught" that no one else can love them correctly but the abuser. It's especially pervasive in sexual abuse against children. There is so much self loathing wrapped up in experiencing child/minor abuse. They want and crave the attention from the abuser, but it doesn't feel right or good, but at the same time it does. They believe this is the only person who can love them and save them. Losing that is terrifying.

I loved my abuser. At one point, I was obsessed with losing him. I think I'd have done anything to keep them. I believed no one else would or could love me. I craved the attention and affection. It also felt horrible and I hated myself. That made me need him more. It was pure hell.

ETA: I want to add, you better believe I blamed the whole thing on myself. And I would have secretly jumped at the chance to see him again, for some time even after charges and stopped contact. But I can tell you, I was NOT willing in all of it. It's very complicated psychologically.

Thank you for sharing that. I think that ET is experiencing those same conflicted feelings. I'm sorry that both of you had to lose part of your lives to abuse.

 

[Safeguard]

It's pretty clear that the federal laws prohibit a 15 year old to run off with a 50 year old no matter if it was "willingly" or not, the TN law however is a bit more blurry, so that might be a defense to at least try to fight the state charges, although while a 15 year old in TN might be able to choose to go away alone, going with a 50 year old, who is her teacher is probably a whole other story. IMO

Yes! And in trying to examine what we are up against here, I am looking at anything and everything... The fear I have is that TC may be shown undo leniency in what, imo, is still a very patriarchal system! (I am all for tempering justice with mercy, but I fear TC may get more leniency than he deserves in this case!)

My hope is that the prosecution will heavily stress premeditation, months, years even! , by TC as there is some evidence that he attempted to groom other girls, and he most likely had this in mind for a long, long time. He chose ET not because she needed a "savior" (pfffttt!) but because she was vulnerable and he spotted that.... like a lion spots a limp. moo

 

[dianaelaine59]

The $10,000 reward money will be presented Friday to Griffin Barry. He'll receive the reward at the Columbia, Tenn. law office of S. Jason Whatley, the Tennessee attorney who represents the family of ET.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ities-elizabeth-thomas-awarded-10k/100877622/

Barry’s reward money was put forth by Cummins’ former coworker Chandler Anderson. “We are thrilled to write this check,” Anderson told the station.
http://people.com/crime/elizabeth-thomas-found-tip-griffin-barry-reward-money/

Yay!!!!


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[EllieBee]

So how do we explain the reports that she often hid from him in the weeks/days leading up to this? Or that she told her sister to call the police if she wasn't back by 6? Or that he told her she would be in trouble if she didn't go out to lunch with him?

A couple thoughts:
1. The line between fantasy and reality can often be blurred for kids this age. More so the less mature they are.
2. She seemed to have been super conflicted- enjoying the attention and reciprocating so it would continue, but feeling scared about the entire thing when it go too "real".
3. She may have had fun playing the role and playing the fantasy out. But she may never have really believed it would become reality. I remember being that age and having feelings like that.
4. She may have felt compelled to go with him in order not to lose his affection but also because he threatened her with punishment. However, she seemed unprepared for the possibility that this was going to be longer than a day and scared that it might.
5. How she behaved during the abduction probably has much more to do with trying to survive having been cut off from the world and her family and friends and the internet, by an armed and delusional predator.

I wonder if something happened just prior to the abduction to sort of "push her off the fence?" and shed some of her conflict.

I hope not, but what if TC told her lies about her family wanting to be "rid" of her and she thought running away with (gag) this was her only chance for happiness?

Or worse, they had been intimate before and she had reason to think she was pregnant?

My heart breaks for this child.

 

[DatelineFan]

I wonder if something happened just prior to the abduction to sort of "push her off the fence?" and shed some of her conflict.

I hope not, but what if TC told her lies about her family wanting to be "rid" of her and she thought running away with (gag) this was her only chance for happiness?

Or worse, they had been intimate before and she had reason to think she was pregnant?

My heart breaks for this child.

She's 15. I think most 15 year olds can be quite fickle.

I think this might sound snarky, but I promise you it's not!

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[Normancita]

And the commune where Tad took ET was clothing-optional, which he knew from the documentary. He did this knowing about ET's abuse with other men while living with her mother, that had caused her to "cover up" when she dressed, according to her sister Kat. What a monster. He wanted to "save" her. Yeah, right.

Abuse by other men?

This is the first I've heard of this....I'm confused!


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