Found Deceased TN - Noah Chamberlin, 2, Pinson, 14 Jan 2016 - #3

[AmyPond]

This happened recently.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/toddler-running-busy-oregon-highway-caught-dashcam-video/story?id=36447277

It's kind of scary how often I see news stories about children in the 2-3 year old range running off. Thankfully, a lot of the time they end okay so we don't see them here at websleuths. But it's way more common than it should be, unfortunately.

That's why it's important for people to know that ANY child could run off. Even the ones you don't think would....could.

 

[ZhaZhaHa]

I was haunted last night thinking of his poor grandmother, and then of the 4yo who lost her brother. I am gutted. This poor family.

 

[silverkitty]

For those who repeatedly bash statistics used in formulating a search plan, please consider:

1. This is a 2-year-old child who is not dressed appropriately for a new weather system that is moving in quickly.

2. Children, just like older adults, cannot regulate their temperature effectively. They are the first to become cold or hot, far sooner than an adult would. Lost heat = poor thermal imaging.

3. You have no idea of the terrain ahead of you, or even which way he was heading.

There is a REASON for the statistics that guide a search -- they don't cover every case studied, but they represent the outcome of MOST cases studied. And if you don't think people check and adjust and check again, you're just plain wrong.

Dogs save many lives, but not all. By all means, tell the dogs and their handlers you don't need their assistance.

Helicopters locate many missing people, but not all. So, do you not use them? If not could you be the person tell the next family you're tossing the statistics and winging it?

Statistics are a tool like any other. They are based on years of study and experience, and all the times they have aided in the search and/or recovery of the missing that never make it into WS case pages. If it were my child, sorry, BRING THEM ON. Well-intentioned strangers who know they could do better without benefit of existing analysis but all the conviction of their *feelings*... well, the world is full of Sunday morning quarterbacks. Just please, DON'T disparage those who gave a week of their lives, 24 hours a day, and all the knowledge and tools at their disposal -- and yet weren't able to guarantee a better outcome.

 

[Hatfield]

Slightly OT

For my pet dog since I live rural and he would be long gone if he ever got in the nearby woods so when walking him I elect to use a long line leash to always have him tethered. He has plenty of line to run and I always make sure his feet are not tangled when walking out with him. It is a little tough to make sure his feet stays untangled but it works for me and his safety. I also lock the leash at its fullest position so he has plenty of line and doesnt feel the rope on his neck and he thinks he is free to roam.

Even though he is trained pretty well to stay by me I choose the leash method because I have seen what happens when a squirrel or rabbit is spotted. He totally ignores his training and makes a beeline for the rabbit or squirrel. Just something to keep in mind even if a pet is trained to stay. Sometimes other animals will distract them so much that they don't listen.

 

[ninij9]

I wish there was a petition to change SAR protocol for little ones lost in the woods: Turn No One away. As many people that can be utilized, should be.

Create two groups, one group to start sweep search from last known location and move outward, and start 2nd group at least 2 miles out and have them sweep search heading back towards last known sighting. These groups should meet at halfway point, then pass each other and let the opposite group search area already searched by previous group. Because even when they do go outside "expected perimeters" it can be too late like it was for little Noah If It takes 9 days to get go him.

If I still believed in prayers, mine would all be for Grandma right now. I cannot even imagine the depth of her pain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[drjones]

The two MSM sources that were reporting the distance as being 1/2 mile have updated their stories in the last few hours to now say 1 1/2 miles.

So while it is still not a correct quote from the Sheriff at the press conference I will have to assume that there was some later clarification.

Looking back at Steelman's map he mentions that a video of the Sheriff early on says Noah went missing 150 yards or so behind the house, so if correct, that would rule out the source of any confusion being that one person was talking about how far he was found from where he was last seen and another was talking about how far he was from the home.

So it does in fact appear right now that he was found approximately 1 1/2 miles, as the crow flies, from where he was last seen.

Depending on the trails between the two spots he may have traveled much further than that.

 

[Hatfield]

I wish there was a petition to change SAR protocol for little ones lost in the woods: Turn No One away. As many people that can be utilized, should be.

Create two groups, one group to start sweep search from last known location and move outward, and start 2nd group at least 2 miles out and have them sweep search heading back towards last known sighting. These groups should meet at halfway point, then pass each other and let the opposite group search area already searched by previous group. Because even when they do go outside "expected perimeters" it can be too late like it was for little Noah If It takes 9 days to get go him.

If I still believed in prayers, mine would all be for Grandma right now. I cannot even imagine the depth of her pain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I don't know a lot about how searchers are organized but I do like the suggestion of having an outside far away group of searchers that would work back towards the last sighting sounds like a great idea to me.

I have read about quite a few cases where the person ended up being found farther away from where they thought they would have gone.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This happened recently.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/toddler-running-busy-oregon-highway-caught-dashcam-video/story?id=36447277

What the flippin flip, that kid was SO lucky! I bet his mama had a near breakdown when she saw the footage.

 

[juli99]

It is interesting too when you think of the logistics of the outside ring of searchers... that circle would start out huge (thousands of searchers) but would gradually get smaller as they moved inward and the circle shrunk. Some of those people could then be sent to the inside group because it would need to grow as they moved outward. A daunting task I am sure, and terrain/water would interfere. But a human chain 2 miles out gradually moving inward, if at all possible, sure seems to make sense.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I wish there was a petition to change SAR protocol for little ones lost in the woods: Turn No One away. As many people that can be utilized, should be.

Create two groups, one group to start sweep search from last known location and move outward, and start 2nd group at least 2 miles out and have them sweep search heading back towards last known sighting. These groups should meet at halfway point, then pass each other and let the opposite group search area already searched by previous group. Because even when they do go outside "expected perimeters" it can be too late like it was for little Noah If It takes 9 days to get go him.

If I still believed in prayers, mine would all be for Grandma right now. I cannot even imagine the depth of her pain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

But then a kid will be found 2.1 miles out.

I just read on Deorr's thread about Jerold Williams age 5. Found deceased 3.7 miles from where he was last seen (and it's believed he walked double that to get there, and that he probably didn't survive the first night). So I guess the problem is, where do you draw the perimeter line?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-jacob-lake-boy-found-dead-exposure/31473877/

 

[Hatfield]

But then a kid will be found 2.1 miles out.

I just read on Deorr's thread about Jerold Williams age 5. Found deceased 3.7 miles from where he was last seen (and it's believed he walked double that to get there, and that he probably didn't survive the first night). So I guess the problem is, where do you draw the perimeter line?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-jacob-lake-boy-found-dead-exposure/31473877/

Yeah, there is always going to have to be a decision on where a group starts. I guess the important thing is that a group does start and gives it a try.

I know there are many things that come into play like people walking over possible signs and things like that. But I do really like that unique idea of having a group start way on the outside and start working backwards. Of course this would be in addition to the main search parties that started at the source.

I have not heard of this idea before and it sounds like a great plan to me. Because it seems to me that there is no lack of volunteers. Some other cases the volunteers were asked not to help which I find frustrating. Those are the type of people that could have at least started way outside the range and work backwards.

If someone wants to help then by golly there should be a way to utilize everyone wanting to help look.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yeah, there is always going to have to be a decision on where a group starts. I guess the important thing is that a group does start and gives it a try.

I know there are many things that come into play like people walking over possible signs and things like that. But I do really like that unique idea of having a group start way on the outside and start working backwards. Of course this would be in addition to the main search parties that started at the source.

I have not heard of this idea before and it sounds like a great plan to me. Because it seems to me that there is no lack of volunteers. Some other cases the volunteers were asked not to help which I find frustrating. Those are the type of people that could have at least started way outside the range and work backwards.

If someone wants to help then by golly there should be a way to utilize everyone wanting to help look.

:yeahthat:

Absolutely spot on!

 

[angels among us]

I don't know how to share a video except to share the link to it. I ran across this video of a song called Hello, Goodbye. It was written by Michael W. Smith for a family who lost a son named Noah. This is Noah's song...[video]https://youtu.be/VUJmJh0xKUM[/video]

 

[juli99]

But then a kid will be found 2.1 miles out.

I just read on Deorr's thread about Jerold Williams age 5. Found deceased 3.7 miles from where he was last seen (and it's believed he walked double that to get there, and that he probably didn't survive the first night). So I guess the problem is, where do you draw the perimeter line?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-jacob-lake-boy-found-dead-exposure/31473877/

Good point. I imagine that is where the statistics could be brought in... amount of time since disappearance, age of child, type of terrain - how far could they be expected to go.. then add quite a bit. I would think the outside ring moving inward could go fairly quickly once organized because no people would need to be added as they went.

 

[ILOKAL]

That's beautiful Foxfire. And in all my sadness and heartbreak that helped me. Thank you for sharing.

So very lovely, and powerful. Bless you for sharing.

 

[Sillybilly]

FWIW re kids in harnesses .. make sure they are Houdini proof. When my sister was about 3, she briefly went missing and was found at the local lumber yard singing "Buttons & Bows" to the workers. They decided to put a harness on me ... I figured the dang thing out and they found me at the lumber yard ... just checking out the lumber.

On a more serious note, if it helps anyone ... had a drowning experience as a child. No recollection of sinking or an earth angel hauling me off the bottom of that lake. What I do remember was sitting on the bottom of that beautiful lake, peacefully looking way up through the water in wonderment at beautiful sunshine and seeing the blades of grass and whatever floating by. No fear, no pain, no cold ... just a feeling of wonderment.

I'm sure Noah just succumbed to the elements, and I hope by the time he was finished exploring all that wonderment of bugs, butterflies and all sorts of good things, he simply got a bit tired, a bit chilly and lay down for a nap and woke up in a paradise. Hokey or not, I still want to and have to believe there is a 'Great Beyond'.

My wish for Noah :rose: is that you are flying high with angels and running free forever little darlin' in a place the likes of which you've never seen before.

My wish for those whom Noah left behind is that you receive comfort from your pain. Special condolences to everyone who loved him so much, so dearly.

 

[ninij9]

But then a kid will be found 2.1 miles out.

I just read on Deorr's thread about Jerold Williams age 5. Found deceased 3.7 miles from where he was last seen (and it's believed he walked double that to get there, and that he probably didn't survive the first night). So I guess the problem is, where do you draw the perimeter line?

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-jacob-lake-boy-found-dead-exposure/31473877/

Perhaps It could depend on the child and the child's habits? Some toddlers are sprinters as my son was, others were content to sit wherever you put them as my daughter was.

I won't even pretend to know much about SAR, and I know I have huge respect for the men, women and animals that devote their time and resources to this difficult task, I really do. I'm just overcome with sadness at the even tiniest of Chances that this baby could have been found alive and well if he was found within a certain time range.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Smarty Jones]

What the flippin flip, that kid was SO lucky! I bet his mama had a near breakdown when she saw the footage.

It illustrates how quickly they can disappear and how unbelievably fast they can travel! I momentarily 'lost' my son when he was about 3 years old - he was found in the center of a coat rack, hiding. The worst part was that we were in a Sears store, and Adam Walsh was all over the news. I lost a few years off my life that day, SMH.

 

[tiffay01]

Just catching up here. So devastated about this news. I feel so bad for his family!! I just can't even imagine the pain.

 

[Hatfield]

This is just another outside the box idea I was thinking about for the people involved in organizing the next search if necessary.

I think in addition to being meticulous and making sure every nook and cranny is searched as we move out from the last known position. I think it could be helpful to have a certain smaller group of searchers RUSH out ahead of everyone and cover as much ground as possible in perhaps a random willy nilly method. I realize there could be some downsides of doing this but I suppose I get worried that we sometimes try to be too meticulous and go too slow when we could have a different group charge out ahead rapidly and at least cover the most obvious places to try to find someone.

We have all seen those shows on TV where LE is arm to arm walking slowly looking for evidence. That situation needs that. But perhaps when looking for a running lost child then perhaps having a group cover as much ground as quickly as possible could also be beneficial.

This could be done in addition to the normal search protocols that take a more slow advance and more careful look.

Anyway, just tossing out another outside the box thing. Maybe its already what some SAR do.