AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #25

[Tiff23fr]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
Unfortunately, it take weeks to get warrants for some digital assets, b/c you need a warrant for each app on the phone, and so forth. The device manufacturers, cloud providers, and app developers create a lengthy process. It's very challenging, in my amateur opinion and speculation

Roses (or any Poster) have you been able to find any linkable sources that explains this process (i.e phone provider - app - turn around cycle). I just looked but was unsuccessful in finding anything that outlines it.
I went to the legal site for TikTok (just as one example) to see if that app alone offered a turnaround time for LE on the website, but there were no specifics.

 

[SLouTh]

Roses (or any Poster) have you been able to find any linkable sources that explains this process (i.e phone provider - app - turn around cycle). I just looked but was unsuccessful in finding anything that outlines it.
I went to the legal site for TikTok (just as one example) to see if that app alone offered a turnaround time for LE on the website, but there were no specifics.

I don’t know about the actual process, but CM said in one of his videos, that the fastest turn around time was approx 60days. (That may have been just for the phones … )

Wonder if we can ask him???

 

[bellesnwhistles]

Oh my!!! I am sure you were so relieved once you found her.

Here is my question:
So, IF Candus did the same and was yelling and screaming and Don says he was on the phone with Candus the whole way back, do you think he just laid his phone on the seat as to not hear her constantly yelling?

I am just curious how that would have worked out.

IMO, JMO....I wouldn't be bothered by holding a conversation with anyone except LE at that point in time.

But weren’t they messaging? So he was driving, speeding, and messaging. And she was driving around and looking for her but also FB messaging. Unless they were calling each other on FB messenger? I would think it would make more sense if they were actually on the phone together, but I’m pretty sure he said they were messaging.

 

[hdo82]

RSBM

I thought LE said it was after talking with neighbours?

MSM said that after they did a roadblock and talked with people coming in and out, yes a neighbor is who they said told them and it was the 14th or 15th of June.

 

[Sillybilly]

A couple of good reads on digital search warrants:

From the Law Enforcement Cyber Center

Writing A Search Warrant Application for a Mobile Device

 

[dacjess]

But weren’t they messaging? So he was driving, speeding, and messaging. And she was driving around and looking for her but also FB messaging. Unless they were calling each other on FB messenger? I would think it would make more sense if they were actually on the phone together, but I’m pretty sure he said they were messaging.

BBM

I think your post makes perfect sense. It just stands out to me that one thing is missing here: Looking For Summer. I’m not denying they did this, just thinking perhaps if they think the area was searched, something may have been missed in the initial haste? IMO.

 

[hdo82]

But weren’t they messaging? So he was driving, speeding, and messaging. And she was driving around and looking for her but also FB messaging. Unless they were calling each other on FB messenger? I would think it would make more sense if they were actually on the phone together, but I’m pretty sure he said they were messaging.

For Candus I would think that looking down to chat is taking time away from spotting Summer!!!! In the blink of an eye you could miss something, anything! Especially trying to look into treelines and such for a small child.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Roses (or any Poster) have you been able to find any linkable sources that explains this process (i.e phone provider - app - turn around cycle). I just looked but was unsuccessful in finding anything that outlines it.
I went to the legal site for TikTok (just as one example) to see if that app alone offered a turnaround time for LE on the website, but there were no specifics.

This is a very touchy topic for technology providers…very, as it deals with privacy issues and when to cooperate with LE.
You may see something buried deeply in their TOS. Emphasis on buried. The specifics on how data is handled is transparent, but the process with LE is handled by their security, privacy, and legal teams. That said, let me see if I can find something general that references these instances, and a MSM reference that talks about the timeframe. Until then, please consider the above opinion, and amateur speculation.

Roses

 

[hdo82]

I do actually. DW said this in an interview with The chers.

"....I'm not trying to put any churches down don't get me wrong there's a lot of good churches but there's a lot of children at this church. And you know usually they're like putting the children I mean children that are at the forefront in this church. And I love that you know, that meant a lot to me......"

Interview With Donald Wells / Part 2

So he changed churches for the children.

 

[December]

A person from the city would know SW from SM.

In CM's video where he goes to the house with CB he shows there is a pretty busy street not far from her house.

So, it is not out of the question that someone from out of the area figured out a way to get to SW. They could have bided their time until they found her alone.

After the power company cut a path up to the Wells' property it can be seen from a distance. Then there's the fact the dog(s) lost SW's scent at the road.

I know this is statistically unlikely, but there is so much we do not know in this case. (i am not really pushing this theory, but... SM kind of shrinks the world)

Basically we know Summer is missing. She has a family, we more or less know where most of them are (except RB).

 

[rosesfromangels]

Roses (or any Poster) have you been able to find any linkable sources that explains this process (i.e phone provider - app - turn around cycle). I just looked but was unsuccessful in finding anything that outlines it.
I went to the legal site for TikTok (just as one example) to see if that app alone offered a turnaround time for LE on the website, but there were no specifics.

This helps frame it up. Great report. Page 13 - "Summarizing the legal issues" really illustrates the challenges
https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/248770.pdf

Roses

 

[dacjess]

I think that DW said the family agreed to turn over their cell phones, but I’m not sure how that works legally. I started looking from the other end and there is a section here on probable cause for digital devices:

Probable Cause

Riley v. California - SCOTUSblog

 

[renarde]

Any reason the 911 call wasn't released?

Was there more than one call?

 

[dacjess]

Any reason the 911 call(s) weren't released?

There was speculation in a prior thread about who actually placed the call to 911 and if that may answer your question.

IMO.

 

[December]

I think that DW said the family agreed to turn over their cell phones, but I’m not sure how that works legally. I started looking from the other end and there is a section here on probable cause for digital devices:

Probable Cause

Riley v. California - SCOTUSblog

They turned over their phones. Other stuff from their house was taken after it was searched, idk a TV or something.

But, i think they let their phones be examined the first day (CB, DW, CH). H's phone was also given over. When CM interviewed H his grandma said H was using his grandfather's phone until he got his own back.

 

[renarde]

There was speculation in a prior thread about who actually placed the call to 911 and if that may answer your question.

IMO.

Why wouldn't a 911 call be released, other than that reason?

 

[MsMarple]

A person from the city would know SW from SM.

In CM's video where he goes to the house with CB he shows there is a pretty busy street not far from her house.

So, it is not out of the question that someone from out of the area figured out a way to get to SW. They could have bided their time until they found her alone.

After the power company cut a path up to the Wells' property it can be seen from a distance. Then there's the fact the dog(s) lost SW's scent at the road.

I know this is statistically unlikely, but there is so much we do not know in this case. (i am not really pushing this theory, but... SM kind of shrinks the world)

Basically we know Summer is missing. She has a family, we more or less know where most of them are (except RB).

How exactly would someone from "the city" know about summer from social media? Was anyone here aware of her before she went missing and her mother shared those TikTok videos in msm? I never heard of her or her family until I saw her case on WS.

As far as I know Summer didn't participate in children's pageants or have a YT channel. CB isn't a social media influencer. How would anyone outside of CB's circle of friends even know she existed?

IMO if anyone watched Summer on social media it would be someone the Wells family knew. One of their friends or a church member. Look in CB's, CH's and DW's inner circle first. MOO.

BTW @December this isn't aimed specifically at you; I've seen others, including DW state that someone must have seen Summer on FB or other social media and stalked her. My point is that she didn't have enough of a sm presence to be noticed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

This is a very touchy topic for technology providers…very, as it deals with privacy issues and when to cooperate with LE.
You may see something buried deeply in their TOS. Emphasis on buried. The specifics on how data is handled is transparent, but the process with LE is handled by their security, privacy, and legal teams. That said, let me see if I can find something general that references these instances, and a MSM reference that talks about the timeframe. Until then, please consider the above opinion, and amateur speculation.

Roses

Yes, it is a sensitive topic for tech providers. From what I have read so far it sounds like it is most important that LE is able to be specific about what it is they are requesting and why, or the process can go back and forth which drags out the time line.
I see that Google has launched a transparency report they update every 6 months. On average it appears that apx 80-85% of the time they provide some of the requested data for subpoena’s and search warrants. It also looks like they only deliver on “emergency requests” 69-70% of the time. (I filtered for US)
Google Transparency Report

 

[December]

I don't really know much about tiktok, but on youtube you can do a search for a subject and sometimes get small channels. But, i have never been on TikTok.

 

[Tiff23fr]

They turned over their phones. Other stuff from their house was taken after it was searched, idk a TV or something.

But, i think they let their phones be examined the first day (CB, DW, CH). H's phone was also given over. When CM interviewed H his grandma said H was using his grandfather's phone until he got his own back.

I wonder if it presents a challenge in general if a POI in any case who turns over their phone has deleted information on an app or google search history etc as an example. Would LE then need to go through the app/platform warrant process and need to know specifically what they are requesting. This makes me think they would need something to point to probable cause before the app warrant to have specifics for an app warrant. I am not an attorney though so this is just speculative.