AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #33

[Oriah]

Hey guys. Did we ever come up with the approximate location where footprints were supposedly found ? For some reason, I'm thinking it was in the field across from the shed that faces Beech Creek. Anyone know if that's correct ?

Hi Mountain_Kat, good to see you. I don't think that LE or SAR ever confirmed footprints found anywhere, did they? There was a lot of chatter about half a mile or so from the residence, in that area though. Neighboring property. Are you referring to the property across the road from the base of the Wells' property, or adjacent to?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Hi Mountain_Kat, good to see you. I don't think that LE or SAR ever confirmed footprints found anywhere, did they? There was a lot of chatter about half a mile or so from the residence, in that area though. Neighboring property. Are you referring to the property across the road from the base of the Wells' property, or adjacent to?

No, LE never said a word about footprints . I misspoke. What I should have asked is if we ever figured out where this midnight search occurred.

Search for Summer: Investigators, helicopters searching overnight for missing Rogersville 5-year-old | WJHL | Tri-Cities News & Weather

 

[Oriah]

No, LE never said a word about footprints . I misspoke. What I should have asked is if we ever figured out where this midnight search occurred.

Search for Summer: Investigators, helicopters searching overnight for missing Rogersville 5-year-old | WJHL | Tri-Cities News & Weather

Oh I see! I'm not sure we did. That area (pictured in the video) appears to be one of the searches in the relative vicinity of the properties down from the Wells' property- those fields that run along Beech Creek maybe about 200 or so yards off the road?
I remember wondering what the tip might have been that got a night helicopter out (likely with FLIR) simultaneously with so many people on the ground. That combo made me think it was urgent and time-sensitive. Jmo.

 

[LoveyG]

It wasn't just the chill of the mountain water. Candus has stated that only slurpees were purchased at Sonic, no food, which would also make her temperature drop.
I'm confused as to why, if she was redressed in her "school outfit" why she still had to sit on a pillow because she was wet. Makes no sense to me at all. At that point, she should have been dry. JMO

Do we know that she was sitting on a pillow? I don't recall seeing a pillow in the 'leaning on the milk jugs' picture. I think someone (H?) said there was a pillow and CB agreed when later asked about it during an interview with CM. I don't think anyone of us said 'oh yes, there's the pillow, I see now'. If someone did see the pillow, please assist. Maybe with one of those fancy shots with an arrow or circle pointing it out to me. The old eyes aren't what the used to be.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Oh I see! I'm not sure we did. That area (pictured in the video) appears to be one of the searches in the relative vicinity of the properties down from the Wells' property- those fields that run along Beech Creek maybe about 200 or so yards off the road?
I remember wondering what the tip might have been that got a night helicopter out (likely with FLIR) simultaneously with so many people on the ground. That combo made me think it was urgent and time-sensitive. Jmo.

Whatever lead to that search , it was 5 days out from Summer being reported missing. You know how saturated the area around the property was with SAR immediately after she was reported missing. So, in your opinion, how likely would it have been that a wandering child might have been missed for 5 days, given the FLIR and other equiptment utilized ?

 

[Oriah]

Whatever lead to that search , it was 5 days out from Summer being reported missing. You know how saturated the area around the property was with SAR immediately after she was reported missing. So, in your opinion, how likely would it have been that a wandering child might have been missed for 5 days, given the FLIR and other equiptment utilized ?

Whatever lead to that search , it was 5 days out from Summer being reported missing. You know how saturated the area around the property was with SAR immediately after she was reported missing. So, in your opinion, how likely would it have been that a wandering child might have been missed for 5 days, given the FLIR and other equiptment utilized ?

Right. So that can be a pretty complicated answer. Or a simple one, if we were to make the operative word "might". Operative word "might"equals it's possible an age 5 typically developing wandering or lost child could have been missed under the prior search conditions. Assuming utilization of a night helicopter with specialized resources based upon a tip, one can infer that LE was looking for something indicative of heat or aggressive disruption of something on the ground that might produce heat, that sort of thing. In searches such as the video link above indicates, I'm going to guess that the ground (fields/farm/roadside/water in mid-June) were favorable for a helicopter to clear in a much more rapid fashion than ground searchers could do. So I'm going to assume that the helicopter was out ahead of ground searchers, hoping to find indication of something thermal or disturbed. Fwiw- that doesn't necessarily mean the missing child. Helicopters with specialized resources have been used for suspects, disturbances as small as footprints, smoldering fires, grow locations, vessels in water etc etc, sometimes in conjunction with a missing persons case. So there's that.

On the other hand, heavy and active (and sometimes chaotic) ground searches all during that time period- as well as at the same time that air search was being conducted- could really cause some problems with the effective utilization of those specialized resources. Yes, Summer is small in size, and it was estimated that she was wearing light clothing and was possibly barefoot, which would give SAR in the air an indication of what to look for in imagery. But with a lot of people on the ground...it would be difficult to adequately utilize those resources. Which is what had me initially wondering what exactly the tip might have been to basically try and utilize ALL of those resources simultaneously. If that makes sense.

I would be interested to know if the ground searchers were advised to be calling for Summer during that particular search. Might seem like a minor detail, but I actually think that might answer a lot of questions for us. This is all moo, of course.

ETA: Apologies, 1st response to question got accidentally cut off and also double quoted.

 

[Chelly]

Hey guys. Did we ever come up with the approximate location where footprints were supposedly found ? For some reason, I'm thinking it was in the field across from the shed that faces Beech Creek. Anyone know if that's correct ?

I don't recall LE stating that footprints were found. Do you have a source?

 

[Chelly]

Rumors are plentiful in Summers case. There is no evidence of footprints nor are there facts about Summer sitting on a pillow. I know facts are few and are not much fun. But rumors, and speculations stated as fact, will not solve SW's disappearance. MOO.

 

[MsMarple]

Do we know that she was sitting on a pillow? I don't recall seeing a pillow in the 'leaning on the milk jugs' picture. I think someone (H?) said there was a pillow and CB agreed when later asked about it during an interview with CM. I don't think anyone of us said 'oh yes, there's the pillow, I see now'. If someone did see the pillow, please assist. Maybe with one of those fancy shots with an arrow or circle pointing it out to me. The old eyes aren't what the used to be.

You're right - CB talked about the pillow in the (allowed) interview at the house:

okay okay and what about the pillow the
29:01
pillow what pillow oh
29:02
she's sitting on a pillow she's [ __ ] oh
29:06
mom gets mad because if the kids get in
29:08
their wet bathing suit and stuff so i
29:10
just put (a) pillow underneath so mom wasn't
29:12
complaining

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Rumors are plentiful in Summers case. There is no evidence of footprints nor are there facts about Summer sitting on a pillow. I know facts are few and are not much fun. But rumors, and speculations stated as fact, will not solve SW's disappearance. MOO.

I agree with you, which is why I clearly stated that I misspoke. I was puzzling over something that Dave Radar said in an interview. I should have been more precise in my question.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Right. So that can be a pretty complicated answer. Or a simple one, if we were to make the operative word "might". Operative word "might"equals it's possible an age 5 typically developing wandering or lost child could have been missed under the prior search conditions. Assuming utilization of a night helicopter with specialized resources based upon a tip, one can infer that LE was looking for something indicative of heat or aggressive disruption of something on the ground that might produce heat, that sort of thing. In searches such as the video link above indicates, I'm going to guess that the ground (fields/farm/roadside/water in mid-June) were favorable for a helicopter to clear in a much more rapid fashion than ground searchers could do. So I'm going to assume that the helicopter was out ahead of ground searchers, hoping to find indication of something thermal or disturbed. Fwiw- that doesn't necessarily mean the missing child. Helicopters with specialized resources have been used for suspects, disturbances as small as footprints, smoldering fires, grow locations, vessels in water etc etc, sometimes in conjunction with a missing persons case. So there's that.

On the other hand, heavy and active (and sometimes chaotic) ground searches all during that time period- as well as at the same time that air search was being conducted- could really cause some problems with the effective utilization of those specialized resources. Yes, Summer is small in size, and it was estimated that she was wearing light clothing and was possibly barefoot, which would give SAR in the air an indication of what to look for in imagery. But with a lot of people on the ground...it would be difficult to adequately utilize those resources. Which is what had me initially wondering what exactly the tip might have been to basically try and utilize ALL of those resources simultaneously. If that makes sense.

I would be interested to know if the ground searchers were advised to be calling for Summer during that particular search. Might seem like a minor detail, but I actually think that might answer a lot of questions for us. This is all moo, of course.

ETA: Apologies, 1st response to question got accidentally cut off and also double quoted.

Thank you, Oriah. This was exactly the kind of informed opinion I was looking for. Your last comment has me particularly intrigued, so maybe I'll try to scour around for any footage of that search that might contain audio. I'll shoot you a pm if I find anything.

 

[Turkeytrot]

Thank you, Oriah. This was exactly the kind of informed opinion I was looking for. Your last comment has me particularly intrigued, so maybe I'll try to scour around for any footage of that search that might contain audio. I'll shoot you a pm if I find anything.

Was it this one?
Search for Summer: Investigators, helicopters searching overnight for missing Rogersville 5-year-old | WJHL | Tri-Cities News & Weather

There are a few videos with sound in this article

 

[Chelly]

You're right - CB talked about the pillow in the (allowed) interview at the house:

okay okay and what about the pillow the
29:01
pillow what pillow oh
29:02
she's sitting on a pillow she's [ __ ] oh
29:06
mom gets mad because if the kids get in
29:08
their wet bathing suit and stuff so i
29:10
just put (a) pillow underneath so mom wasn't
29:12
complaining

If Candus said it, it must be true. Nope,
Not fact, not evidence. We can choose to believe Candus and Don or we can choose not to. Based on the preponderance of lies, substance abuse issues, criminal history and absurd behavior, I can't believe a word they say. But that's just me.

 

[Oriah]

Thank you, Oriah. This was exactly the kind of informed opinion I was looking for. Your last comment has me particularly intrigued, so maybe I'll try to scour around for any footage of that search that might contain audio. I'll shoot you a pm if I find anything.

I'm now looking around a bit as well, trying to find the specifics on that search (i.e. which SAR and LE involved, volunteers etc.) Day 3 into 4 seems to be when significant outside/specialized resources were mobilized?
Sometimes during SAR operations in which helicopters are in use, particularly at night or in low visibility conditions or when the MP might need to be encouraged or identified by the sound of the helicopter, silence on the ground might be requested. There are a few other reasons as well. But unless SAR/LE had reason to believe that calling for Summer (on the ground) could interfere with the possible success of that search, it seems to me that ground searchers should have still been utilizing controlled calling alternating with silence in the hope that she was still able to hear/respond/indicate movement, and was in the target area. They very well might have been doing exactly that. Those type of search flights typically do a flyover of the area, then go into a grid pattern of the area of interest. That's moo of course. The SAR coordinator for that search would know those details, do we know who led that particular search?

 

[lonetraveler]

Do we know that she was sitting on a pillow? I don't recall seeing a pillow in the 'leaning on the milk jugs' picture. I think someone (H?) said there was a pillow and CB agreed when later asked about it during an interview with CM. I don't think anyone of us said 'oh yes, there's the pillow, I see now'. If someone did see the pillow, please assist. Maybe with one of those fancy shots with an arrow or circle pointing it out to me. The old eyes aren't what the used to be.

I didn't see a pillow either. I was referencing what H and C said.

 

[lonetraveler]

If Candus said it, it must be true. Nope,
Not fact, not evidence. We can choose to believe Candus and Don or we can choose not to. Based on the preponderance of lies, substance abuse issues, criminal history and absurd behavior, I can't believe a word they say. But that's just me.

If I'm referring to the so called statement from H and Candus said, that doesn't mean that I believe a dang thing they are saying. Just wanted to clear that up. I'm saying, IF there was supposedly a pillow that Summer was sitting on, where is it?

 

[lonetraveler]

Do we know that she was sitting on a pillow? I don't recall seeing a pillow in the 'leaning on the milk jugs' picture. I think someone (H?) said there was a pillow and CB agreed when later asked about it during an interview with CM. I don't think anyone of us said 'oh yes, there's the pillow, I see now'. If someone did see the pillow, please assist. Maybe with one of those fancy shots with an arrow or circle pointing it out to me. The old eyes aren't what the used to be.

Excuse me, I was referring to what Candus and H have stated. Period. If there was indeed, a pillow, where the heck is it? I don't believe anything these two say, BYW.

 

[lonetraveler]

Rumors are plentiful in Summers case. There is no evidence of footprints nor are there facts about Summer sitting on a pillow. I know facts are few and are not much fun. But rumors, and speculations stated as fact, will not solve SW's disappearance. MOO.

I don't believe anyone has referred to her sitting on a pillow as 'fact. This is just coming from statements made by Candus and H.

 

[lonetraveler]

Do we know that she was sitting on a pillow? I don't recall seeing a pillow in the 'leaning on the milk jugs' picture. I think someone (H?) said there was a pillow and CB agreed when later asked about it during an interview with CM. I don't think anyone of us said 'oh yes, there's the pillow, I see now'. If someone did see the pillow, please assist. Maybe with one of those fancy shots with an arrow or circle pointing it out to me. The old eyes aren't what the used to be.

No one, as far as I know, has actually seen a pillow...../

 

[MsMarple]

If Candus said it, it must be true. Nope,
Not fact, not evidence. We can choose to believe Candus and Don or we can choose not to. Based on the preponderance of lies, substance abuse issues, criminal history and absurd behavior, I can't believe a word they say. But that's just me.

I should have been clearer - I submitted what CB said about a pillow when the interviewer asked about it. The original mention of a pillow came from the front porch table interview with H and the others.

I haven't seen any photos of a pillow nor has LE said anything about a pillow. Of course we can choose to believe or disbelieve what we want when the information comes from someone other than LE. I don't know if there was or wasn't a pillow, just relaying what Summer's mother said about it.