GUILTY TN - Yair Carillo, 4 days old, abducted, mom stabbed, Antioch, 29 Sept 2009

[mycroft]

I'm confused. If the Mom supposedly gonna sell her baby, why was she stabbed during his abduction?

This is why I initially thought it might be a scam gone awry. Perhaps there was no intention to actually "sell" the boy as happens with adoption scams.

I would think that this couple must have some evidence to support this assertion. Certainly they should be able to show cash withdrawals from their accounts to cover the payoff, etc. If she became violent and kidnapped the child, perhaps she had already paid money for him.

Or perhaps someone else was involved pretending to act on the mother's behalf to conduct the sale. The sign in front of their house announcing the newborn could be a flag for the perp, placed there by someone else to indicate which house the boy was at.

 

[CHICANA]

Mother Accused of Trying to Sell Infant



Snipped from: http://www.wsmv.com/news/21204908/detail.html

So there we go. That's why the mother got the children taken away.

Unofficial statements from unnamed persons about unproven ALLEGATIONS/ACCUSATIONS by an unknown source.
I still don't know why the children were taken. The worker felt that it was in the children's best interests. This isn't about a stranger's feelings, what about the children's feelings or the parent's feelings ? I'd like to see some facts. Anybody can make accusations.
Children are only supposed to be removed if they have been abused and are at risk of serious physical harm or death.
LE hasn't said anything to back up these allegations, and I think CPS is lying to cover their butts. Why else are officials who don't want to be identified making "unofficial" comments ?
Plus, who puts a sign in the yard PROUDLY announcing the birth of their baby boy while trying to sell him ?

 

[CHICANA]

There must be some evidence. Phone records, Craigslist listing, another form of correspondence, etc. I doubt they'd remove kids based on the claims of someone close to the defendant. Particularly since the BF hasn't always claimed this was a sale--he said she was adopting a family member's infant from Texas. When did the sale allegations come in?

If he's claiming it was a sale now, then he lied earlier. I'm assuming LE must have something else. Otherwise they'd be seen as targeting a victimized minority mother of young children. Not really good PR.

Has LE said that they're investigating this or is this just what the child welfare workers are unofficially claiming. The kidnapper lied to her BF, they're now trying to come up with a defense. I don't believe the parents tried to sell this baby. My husband is from the same state in MX as the dad and the people I know from there live for their children.

 

[MomofBoys]

Unofficial statements from unnamed persons about unproven ALLEGATIONS/ACCUSATIONS by an unknown source.
I still don't know why the children were taken. The worker felt that it was in the children's best interests. This isn't about a stranger's feelings, what about the children's feelings or the parent's feelings ? I'd like to see some facts. Anybody can make accusations.

Anyone can make accusations, but there must be something making those accusations credible.

And I'm sorry, but an attempt to sell your baby, whether she intended to go through with it or whether it was a scam, should result in the children being removed. Period. People who sell their infants have serious issues, IMHO, and they have no idea what the children will be used for. Child for an infertile couple? Or ritualistic abuse/sex trafficking/servant?

If this was a scam, she invited potentially dangerous forces into her home, and that much is obvious from her own stab wounds. And I think that same assault will be, in part, mitigated in court if it turns out she promised this woman the baby and then didn't go through with it. It was the RIGHT thing to do, as both actions are criminal, but either way, she's an awful parent. Who knows what peril her kids could have been in?

That's if all this is true, of course, but considering I've been saying the same thing for days, these allegations are not shocking to me. The mother seemed off from the start, and it seemed she wasn't a target by accident.

My husband is from the same state in MX as the dad and the people I know from there live for their children.

I'm sure that's true for most, but with all due respect, that could likely be said for any region. MOST people live for their children. There are also people out there who just...don't. I've lived in Orlando and could say most moms there adore their kids. Then you have Casey Anthony. I live in Tampa now and don't know one awful parent. But then there was the guy who tossed his baby out the car window. There are creeps everywhere and it doesn't matter where they live.

 

[CHICANA]

Some info about the kidnapper and boyfriend.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/yair_carillos_kidnapper_tammy.php

 

[CHICANA]

Anyone can make accusations, but there must be something making those accusations credible.

And I'm sorry, but an attempt to sell your baby, whether she intended to go through with it or whether it was a scam, should result in the children being removed. Period. People who sell their infants have serious issues, IMHO, and they have no idea what the children will be used for. Child for an infertile couple? Or ritualistic abuse/sex trafficking/servant?

If this was a scam, she invited potentially dangerous forces into her home, and that much is obvious from her own stab wounds. And I think that same assault will be, in part, mitigated in court if it turns out she promised this woman the baby and then didn't go through with it. It was the RIGHT thing to do, as both actions are criminal, but either way, she's an awful parent. Who knows what peril her kids could have been in?

That's if all this is true, of course, but considering I've been saying the same thing for days, these allegations are not shocking to me. The mother seemed off from the start, and it seemed she wasn't a target by accident.



I'm sure that's true for most, but with all due respect, that could likely be said for any region. MOST people live for their children. There are also people out there who just...don't. I've lived in Orlando and could say most moms there adore their kids. Then you have Casey Anthony. I live in Tampa now and don't know one awful parent. But then there was the guy who tossed his baby out the car window. There are creeps everywhere and it doesn't matter where they live.

We don't know if the accusations are credible, and I haven't seen any evidence to show she tried to sell her baby. If there's credible evidence, why wasn't she arrested.
IMO, the parents didn't try to sell their baby and CPS took the kids on flimsy accusations made by some unknown person.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

"Officials told the family that they are holding the children until they can be sure that the suspect acted alone." (snipped from post/article above)

Personally, I feel that this is reason enough. I don't like that the children are away from their mother, but for safety's sake, isn't it better that the children are elsewhere, until the situation is figured out?

Do "we" know when the "It's a Boy" sign was put up and if so, by whom?

 

[CHICANA]

"Officials told the family that they are holding the children until they can be sure that the suspect acted alone." (snipped from post/article above)

Personally, I feel that this is reason enough. I don't like that the children are away from their mother, but for safety's sake, isn't it better that the children are elsewhere, until the situation is figured out?

Do "we" know when the "It's a Boy" sign was put up and if so, by whom?

Did LE say this or CPS ? Why don't they protect the whole family ? Together.
Unless they're at risk because of the parents, they don't legally have the right to separate them. But they don't have to obey the law because the records are sealed and nobody knows when they're breaking it.
Honestly, whoever is making these unofficial statements is violating their own rules by talking about the case in the first place.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Did LE say this or CPS ? Why don't they protect the whole family ? Together.
Unless they're at risk because of the parents, they don't legally have the right to separate them. But they don't have to obey the law because the records are sealed and nobody knows when they're breaking it.
Honestly, whoever is making these unofficial statements is violating their own rules by talking about the case in the first place.

The article I snipped from (above) says that "DCS is acting with an abundance of caution." The person who says this is Rob Johnson, a spokesperson for DCS (which I believe to be "Dept of Child Services"?)

It sounds as though they do think that the children are at risk because of the mother (from what I've read), I am not sure what they know about the father.

If "they" (DCS) think that the mother may have been selling the baby, I feel that it's probably in everyone's best interest to have all the children removed. I'm praying that they're (DCS) wrong, but in the meantime, I can't think of a better way to deal with the situation. I'm also praying that the children are well cared for and the situation at hand is solved quickly.

You could be correct that whoever is making the statements is violating the rules, but in this case, there was an Amber Alert, putting the abduction in the spotlight, and I feel it's best that they've alerted the public that the baby is alive, I just don't know what is best from that point on?

 

[CHICANA]

The article I snipped from (above) says that "DCS is acting with an abundance of caution." The person who says this is Rob Johnson, a spokesperson for DCS (which I believe to be "Dept of Child Services"?)

It sounds as though they do think that the children are at risk because of the mother (from what I've read), I am not sure what they know about the father.

If "they" (DCS) think that the mother may have been selling the baby, I feel that it's probably in everyone's best interest to have all the children removed. I'm praying that they're (DCS) wrong, but in the meantime, I can't think of a better way to deal with the situation. I'm also praying that the children are well cared for and the situation at hand is solved quickly.

You could be correct that whoever is making the statements is violating the rules, but in this case, there was an Amber Alert, putting the abduction in the spotlight, and I feel it's best that they've alerted the public that the baby is alive, I just don't know what is best from that point on?

I'd like them to do more than just think the mother may have been selling the baby. I'd like them to have some proof to back up the trauma being caused to both the parents and the children. From what I've read, they've received a bunch of e-mailed tips.
I liked this one...
An anonymous email came into our newsroom just hours after the missing infant was found.

The tipster didn't respond to our request for further information including his/his relationship to the people involved.
http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=11263043

This upstanding anonymous citizen reports this AFTER the baby is found.
Does this mean they knew where the baby was the whole time and was protecting a murderous kidnapper ?

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Honestly CHICANA, I don't know if the tips they've received are credible or if they're acting in a cautious manner, just in case. The kidnapper could have made accusations that the parents were trying to sell the baby, I don't know. Given the information we've been able to read, I feel a bit better that DCS might err on the side of caution. I'm not saying I'm convinced that the mom did intend to sell the baby, I really don't know what's the best way to sort through the allegations and keep the children safe, at the same time.

I'm just praying that this case can be resolved and the children can all live their lives out of harm's way.

 

[CHICANA]

Are they really better off ? Especially considering they were removed on unproven accusations.
In all these cases, they erred on the side of the child, they made a child focused decision. And the child payed for it, sometimes with their life.

http://www.liftingtheveil.org/foster04.htm
One of the most comprehensive surveys of abuse in foster care was conducted in conjunction with a Baltimore lawsuit. Trudy Festinger, head of the Department of Research at the New York University School of Social Work, determined that over 28 per cent of the children in state care had been abused while in the system.

Reviewed cases depicted "a pattern of physical, sexual and emotional abuses" inflicted upon children in the custody of the Baltimore Department.

Cases reviewed as the trial progressed revealed children who had suffered continuous sexual and physical abuse or neglect in foster homes known to be inadequate by the Department. Cases included that of sexual abuse of young girls by their foster fathers, and that of a young girl who contracted gonorrhea of the throat as a result of sexual abuse in an unlicenced foster home.[1]


http://www.rd.com/your-america-insp...ngly-accused-of-child-abuse/article31773.html

http://www.nowpublic.com/politics/b...vices-kidnapping-and-drugging-profit-policies

http://badbreeders.net/tag/foster-parents/

http://205.209.52.72/a-1413555~Lawmaker_says_CPS_officials_guilty_of__ruthless_behavior_.html

A former foster mother got 25 years to life Friday in the death of a 17-month-old child
http://www.kcra.com/news/20499047/detail.html

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/cnn-news/20585148/detail.html
TheYoung Foster Kids Found Hitchhiking In 'Escape' Attempt
4 boys -- as well as their 1-year-old sister, whom they had to leave behind when they decided to hitchhike -- have all been removed from the Bakers' custody and placed in new foster homes.

http://justice4mothers.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/two-corrupt-judges-down-many-more-to-go/
This is an ongoing case. The key points IMO, being unwatched government & that not enough informed and interested observers are watching it

http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/foundations/government/courts/907231113

The picture painted by this lawsuit should surprise no one who understands how unwatched government works, even in a democracy dependent on informed popular oversight. One federal agency charged with oversight of the securities markets instead overlooks the risks that the public expects it to check, not because it's a secret agency but because not enough informed and interested observers are watching it.

Check out the videos that show the trauma children go through when they're removed from their parents. IMO, there needs to be proof that children are in danger before subjecting them to this.
http://www.examiner.com/x-14537-Alb...ren-when-they-take-them-from-innocent-parents

 

[Boyz_Mum]

CHICANA, I personally am not fond of how CPS, DCS (or whatever they're called) operates. They do make a lot of mistakes and many have been fatal. Local to us, a little girl was returned to her family and beat to death in a motel room. Another local child was "overlooked" and the mother had to send her for visitation with dad. Dad's girlfriend murdered the little girl. The list continues to grow, as does my anger toward the system that's supposed to work.

In this case, since it happened as a result of an Amber Alert, I am just praying that they move forward and get these kids in the safest location possible. I'm hoping that with all the eyes that are watching this situation unfold, it helps to guarantee their (the children's) safety. Above all, I pray that the mom had nothing to do with this abduction.

 

[MomofBoys]

So, Chicana, are you arguing that if she did try to sell the baby, the kids should still be with her anyway? I'm honestly asking. Because your posts would seem to indicate that.

To answer a question probably directed at someone else, YES I think they'd be better off. If she's guilty, those kids should be placed in safe, appropriate care and they need to think about getting her rights terminated. Because if it's true, she tried to sell her child. Even if it was a scam, she deliberately placed her children in harm's way, potentially, for money.

If you're willing to sell your child, you should not be a parent. Maybe ever again. It shows a disconnect that's very troubling, and if the current infant turns out profitable, then perhaps you're onto a new career as a baby mill operator. Who knows. I just think it's disturbing and I totally advocate keeping those kids safe until this is fleshed out.

 

[CHICANA]

So, Chicana, are you arguing that if she did try to sell the baby, the kids should still be with her anyway? I'm honestly asking. Because your posts would seem to indicate that.

To answer a question probably directed at someone else, YES I think they'd be better off. If she's guilty, those kids should be placed in safe, appropriate care and they need to think about getting her rights terminated. Because if it's true, she tried to sell her child. Even if it was a scam, she deliberately placed her children in harm's way, potentially, for money.

If you're willing to sell your child, you should not be a parent. Maybe ever again. It shows a disconnect that's very troubling, and if the current infant turns out profitable, then perhaps you're onto a new career as a baby mill operator. Who knows. I just think it's disturbing and I totally advocate keeping those kids safe until this is fleshed out.

I don't think she's guilty. Notice how they've never said they have evidence ? Just allegations.

 

[MomofBoys]

But to be honest, the investigation is still ongoing. I don't think for a second that we know everything they do. Even the anonymous source is speaking vaguely. I truly believe those kids would still be with her unless they have serious reservations about her story.

I don't think any of us can know her guilt or innocence. Neither of us is more informed than the other, and that's the trouble with investigations in the early stages like this.

 

[mycroft]

To answer a question probably directed at someone else, YES I think they'd be better off. If she's guilty, those kids should be placed in safe, appropriate care and they need to think about getting her rights terminated. Because if it's true, she tried to sell her child. Even if it was a scam, she deliberately placed her children in harm's way, potentially, for money.

Exactly. The kids were taken pending judicial review. That's not permanent. That's pending judicial review. That means a judge will review the facts and determine whether they should be taken from the parents. Given that the charges involve circumstances that lead to the disappearance of one of the children, it is not unreasonable to remove the others temporarily pending a hearing on the charges and facts.

 

[MomofBoys]

ITA, mycroft.

And we don't know she's guilty, but imagine if we let John Couey out pending trial. "Well, we don't know that he did it for sure. These are just allegations." Our system is built on an abudance of caution. You can't pronounce someone guilty prior to a fair trial, but you can't risk placing people in danger while the wheels of justice spin slowly toward a resolution.

This woman may not have killed anyone, but if they have any piece of credible evidence that says she tried to broker her baby, then they just can't take the chance.

 

[CHICANA]

ITA, mycroft.

And we don't know she's guilty, but imagine if we let John Couey out pending trial. "Well, we don't know that he did it for sure. These are just allegations." Our system is built on an abudance of caution. You can't pronounce someone guilty prior to a fair trial, but you can't risk placing people in danger while the wheels of justice spin slowly toward a resolution.

This woman may not have killed anyone, but if they have any piece of credible evidence that says she tried to broker her baby, then they just can't take the chance.

There was evidence in the Couey case. I would believe it if it was coming from LE. If your neighbor called CPS right now and told them you were abusing your child, would it be ok with you if they came, took your kids and handed them over to strangers before they investigated the claims ?

 

[SuziQ]

The Tennessee mother of a kidnapped baby will regain custody of her four kids and is cleared of involvement in an alleged baby-selling plan, a lawyer for the children said Tuesday.
Thomas Miller — who is representing the newborn allegedly abducted by a fake immigration agent and his three siblings — said a Tuesday custody hearing was canceled amid an investigation into the claims that the family tried to sell the baby boy.
Miller said mother Maria Gurrolla will be reunited with 1-week-old Yair Anthony Carillo after losing him twice in less than a week, first to the kidnapper and then to state foster care.

More at link:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,561060,00.html?test=latestnews