Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Carol70]

Yes. We would just dial 911 straight away, even if you lived in a community with security. Calling them in a life and death emergency wouldn't make sense when 911 is so accessible to everyone. Perhaps a security person also functions differently abroad than they do here.

We do have a emergency number but its not very reliable, police and ambulances take notoriously long to arrive. If you need medical attention, you try get to the hospital yourself. We call our local Neighbourhood Watch in case of emergency, and majority SA people make use of private security firms.

Note: Im not dissing our police and ambulance response time, but there are regularly only 1 or 2 ambulances/police vans servicing very large areas.

 

[Pisto_lius]

First: Thank you so much to all of you for your updates and grateful statements. This makes it possible for me to imagine what happened in court the last two days. Thanks a lot :loveyou: :blowkiss: :tyou:


Changing the actions OP claimed in his affidavit perhaps could explain what the witnesses heard - maybe I'm wrong with my following speculations but I don’t believe OP’s affidavit version


1. there was an argument.... he attacked Reeva.... she fled (with her iPhone) into the toilet room, locked the door...

2. OP threatened her: "Come out by yourself or I'll get you out!".... Reeva said: "NO! If you will do this I call for help, I have my handy with me"

3. OP becomes increasingly angry.... he takes his cricket bat.... banging against the door once....

4. Reeva screams for help.... OP imitate her screams... thinks he is in a stronger position because of her fear...

5. Reeva screams louder....

6. OP banging against the door several times.... one door panel smashed....

7. now he can see Reeva inside the toilet room....

8. Reeva is crying, screaming desperately for help very loud.... (the bathroom window is open, neighbours could hear her screams)....

8. OP takes his gun... turns on the lights in the bathroom for a better view....

9. he fires the first shot through the not broken part of the door, aiming where he sees Reeva - this hits Reeva's thigh.... she's still screaming....

10. now OP knows he must bring Reeva to silence..... he fires the second shot through the broken panel, he can see exactly where Reeva is - this hits Reeva's shoulder because she's still moving, trying to dodge the gunshots.... still screaming....

11. OP fired the third shot through the broken panel... this hits Reeva's head..... her screams fall silent... Reeva is dead immediately.... time: appr. 3:17…..

12. OP fired the fourth and last shot, again through the not broken panel.... Reeva lies on the ground of the toilet room.... this shot hits the toilet wall but it doesn't matter....

13. OP goes to the balcony, screaming for help.... he takes his iPhone and returns to the bathroom.... he calls Stander.... goes downstairs to open the door....

14. back in the bathroom.... OP opens the toilet door.... pulls out Reeva from the toilet room.... grabs her bloody iPhone and places it at the bathmat near the cricket bat and his gun...

15. then he carries Reeva downstairs....


* first he used the cricket bat, then his gun.... that's the reason why no witness heard the bang... bang... bang noise of the cricket bat....

* two shots through the not broken panel, two shots through the broken panel....

* witnesses didn't heard the cricket bat noises because this wasn't as loud and two people cried very loud all the time.... they awoke by Reeva's screams.... the next they heard were the gunshots in which Reeva's voice broke off...

 

[HauntsForHope]

Good Morning Trial watchers. I'm getting a late start today. Where are we with the archives? Is it day 4 ? Have this mornings sessions been published yet? I can't seem to find them.... I started listening on WAT but I heard that testimony yesterday, so I'm confused...lol

Just found this... This it?
Oscar Pistorius Trial: Thursday 6 March 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

 

[Dmacky]

I have been following this case since the beautiful Reeva was killed. It took me forever, but I finally found some of the articles I had read after this tradgedy.


Was the bloody cricket bat used to beat Reeva?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-s...-skull-crushed


Roid Rage?

http://news.yahoo.com/report-steroid...131405281.html.

 

[HauntsForHope]

With all of the illegal steroids found in his home, I do believe he had roid rage. I would also call into question some of his medals, was he using them during competitions??

 

[turaj]

Hello...missed trial until late Wed. and am catching up. Initial impressions...Roux no doubt has a plan but wow so rude. This "milady" every two minutes with everything going via her drives me crazy. Has anyone in SA ever heard of the objection "asked and answered?" because they are just rehashing things a million times. This could go for years. Hard trial to watch but will try to continue..and yes I know it is a different system.

 

[Cherwell]

Carol70,

Could you clarify something for me, please? Do South Africans use the word 'bathroom' to mean 'toilet', or are the two things always distinct, as in the UK?

I ask because Americans use the word bathroom to mean toilet (as in "bathroom break"). In Britain we never do this: when we say 'bathroom' we mean a room containing a bath and/or shower.
We use many different words to describe the small room with just a WC (toilet, loo, lavatory, WC and many more ), but we never call it a bathroom. (Although regrettably this US usage is starting to creep in with younger people)

I'm sure this case is demonstrating how important it can be to distinguish between the two things.

 

[Really?]

.

Trooper & Zwiebel & Sorrell Skye:

:gthanks:

.

:yourock:

I ditto this....thanks a bunch...I did go back to sleep when they called for lunch and am now enjoying playing catch up reading your posts.......:loveyou:

 

[aa9511]

OK friends,
I am having trouble understanding what all is being said. The ONE thing I hear very clearly and often is "my lady". Who is this lady??? :giggle: They are answering Roux's questions, and he is clearly not a lady. Is there a different meaning in SA?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[aa9511]

It's more like "mi-layday"

 

[aa9511]

Well, I mean, what are the odds that they heard four cricket bat bangs as opposed to gun shots, which also happen to be the exact number of shots Pistorius fired into the door? And it clearly it took more than four quick loud strikes to the door to break it down. So why would they only have heard four? And they heard the sound of a bat striking a door but not the gunshots, which I assume are much louder?

I don't think someone could confuse the sounds of a cricket bat hitting the door with gunshots. I think the whole comparison is pretty ridiculous.

JMO.

 

[Cherry]

That's exactly what I am doing playing catchup but can't believe what I'm reading!!

 

[shane13]

Did anyone catch the timegap between the 2 sets of shots according to this last witness?

TIA

 

[aa9511]

My commentary in blue ...

For questions #4 (I think) re: Burger and her husband discussing - I"m sure they discussed it, but they might not have discussed their statements to police. For example, I told them this and this and this. And then the husband says which order he told everything in. I think they both just said whatever they heard. They already knew what each other heard, b/c they were both together (heard same general things) and had probably discussed it on the night and following day.

Also, to the point of Burger denying they had discussed it, I think one thing we have to consider is that she probably knew where Roux was trying to go with that line of questioning. It's not that hard to figure out. On top of that, she had already spent hours getting to know that he was trying to say she was confused about what she heard, mistaken about what she heard, and even lying about what she heard. He was trying to say she heard cricket bat when she KNOWS she heard gunshots!

IMO, it's not about some kind of agenda. It's about, someone is trying to twist your words around and disregard and blatantly misrepresent what YOU actually heard.

Burger and her husband and the 3rd witness, they all heard gunshots. They were all clear that it was gunshots. Yet here is this attorney, trying to say the sound was from the cricket bat!!

So I think it is very natural for Burger to have realized what game Roux was playing, and to be defensive in terms of not letting him try to change her testimony.

JMO.

 

[Crycket]

This made some of the facts really clear and gives a hint as to what evidence is still to come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noVdB2WP2DE

 

[HauntsForHope]

Everyone is addressing the Judge. Milady.

According to Mr Webster:

mi·la·dy noun \mi-ˈlā-dē, US also mī-\

Definition of MILADY

1
: an Englishwoman of noble or gentle birth
2
: a woman of fashion
Examples of MILADY

<the 18th-century quack Franz Anton Mesmer specialized in the curing of those mysterious ailments to which pampered miladies seem especially prone>
Origin of MILADY

French, from English my lady
First Known Use: 1778

 

[whiterum]

I think the State's case is sound and they know exactly which direction they are taking. All this OP screaming like a woman is all wind and bluster, it was RS screaming for her life that the witnesses heard pure and simple !

 

[HauntsForHope]

I think the State's case is sound and they know exactly which direction they are taking. All this OP screaming like a woman is all wind and bluster, it was RS screaming for her life that the witnesses heard pure and simple !

I agree 1000% :twocents:

 

[HauntsForHope]

Explore this interactive for a play by play and to see each side's argument:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/28/world...nteractive/index.html?sr=fb030614pistorius10a

 

[aa9511]

I don't see that anybody is discussing this just yet, so I wanted to get your take on the exchange between Roux and Johnson today detailing the times of the phone calls.

Charl Johnson calls security from his wife's cell phone at 3:16am. The call lasts for 58 seconds.

After, he throws the phone down and goes back to the balcony (probably takes several seconds), he hears the screams again and then the gunshots. So lets just estimate that perhaps some time around 3:17:30am is when the shots take place.

Oscar's call to Stander (security) was placed at 3:19:50. (I believe I heard 50seconds but he could have said 15 seconds, correct me if I'm wrong).

So there was a very short time frame, about 2 minutes between when the shots went off and when Stander was called.

According to Oscar's bail affidavit, the following occurred after the shots:

• He ran to the bedroom & realized Reeva was not in bed (still on stumps).
• He returned to the bathroom but the toilet door was locked (still on stumps).
• He went back to the bedroom, opened the balcony door, exited and yelled for help (still on stumps).
• Now he put on his prosthetic legs.
• He ran back to the bathroom tried to kick the door open which didn't work.
• So he ran back to the bedroom to grab his cricket bat.
• Then he ran back to the bathroom and bashed the door in.
• He then found the bathroom key on the floor, unlocked the door and pulled Reeva out to the bathroom.
• HE THEN PHONED STANDER.

After that call is when he went downstairs to open the front door. Then he went back upstairs to get Reeva and carried her down the stairs. On his way down the stairs, Stander arrived as well as a doctor who lived in the neighborhood. Seems like they would have gotten there pretty darn quick.

Something is wrong here. There is no way in the world he could have done all of that in less than 2 minutes before calling Stander, especially since part of it was without his legs.

So it begs the question... at what point in the event did he actually call Stander? Was if pretty much right after the shots? Did he do all the running around and bashing in with the cricket bat after calling Stander?

I think this is a very crucial part in the story to figure out.

BRAVO!! Thank you for your excellent analysis!! Some of the folks on here lay things out much better than either side's attorneys in many of the cases I've followed, where in the end, they still can't give the jury a clear picture like this.

You are very right - IMO, there's NO WAY he could have done all of that in that time frame. I hope the prosecution goes into the exact timings, etc., like you did.

So how do you all think he got the key to the bathroom?

Do you guys think the door was really locked? I know that sounds like a silly question, but maybe he just decided he wanted to shoot her and didn't care about the door being in the way. IDK.

**Edit: But Reeva would have locked it when she went in to hide from him. Maybe he had another key somewhere?