Trial Discussion Thread #17

[Viper]

I saw it too! Here ya go

I don't recognize him as one of her ex's though.... at least not the ones that I've seen. Also, the left hand side of the chat was cut off on the screen so I can't make out who this message was from, date, time, etc

Thanks Lisa! Just wondering though, why is it automatically assumed that he is Reeva's ex boyfriend or some new interest of Reeva's? Reeva seemed dedicated to her relationship with OP. Isn't it just as likely that the man in the image was someone important to OP?

 

[soozieqtips]

Instantly or a couple of breaths do not equal nine minutes. I really don't see how that "confirms ...that OP may have thought Reeva was still alive when trying to revive her".

It's yet another part of his account that does not ring true.

For all we know, he only tried to 'render' assistance when Dr Stipp turned up unannounced. And seeing as OP was allegedly on his way out to the hospital with Reeva, why did he suddenly decide to stop and 'render' assistance? Why not 'render' this assistance when he pulled her out of the toilet? So he's carrying Reeva downstairs and he's on his way to hospital, when he suddenly decides to try and resuscitate her... losing more time in getting her medical help from professionals?

I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived.

A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived.
Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could.

Also, as someone else posted earlier, how come he was blind on the way to the bathroom and couldn't see Reeva, yet on the way back, by which time he still hadn't switched on the lights - his eyesight was miraculously restored and he could suddenly 'see' Reeva wasn't there? The guy has a screw loose if he seriously expects anyone to buy this load of absolute tripe.

 

[delilah]

Without having heard the Defence's side we seem to be stuck with varying scenarios. Apart from the screaming and 4 shots do we have any other 'solid' evidence of pre-meditation or intentional murder?

If there was 'solid' evidence, we wouldn't be hear arguing the case for and against.

As the state said, the case is based largely on circumstantial evidence. OP is the only living visual witness to the actual crime, and he has a good reason for not telling the truth, if indeed he has not done so so far.

This was the suspected murder of a woman by her boyfriend, whom she had admitted being scared of, in a country where violence against women is endemic.

It features a defendant's account which, to a lot of people here, begs many questions and has created a sense of incredulity. Maybe he will provide satisfactory answers to at least some of them, although I'm guessing he won't be able to. If he can provide a plausible account of:

what he did between the alleged shots and alleged bat bashes (7 mins plus)
why he didn't phone for help during that time
why it took him so long to bash down the toilet door
why he didn't press the panic button before taking on the 'intruder', or afterwards
why he didn't fire a warning shot
why he kept on firing
why he fired at all when he hadn't even seen the alleged assailant
why he didn't check on RS before moving into the bathroom to take on the 'intruder'
why it didn't occur to him that, even though he thought he heard the window open, he hadn't heard any noises of the 'intruder' entering the bathroom
why it never occurred to him that it could have been RS in the bathroom/toilet (until he'd shot her)
why he claimed RS was still alive over 9 mins after he says he shot her

then maybe I might believe him.

 

[james83]

If OP thought RS was alive when he found her, his actions, which delayed medical help arriving asap, make sense only if he wanted her dead imo.

Wouldn't you call the Estate manager if you found your partner "Slumped over but alive", that's the normal thing to do right?. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[steveml]

Is anyone aware of any burglar ever locking themselves in a toilet cubicle, so they are totally cornered? Makes no sense at all.

OP wouldn't be aware if the door was locked or unlocked.

 

[Zinn]

I do wonder why the language about the locked bedroom door has been removed.

Is it possible the bedroom and bathroom key are on the same key ring? The photo of the bathroom key isn't clear enough for me to see how many keys are attached. If both keys are on the same ring, I can see how he would feel trapped in the bedroom if he knew Reeva had locked herself inside the toilet room with both keys. But if he didn't know the bedroom key was locked in the toilet area, why would he feel trapped? Wouldn't he have access to the key?

Also wondering if perhaps the language about the locked door was removed as it was decided it was best to avoid scrutiny of the bedroom door, given the damage shown in photos.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[delilah]

OP wouldn't be aware if the door was locked or unlocked.

OK, fair point. Is anyone aware of a burglar hiding in the toilet behind a closed door, so that they are cornered with no means of escape?

 

[strydohj]

Is anyone aware of any burglar ever locking themselves in a toilet cubicle, so they are totally cornered? Makes no sense at all.

Maybe if he hears someone screams "get out of my house" like women and mistake the voice for that of his mother in law... Must...go....now....:hills:

 

[delilah]

Maybe if he hears someone screams "get out of my house" like women and mistake the voice for that of his mother in law... Must...go....now....:hills:

This is no place for misogyny, really. Mother-in-law jokes went out of 'fashion' in the 70s.

 

[DebinGA]

Also, as someone else posted earlier, how come he was blind on the way to the bathroom and couldn't see Reeva, yet on the way back, by which time he still hadn't switched on the lights - his eyesight was miraculously restored and he could suddenly 'see' Reeva wasn't there? The guy has a screw loose if he seriously expects anyone to buy this load of absolute tripe.

... snipped and BBM for relevance ...

I think Roux's ace in the hole, ready to be played only if needed, is "When Oscar rammed that pier, er I mean floating log, in 2009 he sustained serious brain injury that he has valiantly tried to keep hidden until now." Then he'll use that to excuse all kinds of OP reckless and out-of-control behavior, including his penchant for screaming and bullying others:

http://synapse.org.au/get-the-facts/domestic-violence-and-brain-injury-fact-sheet.aspx

 

[james83]

But if the intruder was stationary to the right of the door inside the cubicle it would not have been a safe assumption. He did not shoot randomly to cover all corners of the toilet. Look more like it was aimed to the left towards the toilet. So why focus on one specific area of the toilet and and then infer after 4 shots that you are sorted?

That's a great point, you would think if Oscar was in this out of control, fearful kill mode that we are being lead to believe he was in, he would have totally have emptied his gun, that's something else that doesn't ring true.

 

[Gryffindor]

For all we know, he only tried to 'render' assistance when Dr Stipp turned up unannounced. And seeing as OP was allegedly on his way out to the hospital with Reeva, why did he suddenly decide to stop and 'render' assistance? Why not 'render' this assistance when he pulled her out of the toilet? So he's carrying Reeva downstairs and he's on his way to hospital, when he suddenly decides to try and resuscitate her... losing more time in getting her medical help from professionals?

I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived.

A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived.
Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could.

Also, as someone else posted earlier, how come he was blind on the way to the bathroom and couldn't see Reeva, yet on the way back, by which time he still hadn't switched on the lights - his eyesight was miraculously restored and he could suddenly 'see' Reeva wasn't there? The guy has a screw loose if he seriously expects anyone to buy this load of absolute tripe.

Hi Soozieqtips, that was me who forwarded the not noticing, then suddenly noticing Reeva, in the exact same dark conditions, in the exact same room.

Oooh another brain wave coming . . Hold tight ;-)

Oscar would have been as well shouting the words, "Where are you Reeva?" Problem solved.

After all, he did allegedly shout, "Reeva phone the police/get out of my house!" (I don't believe this was to an alleged intruder IMO.)

So if he was revealing his location anyway, he'd have been better served shouting, "Where are you Reeva?"

 

[steveml]

This is no place for misogyny, really. Mother-in-law jokes went out of 'fashion' in the 70s.

Agreed. Some of this stuff isn't even joke-worthy yet people award themselves with multiple smilies.

Ah well...

 

[james83]

Or on what basis did he reason that go peeking around the corners in the bathroom would give him a defensive advantage comparing to stay put behind the bed in the dark bedroom and take pot shots at them when they enter the bedroom to come for the watches. Except if he was concerned that they would steal all the soap in the bathroom and leave again through the window. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Exactly, he had the huge advantage of knowing where the "intruder" was, the "intruder" would have presumed the home owners were asleep and walked right into Oscar's path.
Instead Oscar goes towards the "intruder" shouting his head off, if there was a real armed intruder what Oscar did was pretty much suicide.

 

[steveml]

OK, fair point. Is anyone aware of a burglar hiding in the toilet behind a closed door, so that they are cornered with no means of escape?

You got me :thumb:

I can only think he was presuming someone got in through the main window, and then hid in there waiting. OP's the man to answer what was going through his mind at the time.

 

[steveml]

I do wonder why the language about the locked bedroom door has been removed.

Is it possible the bedroom and bathroom key are on the same key ring? The photo of the bathroom key isn't clear enough for me to see how many keys are attached. If both keys are on the same ring, I can see how he would feel trapped in the bedroom if he knew Reeva had locked herself inside the toilet room with both keys. But if he didn't know the bedroom key was locked in the toilet area, why would he feel trapped? Wouldn't he have access to the key?

Also wondering if perhaps the language about the locked door was removed as it was decided it was best to avoid scrutiny of the bedroom door, given the damage shown in photos.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

What language is it that's been removed Zinn?

I may have missed something here.

 

[Viper]

Agreed. Some of this stuff isn't even joke-worthy yet people award themselves with multiple smilies.

Ah well...

And still others mock the seriousness of the crime / murder by inserting a gingerbread man as the killer in a diagram of the crime scene. :facepalm:

 

[steveml]

We've also another key missing at the moment. One that fits either the back door or side door was not returned. SAPS have been a bit shoddy in this case to say the least.

 

[steveml]

And still others mock the seriousness of the crime / murder by inserting a gingerbread man as the killer in a diagram of the crime scene. :facepalm:

The idea was to grab attention. Thanks for confirmation.

 

[DebinGA]

You got me :thumb:

I can only think he was presuming someone got in through the main window, and then hid in there waiting. OP's the man to answer what was going through his mind at the time.

Why didn't OP fear someone hiding in the blind, back left corner of the shower? Maybe that's why Roux added "I heard movement in the toilet" to trial affi.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...61440452847/A-plan-of-Oscar-Pistorius-010.jpg