Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[nastasya]

The story about breaking the bedroom door is absurd. According to the killer, here's what happened:

• He shoots Reeva in the head (start clock time = 0:00)
• He breaks down door (time = 5:00)
• He sits with Reeva for some time (time = 6:00)
• He tries using Reeva's phone. It's locked. (time = 6:30)
• He can't pick her up so he calls Stander. (time = 7:00)
• He calls Netcare and stays on the line for over a minute. (time = 8:00)
• He calls his voicemail. He calls Baba.
• Baba calls him back, "Everything's fine" (time = 9:00)
• He decides to make a trip to the front door without Reeva. (time = 9:30)
• He opens the front door and goes back upstairs.
• He finds one side of the double bedroom doors is open, the other closed. (time = 10:00)

NOW, approximately 10 minutes after shooting Reeva, and knowing she's not breathing, instead of going directly back into the bathroom to pick her up, he does what?

He decides he's going to BREAK THROUGH the closed left bedroom door, into the bedroom instead of just using the open door, or instead of releasing the latch.

He doesn't have time to think, but he can anticipate it will be difficult carrying Reeva's lifeless body through the single open bedroom door so he runs through the door that's closed and bolted to the floor.

These are also the doors with the hole shot through the center, the damaged base, and the damaged area near the locking mechanism.

Does anybody seriously believe this is what happened???? Why???

 

[ShadyLady]

It's ironic that OP described Nel's persistence in asking him the whereabouts of the hair clippers, types of plugs used in which sockets etc as "insignificant" yesterday. Yet it's those tiny little details which neither OP nor his DT noticed that are turning out to be very significant indeed!

It's hard for me to imagine OP knowingly killing Reeva from what we know so far, but it's impossible for me to believe his intruder tale peppered with proven lies. So something RS did/said enraged him, and he reacted in a way he couldn't take back and she couldn't forget. Their "relationship" died instantly, and it became a "It's her or me" scenario in his selfish, narcissistic little mind ... as she couldn't be left to tell the tale imo.

Also, I found interesting that after the first bullet till he knocked down the door he claimed took him 5 minutes...a lot of time. IMO

Enough for her to bleed out....or at least be close to the end.

 

[Gryffindor]

What's the maximum and minimum Oscar could get in sentencing?

 

[rachael123]

Well I'm not sure either. I think there's nothing more though.

If she was on facebook the i-pad would light up and show a message.It was Valentine's Day and maybe it lit up from an old boyfriend.It was charging and would be easy to see.The whole thing lights up so I put it in another room when I go to bed.What if he saw an old boyfriend saying he loved her.Or maybe she sent facebook message to old boyfriend saying I love you while she was eating cake and he messaged back and OP saw it.Big fight.

 

[BritsKate]

Well I totally disagree that it's been proved that the fans were never on the balcony (or partially on the balcony or whatever). Nor do I think Nel proved that the fans couldnt have both been plugged in. Not at all. He's obviously trying to suggest that but he hasn't made his point at all.

But I'll say again, I don't think there's any way for the state to get around the evidence that the gunshots were at 3:00- 3:10, at which time Reeva died and could not have been the one screaming, and the cricket bat hit the door at 3:17. That's hard evidence that cannot and has not been explained by the state. No one who believes Oscar is guilty will even come close to addressing this - choosing instead to dismiss this and conclude that the witnesses who heard "a woman" screaming were all correct, despite the impossibility.

By his own testimony he fired the shots at 3:12. That leaves 12 minutes they may have heard screaming if one believes Oscar's version of events - allowing for his estimation of time he sat on the floor holding Reeva, who wasn't breathing, until he realized she was.

Personally, I don't buy it. I believe the banging witnesses heard was Pistorius beating on the door - bat or not - and the shots were the second group of bangs.

JMO

 

[minor4th]

I mainly find it difficult to accept because I really don't believe the remorse is for Reeva at all. Her death was a mistake or an accident so how can he feel remorse about something he doesn't feel he's to blame for? His remorse is for the life and lifestyle he may have to give up.

I do think he thinks he is to blame. He killed her. Why wouldn't he feel remorse about that?

 

[Gryffindor]

I got the impression the closest neighbours won't be called by DT as Roux summarised elements from their statements. Is that right?

 

[steveml]

Steve, what's your hunch on what occurred, thus far, with evidence and testimonies presented to date?

Thank you

I still feel the state haven't built a strong enough case for the argument and intention to kill Reeva scenario. I expected a lot more. The evidence on it's own without witness statements is quite poor and I don't think it will take much for the DT to rebut most of it, or at least provide the Judge with substantial doubt.

A great deal will depend on the male/female screaming/shouting voices of course, but I'm not even sure this goes against OP.

If we take just the prosecutions own evidence regarding screaming it seems extremely unlikely that it could have been Reeva.
If we look at the timeline of shots then screams/shouts then cricket bat, again OP's testimony fits.
You've got quite a big problem if you're prosecuting and your own witnesses statements don't match the timeline your claiming.

I can see a reduced charge at the moment, but this could change as I really don't know what to expect from OP. I'll probably have a better guess in a few days.

:smile:

 

[rachael123]

Also he made a big point about sleeping on the other side.If he slept on the side by the window he would have only to look down-as both i-pads were charging and see her messages.

If she was on facebook the i-pad would light up and show a message.It was Valentine's Day and maybe it lit up from an old boyfriend.It was charging and would be easy to see.The whole thing lights up so I put it in another room when I go to bed.What if he saw an old boyfriend saying he loved her.Or maybe she sent facebook message to old boyfriend saying I love you while she was eating cake and he messaged back and OP saw it.Big fight.

 

[minor4th]

By his own testimony he fired the shots at 3:12. That leaves 12 minutes they may have heard screaming if one believes Oscar's version of events - allowing for his estimation of time he sat on the floor holding Reeva, who wasn't breathing, until he realized she was.

Personally, I don't buy it. I believe the banging witnesses heard was Pistorius beating on the door - bat or not - and the shots were the second group of bangs.

JMO

Ok so whether it was 3:10 or 3:12 when he fired the shots - that would have ended Reeva's screaming, so the witnesses could not have heard a "woman screaming" between 3:12 (or whatever time the actual shots were) and 3:17 when all the witnesses heard the cricket bat hitting the door.

How are you coming up with 12 minutes the witnesses could have heard Reeva screaming?

 

[minor4th]

I don't think it matters that much. There could have easily been an argument between them when OP woke up at 3am. Maybe he was angry that she left the balcony doors open all night. So he threw her covers off and scolded her. She sits up, half asleep and argues back. Things get ugly, and she insults him. she runs to the bathroom, grabbing her cell. They argue through the door, him demanding that she leaves his home. 'GET OUT" he screams. His anger escalates so he decides to kick the door, then grabs his gun to scare her. She threatens to call the cops, and he cannot allow her to do so. He shoots in a rage.

ALL OF THAT WOULD FIT INTO THE TIME PUT FORTH BY THE DT

That could have happened but there's no evidence of it. And it ignores the fact that the ear witnesses couldnt have heard Reeva screaming as they testified.

 

[Gryffindor]

Also he made a big point about sleeping on the other side.If he slept on the side by the window he would have only to look down-as both i-pads were charging and see her messages.

They went through everything on all devices. If there'd between anything suspicious the PT would have already entered it, I'm sure.

 

[rachael123]

Getting an "I love You"is not suspicious.

They went through everything on all devices. If there'd between anything suspicious the PT would have already entered it, I'm sure.

 

[kaos]

I found his attention to certain things that he thinks are important fascinating. He corrected Nel at one point about the numbering of the photos and must have poured over every single one trying to figure what could fit with his story. What he might be questioned about and what things he could attribute to 'tampering'.

I usually dismiss a man's attention to detail (really sorry for that after Nel's CE now) when it comes to the household as there are things men just don't notice that a woman would.

I'd know where every socket was in each room (mainly due to having to find one for the vaccuum cleaner), I'd notice stuff on the floor because I'd usually be the one to have to pick it up, I'd know which plug went into which socket as people tend to be habitual about what devices go where in each room.

 

[BritsKate]

Do you think his 'dream team' of lawyers are not on the ball? Or he's shooting his mouth off a bit too much on the stand? I'm starting to suspect a bit of both!

Really, I think its the latter. Roux has a really strong reputation. I believe he tried to prep Oscar to the best of his ability - perhaps too much so. But no attorney worth their fee is ever going to endorse their client making spontaneous admissions from the dock.

I'm quite certain he's been cautioned repeatedly now to give succinct answers without elaborating. He just can't seem to help but try to foresee where the State is going to go. It's destroying his case - and his best shot at mitigating murder is through his testimony.

JMO

 

[lisasalinger]

The story about breaking the bedroom door is absurd. According to the killer, here's what happened:

Snipped for space...

I'm trying to find a picture online of what these wheelchair accessible double doors look like. I'm not sure I understand completely what he was trying to explain.

Of course, I've seen the crime scene photos of the door(s) but they don't show them as a whole, just zoomed in areas of damage.

If anybody can help me, that would be great. Thx!

 

[Gryffindor]

Getting an "I love You"is not suspicious.

They haven't found ANYTHING relevant. That's fact.

 

[katydid23]

That could have happened but there's no evidence of it. And it ignores the fact that the ear witnesses couldnt have heard Reeva screaming as they testified.

But OP has already said that he was screaming and crying really loud for awhile. So the witnesses were correct about hearing screaming.

 

[lalamaria]

If she was on facebook the i-pad would light up and show a message.It was Valentine's Day and maybe it lit up from an old boyfriend.It was charging and would be easy to see.The whole thing lights up so I put it in another room when I go to bed.What if he saw an old boyfriend saying he loved her.Or maybe she sent facebook message to old boyfriend saying I love you while she was eating cake and he messaged back and OP saw it.Big fight.

I've been thinking something like this definitely is highly possible!

 

[ShadyLady]

Snipped for space...

I'm trying to find a picture online of what these wheelchair accessible double doors look like. I'm not sure I understand completely what he was trying to explain.

Of course, I've seen the crime scene photos of the door(s) but they don't show them as a whole, just zoomed in areas of damage.

If anybody can help me, that would be great. Thx!

I think the whole door testimony was to explain the damage on the bedroom door....for all we know OP was chasing her into the bedroom and he broke out the door in a rage. imo