Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[jay-jay]

This morning when listening to beginning testimony, there was a part where Oscar lost the whine and kind of had an attitude (which is why I think Nel is CEing like this). It was about 20/30 minutes in.. Then I had to stop watching the trial. Did anyone notice this, or/and did anyone notice Oscar lose the little boy whine way of speaking throughout any of the rest of the testimony? Thanks.

I did .. I commented on it fairly on in this thread .. and then I posted again to say he'd gone back to normal again fairly quickly ..

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 22

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 22

.. just checked the time on those posts .. I think mine must've been another occasion an hour or so later when he did this again!

 

[Cherwell]

Oscar has PROVEN to me in the last three days that he is a liar and a manipulator. I believe his intruder story as much as I believe that the .38 Special ammunition is his Dad's... who he hasn't spoken to in years... but who has the combination and access to his safe, and obviously a key to his house. That makes sense.

And who lives hundreds of miles away, or so I understand.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I wish I knew what Nel was trying to get at with the fans. My best guess is he was somehow trying to show that Oscar never really got up to move fans in - that this was just a fabrication by OP to explain away what really happened. If that was his intent, he didn't quite get there IMO.

No one has brought up Reeva's clothing and that is amazing to me! I assume it's not really an issue and that's why neither side has discussed it.

It was mentioned as being important in one document either bail or indictment ,can't remember which now so I wouldn't be surprised if it is still mentioned at some point .
It has always seemed odd to me that a young woman would not have worn something nicer whilst sleeping over with her boyfriend on the eve of Valentines which is why I feel they maybe never even went to bed that night .
The truth might never be heard unless off course he does crack under further pressure from Nel .

 

[jay-jay]

But OP was fine with her having coffee with her ex........that's why he called her twice I'm sure.

.. absolutely .. he was *not* happy, was he ...??!

 

[Britlaws]

A quick relevant post on the comparisons of this case to Rude Visagie... I am convinced that they chose not to actually prosecute him, because if they did, they could not avoid a murder conviction and a mandatory sentence, which would have caused uproar given the huge public support he had within his community and the fact that this was his daughter he had killed. There was no possibility of putative self defence, as his daughter was driving the car away from the house, so no imminent danger to him or his family in the house. He fired the gun directly at the driver of the car, so intended to hit who he thought was driving, or was at least reckless as to hitting him/her, and they did in fact die (although he didn't know it was his daughter of course).

OP and RS had been dating for barely 3 months, so not the same kind of relationship. IMO murder has been established in OP's case, and its just the self defence that is at issue - and OP is stuffing his chances at that at the moment.

 

[lisasalinger]

The fans are hugely relevant to the story and I think Nel did a great job making some points.

1. Oscar's bail affidavit was not accurate. He did not go OUT on to the balcony to get them. The only portion of the fan that was ever outside was one leg. He can try to blame his attorneys all he wants but the fact of the matter is that it was his story. He claimed he did not see Reeva get up to go to the bathroom. How the flip is that possible if he is standing right there in the room (not out on the balcony). It's a huge part of the story.

2. Oscar made the claim in his plea statement that the scene was tampered with by police. So Nel MUST test his claim here. Some people may be bored at the level of detail in this testimony, but again, it's Oscar's story and Nel is testing it. There was no possible way to plug in both fans at that extension cord. Oscar said on the stand they were both plugged in there and they were both on. He is lying. The fans were never there in the door, they weren't both plugged in, they weren't both on, he never had to get up at 3am to bring them in and all that other nonsense. Oscar's only way to explain the fans now is that the police clearly moved them. Blame the cops. Even though when they were on the scene immediately after the crime they had no clue what Oscar's story was going to be.

The fans are important. Nel did his job here and I have no doubt that the Judge recognized what he was doing.

 

[jay-jay]

guess OP didn't teach his friend not to chew gum when on camera...I don't know which of his buddies that guy is but he looks really cocky.

I noticed the woman (usually in leopard print) with blonde hair next to June Steenkamp is often chewing gum .. I wonder if she is doing it to annoy OP! .. oooh, and wearing leopard print too .. to remind him of Reeva in her leopard print dress that she asked if it was ok to wear to that event! I'm not sure who she is but I've been watching the incredulous expression on her face during the trial today and yesterday.

 

[Lyra500]

The Tasha incident is conclusive proof that he's a liar and will not take responsibility for anything. Even when faced with the proof, his instinct is to deny - or blame - or accuse others of lying. How anyone can still feel he's a credible witness after that outrageous porky is beyond me. He even says he didn't say things 2 minutes after he just said them!
I like how Nel reminds him of this.

Giving evidence, OP has come across as selfish, self obsessed, immature, thoughtless, deceitful, whiny, irritated and insincere. He has no credibility whatsoever. None. Looking forward to tomorrow's evidence to see what else he forgets.

BIB - i couldn't agree more. Brilliantly put.

I find it completely bemusing that anyone could still regard him as a credible witness or quote his versions of events as if they were facts.

 

[soozieqtips]

The fans are hugely relevant to the story and I think Nel did a great job making some points.

1. Oscar's bail affidavit was not accurate. He did not go OUT on to the balcony to get them. The only portion of the fan that was ever outside was one leg. He can try to blame his attorneys all he wants but the fact of the matter is that it was his story. He claimed he did not see Reeva get up to go to the bathroom. How the flip is that possible if he is standing right there in the room (not out on the balcony). It's a huge part of the story.

2. Oscar made the claim in his plea statement that the scene was tampered with by police. So Nel MUST test his claim here. Some people may be bored at the level of detail in this testimony, but again, it's Oscar's story and Nel is testing it. There was no possible way to plug in both fans at that extension cord. Oscar said on the stand they were both plugged in there and they were both on. He is lying. The fans were never there in the door, they weren't both plugged in, they weren't both on, he never had to get up at 3am to bring them in and all that other nonsense. Oscar's only way to explain the fans now is that the police clearly moved them. Blame the cops. Even though when they were on the scene immediately after the crime they had no clue what Oscar's story was going to be.

The fans are important. Nel did his job here and I have no doubt that the Judge recognized what he was doing.

And the police were nice enough to open his curtains wider and plonk his duvet on the floor.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

A quick relevant post on the comparisons of this case to Rude Visagie... I am convinced that they chose not to actually prosecute him, because if they did, they could not avoid a murder conviction and a mandatory sentence, which would have caused uproar given the huge public support he had within his community and the fact that this was his daughter he had killed. There was no possibility of putative self defence, as his daughter was driving the car away from the house, so no imminent danger to him or his family in the house. He fired the gun directly at the driver of the car, so intended to hit who he thought was driving, or was at least reckless as to hitting him/her, and they did in fact die (although he didn't know it was his daughter of course).

OP and RS had been dating for barely 3 months, so not the same kind of relationship. IMO murder has been established in OP's case, and its just the self defence that is at issue - and OP is stuffing his chances at that at the moment.

Yes I agree and was wondering this afternoon if that was why Nel sought to have it on record that OP had not told Reeva that he loved her I felt his behaviour and statement were trying to create an image that he had been punished enough .

 

[supernovaNic]

I did .. I commented on it fairly on in this thread .. and then I posted again to say he'd gone back to normal again fairly quickly ..

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 22

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 22

.. just checked the time on those posts .. I think mine must've been another occasion an hour or so later when he did this again!

Thanks. Yeah, you describe it perfectly !

 

[lisasalinger]

And the police were nice enough to open his curtains wider and plonk his duvet on the floor.

Let's not forget that it's HIS story that Reeva was sleeping on the right closest to the doors. So he got up from bed on his stumps, had to feel his way around the bed, he's standing right there at the door moving fans and Reeva would have been right there maybe a foot away from him. And he didn't see her get up??

Nel asked him... how the heck did she got out of bed then? Paraphrasing here, but he says... uh, maybe she got out from my side on the left.

It is ridiculously obvious to me that he is twisting and weaving as he goes along. The reason he can't make all the pieces fit is because it's a LIE.

I see this so clearly that I simply cannot fathom how anybody can believe him. I like literally have my jaw on the floor that anybody believes him.

 

[Britlaws]

Yes I agree and was wondering this afternoon if that was why Nel sought to have it on record that OP had not told Reeva that he loved her I felt his behaviour and statement were trying to create an image that he had been punished enough .

That's what he wants everyone to believe but you cannot compare a barely 3 month relationship with father and daughter, and many, like me, have reservations with the decision not to prosecute in this case, as it sets precedents that people like OP will seek to rely on.

ETA in RV's case, that could have been someone elses son/daughter

 

[lisasalinger]

Let's not forget that it's HIS story that Reeva was sleeping on the right closest to the doors. So he got up from bed on his stumps, had to feel his way around the bed, he's standing right there at the door moving fans and Reeva would have been right there maybe a foot away from him. And he didn't see her get up??

Nel asked him... how the heck did she got out of bed then? Paraphrasing here, but he says... uh, maybe she got out from my side on the left.

It is ridiculously obvious to me that he is twisting and weaving as he goes along. The reason he can't make all the pieces fit is because it's a LIE.

I see this so clearly that I simply cannot fathom how anybody can believe him. I like literally have my jaw on the floor that anybody believes him.

And while she is maneuvering out the left side of the bed in the pitch dark, in total silence, she masterfully grabs her cell phone and takes it in to the dark and locked toilet room with her.

I plead with everybody to use their common sense...

A woman who is in a locked and dark toilet room at 3am with her cell phone is not there to play Words with Friends.

 

[Gavel Rash]

My oh my such lies over lies over lies!

I can't believe how his family is feeling as they hear his lies!

By the way, VanRensburgs testimony states......
'The trail of blood continued up the staircase, past a yoga mat -- '

Yet in his affidavit Oscar said Steenkamp was doing yoga in the bedroom in front of him.

Why would he say that? Is this another lie?

Lets just say he said yoga was in his bedroom as he is trying to discredit Merwes statement that says she heard an argument and Oscars plea that makes a point of saying she could not possibly have heard an argument from his bedroom from the position of her bedroom.

Also keeping his gun in one up mode may allow for the gap in between the 4 shots.
Trigger pull Bang...then pause for reload..bang, bang, bang.

Sorry I am unsure how guns actually work so if someone can explain why you leave a bullet in the chamber and what happens to reload may help me think this through.

 

[lonetraveler]

One thing I picked up on is Angry Oscar doesn't whine. I hope Nel keeps him angry. Gawd that whine is annoying.

Yep, I have a pet peeve about whinning, I hate it. I want to ask him if he "wants some cheese with that whine".

 

[Gryffindor]

And while she is maneuvering out the left side of the bed in the pitch dark, in total silence, she masterfully grabs her cell phone and takes it in to the dark and locked toilet room with her.

I plead with everybody to use their common sense...

A woman who is in a locked and dark toilet room at 3am with her cell phone is not there to play Words with Friends.

Hi Lisa. Why do you think she didn't make a call then and even just let it run if she couldn't speak? Cheers

 

[aa9511]

I think Reeva last used her phone at 8.00pm and it was still connected to the Internet after the shooting .
Not sure about the iPads . I am still looking for confirmation in testimony that they were both OP's .
If one was Reeva's and they were synced accidentally there could have been something on there that caused an argument.
If they are OP's then it is odd that Reeva didn't have one with her or at home .
And if they were both his why did they end up on the floor at the right side of the bed . One of them looked like it may have been thrown or dropped.

Thank you so much for your response!

As far as Reeva's phone, I wonder if they determined what time she stopped using any application on it. Because Oscar contends that she was looking at pictures when he was "going to sleep." He said that she was playing with her phone when he went to sleep, IIRC. And then he says that when he awoke, she was still up. So that makes me think he is suggesting that she was still "playing with her phone" when he woke up. I don't think he ever said that outright - IIRC he didn't really say what she was actually doing when he woke up, just that she said something like "can't sleep Baba?" I guess he can't claim to say he knew what she was doing b/c that would imply that he saw her for longer than he says he did (when he went to get the fans). He says he never actually looked at her, oh except today he said he saw how the duvet was placed on her. But that was his own *mistake* getting all his lies and stories mixed up.

Then there is the question of, whether or not Oscar actually went to sleep or not. And I would think his Ipad activity would be some indication as to that. For example, if there is Ipad activity after his claimed sleep time, well then just more evidence he's lying. In contrast, if there is no Ipad activity, at least we can rule out that he was on his Ipad during his supposed sleeping.

JMO.

 

[liesbeth]

Not sure on that but I do know from Dr Stipp's testimony that OP went upstairs on his own before the paramedics arrived which seems to contradict his own witness testimony .
He may have gone upstairs for a second time when the paramedics arrived to collect the bag .
I have no doubt we will be hearing more about this.

Thank you. I found a summary of day 4 that says Dr. Stipp left after the paramedics arrived. He was outside with Mr Stander when he saw OP going upstairs. This was before the medics arrived.

I will look at the video to confirm later tonight. Thanks again.

 

[Gryffindor]

Does "one up" mean one bullet in the chamber? But he fired 4 shots?