Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[lisasalinger]

Do they not do a re-cross there?

I could be wrong on this, but no they can not do a full re-cross. If there are one or two items that must be clarified for the record, then I believe they can do that.

If I am wrong on this anybody, please correct me.

 

[G.bng]

I don't know. To me a disappointing end. I really cannot see that the PT has set a firm case for OP intentionally murdering Reeva on the basis of the circumstantial evidence presented, but yes I do think there has been a very good case that OP intentionally shot at an intruder, by itself a verdict of murder. I hope in the final submission the State puts this option forward firmly because I am not 100% sure the judge can just pick this option out of the hat if the State doesn't first plead for her to make such a finding, although as "error in persona" is in the charging doc it could be she does have that finding open to her.

It will be interesting is to see how the judge reasons the case when her judgement is out.

BREAKING NEWS: Sky has is reporting that OP has been called to talk with his DT and that it could be they are discussing a change of plea, i.e. culpable homicide which the PT has absolutely proven.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I'm thinking the same .. I think they have enough stuff on him now .. and for all we know, the judge may even have things like confirmation/non-confirmation of what OP says of his initial call to NetCare by way of a recording, things like that, which Nel may have decided not to bring up because he doesn't want OP to have to confess/change his plea to guilty midway through the trial .. I think that Nel wants to take the trial as far as it can, and have the chance to bring in all possible witnesses because I think they want to try and establish what did actually happen that evening, and not just have OP say 'ok, knowingly shot Reeva' because that wouldn't throw any light on the events leading up to her being killed, just that he knowingly did it and will then clam up about the motive/how he went about killing her (how far in advance he had planned her killing .. i.e. whether it was spur of the moment, or planned in advance by even up to half an hour, or a day or more in advance) .. and I think that they are actually trying to establish all that as well, so they don't want him to confess just yet and that is the reason why they've not brought in some of the things which would actually nail it.

Hopefully Nel has done enough. The judge certainly doesn't miss much if anything,have found her to be more astute than either of the advocates .

Now he can finally talk to his defence team again I would love to be a fly on the wall for that and know what their thoughts are on his testimony .
I definitely thought Nel would go on with cross for longer .

 

[jay-jay]

Well I agree to some extent.
And Oscar in his Oscar-Speak tripped himself up almost on his own.

And yes we MAY here a great close by Nel (or we may not).

It's jsut that overall while Nel was good, it seemed that several times --like the 31 second pause--Nel eased up just when he had him on the verge.
And again I think numerous good Qs were never put to him.

I would lke to compare Nel going after Selebi was it for 2 weeks and compare that with here. But I won't take the time.

So I await Nel's close, but I thought today was dubious and on average some other things were too.

I think there was good reason for that .. he doesn't want him to have to confess yet.

 

[G.bng]

Op's cross examination by the state is over, he is now free to seek legal advice from his attorneys.

You sure OP's cross is over because Nel can re-cross after Roux ?

Sky also were discussing with an expert that it may be defence called OP for discussions about a change of plea to guilty on culpable homicide... makes sense because Nel has proved CH BARD.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I trust Nel and believe he has very good reasons for ending it the way he has. It will become clear later on, IMO.

 

[BritsKate]

I could be wrong on this, but no they can not do a full re-cross. If there are one or two items that must be clarified for the record, then I believe they can do that.



If I am wrong on this anybody, please correct me.

To my knowledge, they can cover the same ground the State did. I think it'll be more than 2-3 things.
They're going to want to make it very clear that putative self-defence is their only defence too.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[whiterum]

It will all be nicely tied together by Nel in the end.

OP will just change his story no matter what Nel asks him, IMO. I think Nel has already caught OP in enough inconsistances!

Exactly, Nel's cross was brilliant IMO he has shown OP's version to be nothing more than a concoction and a pack of lies. He has ended where he should end as he does not need to question further, he has heard all he needs to hear from OP's own mouth.

So no point in going any further as he knows 'My Lady' will have heard enough too and I am sure with her experience, she will be well able to spot an inconsistent liar when she sees one.

 

[Britlaws]

OP's magazine rack debacle was last critical piece Nel put in place.

It showed that EVERY step from the time he claims he woke up, to the time he dragged Reeva out of the bathroom, was a reconstructed fantasy. The magazine rack was in the pool of blood. The blood was on the wall exactly where OP said he saw the magazine rack.

His entire version(s) has been proven, from beginning to end, to be false.

Totally agree, he had her out of that toilet before doing anything for a reason, despite it being obvious that she was dead... and also wanted her downstairs as quick as possible.

 

[lisasalinger]

Totally agree with you, lisa!

I truly feel very confident that OP is going to be found guilty.

In writing my blog, I re-watch the trial every day and take tons of notes. In the process of writing about it everything becomes so incredibly clear. I can't tell you how eye opening it has been for me.

When I just sit here and watch, there are many things that I don't marinate about as much and quite frankly miss. But as soon as I dig in the next day, wow, it's like somebody opened the blinds (pun intended)

 

[Really?]

Exactly, since his ears started ringing at the opportune movement he was unable to hear Reeva's blood curling screams, for this he is gonna spend the rest of his life in prison with real hard core burglars, oh how they will love to have him as their companion.

Thanks for that giggle.

 

[asanque]

I would consider culpable homicide a fail mark for the prosecution.

That was already a given based on the evidence from OP.

They should be pushing hard for murder.

 

[nastasya]

I don't know. To me a disappointing end. I really cannot see that the PT has set a firm case for OP intentionally murdering Reeva on the basis of the circumstantial evidence presented, but yes I do think there has been a very good case that OP intentionally shot at an intruder, by itself a verdict of murder. I hope in the final submission the State puts this option forward firmly because I am not 100% sure the judge can just pick this option out of the hat if the State doesn't first plead for her to make such a finding, although as "error in persona" is in the charging doc it could be she does have that finding open to her.

It will be interesting is to see how the judge reasons the case when her judgement is out.

BREAKING NEWS: Sky has is reporting that OP has been called to talk with his DT and that it could be they are discussing a change of plea, i.e. culpable homicide which the PT has absolutely proven.

His BA was a confession to culpable homicide.

The defense is desperate now. OP buried himself. He claimed he was not shooting at an intruder in self defense. He claimed now that the gun went off on it's own.

His limitless contradictions have effectively negated his entire testimony. The state now has an irrefutable prima face case:

Dead body
Admitted killer
No reasonable explanation killing. It wasn't in self-defense. OP was very clear about that.

 

[asanque]

I truly feel very confident that OP is going to be found guilty.

In writing my blog, I re-watch the trial every day and take tons of notes. In the process of writing about it everything becomes so incredibly clear. I can't tell you how eye opening it has been for me.

When I just sit here and watch, there are many things that I don't marinate about as much and quite frankly miss. But as soon as I dig in the next day, wow, it's like somebody opened the blinds (pun intended)

When is the day 21 recap coming?

Its a great read

 

[patCee]

OP's magazine rack debacle was last critical piece Nel put in place.

It showed that EVERY step from the time he claims he woke up, to the time he dragged Reeva out of the bathroom, was a reconstructed fantasy. The magazine rack was in the pool of blood. The blood was on the wall exactly where OP said he saw the magazine rack.

His entire version(s) has been proven, from beginning to end, to be false.

Yes, and I'm hoping the abrupt end of the cross is because Nel, in his experience, believes he has done enough to make the states case.:smiliescale:

 

[LaLaw2000]

You sure OP's cross is over because Nel can re-cross after Roux ?

Sky also were discussing with an expert that it may be defence called OP for discussions about a change of plea to guilty on culpable homicide... makes sense because Nel has proved CH BARD.

BBM:

Just IMO, but I don't think OP will plead anything but not guilty!

 

[G.bng]

As for Nel requesting that the court adjourn for 2 weeks so as not to interrupt vacation plans. (which I am sure is main reason)

I am glad the Judge did not decide on the spot. I think its past time she put a stop to this nonsense and tell lawyers on both sides to get on and finish. No more days off until they are done.

Defence was in full agreement as according to them Nel had advised of the period being impossible at the start. And I thought NEL said it was to do with another case that has to take preference, and:

a) Nel as an officer of the court is not allowed to lie to the court,

b) Roux would have been fully informed of the matter it was about and know it to be true otherwise he would also be lying to the court as one of its officers

 

[Really?]

Exactly, since his ears started ringing at the opportune movement he was unable to hear Reeva's blood curling screams, for this he is gonna spend the rest of his life in prison with real hard core burglars, oh how they will love to have him as their companion.

Maybe OP's camp shouldn't be reading this forum as much, lol.

 

[lisasalinger]

Totally agree, he had her out of that toilet before doing anything for a reason, despite it being obvious that she was dead... and also wanted her downstairs as quick as possible.

He had no choice but to get her out. How horrible would that look if she was still locked in that room with 3 shots pumped in her and OP was just hanging around.

 

[atthelake]

Court in session - Roux now to examine OP