Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Interested Bystander]

Very good point and probably true!

Evidence shows that Oscar had a bad shoulder at least two days before the murder. He messaged Reeva about his trips to the physio for two weeks before the murder. He had a physio strapping on it when his photos were taken. Not in a place where he would be able to put them.

 

[Val1]

Trying to make something out of the way the Stipps' curtains are draped is extremely lame, and points to desperation IMO.

They're still trying to call Mrs. Stipp a liar... because she said she always kept her drapes pulled back in a tie... lame is being kind.

 

[kittychi]

Something that struck me from earlier on in the current witness's testimony, he remarked how hitting the door with cricket bat gave him a very sore arm, could this be how Pistorius really injured his shoulder?, and didn't actually sleep on the left as claimed.

IIRC it was confirmed about his shoulder pain because he was wearing some type of pain patch in a photo (sorry I don't know where I remember that from!) and also he was getting physical therapy for the shoulder.

...that doesn't mean he didn't actually sleep on the left though!

(I still don't think they ever slept that night.)

 

[Interested Bystander]

Trying to make something out of the way the Stipps' curtains are draped is extremely lame, and points to desperation IMO.

Pretty desperate IMO. As I said earlier, they now have new neighbours closer to them and who would leave their bedroom curtains draped open if they were in the bedroom when they have near neighbours who would be able to see in.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I know what you mean and know the evidence and I sincerely hope you're right and my concerns are wrong. Not because I think OP premeditatedly killed Reeva, because I have tended more towards the idea that he shot at what he recklessly concluded was an intruder because my view has always been that even an intruder has rights and that it is morally wrong to shoot without any prior warning at an intruder cornered in a tiny toilet. I think CH proven and probably murder too of an intruder... but can the judge make the jump from Reeva to intruder without the PT making any argument for it, that is my worry.
JMO

in 'covering' he has created another problem

he went to sleep at 10pm ish. awoke at 3am ish.
approximately 5 hours asleep

his only words to reeva are ??
the only words from her [according to him] are 'can't you sleep'.

then he heard the bathroom window open...

how did he not know that his sister had not popped around?
or a friend?
or a friend of hers?

he has someone beside him, that he knows is awake, that he could question to verify events leading up to the time he awoke. but he doesn't ask her.

 

[Cherwell]

They're still trying to call Mrs. Stipp a liar... because she said she always kept her drapes pulled back in a tie... lame is being kind.

Maybe she pulled the curtains because of the dodgy beardy bloke hanging around outside taking photographs ..... :floorlaugh:

 

[G.bng]

Something that struck me from earlier on in the current witness's testimony, he remarked how hitting the door with cricket bat gave him a very sore arm, could this be how Pistorius really injured his shoulder?, and didn't actually sleep on the left as claimed.

IIRC the plaster (or covering or whatever it is they use) for the back injury was already in place on OP at the time because iirc it figures in at least one of the police photos taken at the scene and it's existence was pointed out by either Roux or Nel to the photographer who confirmed this ?

Or have I dreamt all this ?

 

[jay-jay]

Good point made on Oscar radio. Why is the expert only using a camera re light & exposure. Why wasn't a light meter used as you'd expect an expert to use

Well, it is possible to use a camera but I would've thought an expert would use a specific tool (as you say, a light meter) for the job in hand.

 

[04009margaret]

Trying to make something out of the way the Stipps' curtains are draped is extremely lame, and points to desperation IMO.

Shows how important their testimony really is

 

[hetty]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

 

[jay-jay]

Something that struck me from earlier on in the current witness's testimony, he remarked how hitting the door with cricket bat gave him a very sore arm, could this be how Pistorius really injured his shoulder?, and didn't actually sleep on the left as claimed.

I'm not sure .. didn't he say he was seeing a physio with regard to the shoulder? (unless that was all lies, too!)

 

[minor4th]

Surprising how close those sounds are, but I could tell the difference .. gunshot has a certain 'whoosh' noise to it .. maybe just that I'm used to hearing it around here from where people go shooting game. One of the witnesses said they have a military background, and I remember them saying they know a gunshot when they hear it and wouldn't confuse it with a cricket bat.

Those were both cricket bat sounds. No gunshots yet.

 

[Gryffindor]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

 

[sleuth-d-]

The 2nd sound at 180 metres was definitely a duller sound. Not possible to compare though unless they do it next to the pistol shot. No different to the Youtube test that was so discredited. Useless unless there is a comparison after lunch.

absolutely. there has to be a comparison [with gunshots] otherwise it is totally subjective.

expert witness.??


no measurements
just people standing in approximate positions in the bathroom.


who decided on the amplification level in court. turn it up! it sounds even more like a gun!!

unless the witnesses are pulled in again to listen to this sound, it doesn't confirm this is what they heard.

 

[jay-jay]

IIRC it was confirmed about his shoulder pain because he was wearing some type of pain patch in a photo (sorry I don't know where I remember that from!) and also he was getting physical therapy for the shoulder.

...that doesn't mean he didn't actually sleep on the left though!

(I still don't think they ever slept that night.)

This pain patch has been bothering me a bit .. I know of a number of people who have back probs, etc, and they have been prescribed morphine patches. I don't know, obv, what kind of patch OP had but it's something I've been wondering about .. and something which could've affected his mood/temper .. and something which either may not have shown up in tests (being in patch form as opposed to intravenous) or they discounted because it was a prescribed as opposed to recreational drug. It may not be a morphine patch, but just that they do seem to be quite commonly prescribed nowadays and widely used, so it was something which crossed my mind.

 

[Val1]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

Hmm the very reason women stay with abusive partners is because they love them, unless they've been locked up and can't leave or are so scared of the consequences of leaving that they stay and put up with it until it kills them.

Whether it will factor in for the judge, perhaps, but since OP did in fact kill RS, I think that may count more since it's his actions that are on trial, not RS's.

 

[jassy writer]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

Uh.... Reeva wasn't the one holding the gun!

Firstly, where's OSCAR'S card saying he loved her?

Secondly, if she had a present to him with a declaration of love, and he ends up being an arsehole on the night and picking a fight, it would be all the more reason for her to become upset and fight back with him and then perhaps want to leave. A lot of emotion at stake, running high!

 

[jay-jay]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

From your perspective, in what way?

 

[LaLaw2000]

Evidence shows that Oscar had a bad shoulder at least two days before the murder. He messaged Reeva about his trips to the physio for two weeks before the murder. He had a physio strapping on it when his photos were taken. Not in a place where he would be able to put them.

Thanks, I hadn't realized this.

*The time difference from where I am and the trial is in SA makes it too easy for me to doze off. It makes me wonder what else I have missed!

 

[Cherwell]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

Many of us have had the misfortune to fall for someone who was, to varying degrees, no good for us. :shakehead: uch:

I don't think the card proves anything about his attitude towards her. I may be wrong, but it sounds like the first time she has directly said that she loved him, and I had the impression (can't explain why) that she had been waiting to hear it from him first.
He doesn't appear to have got her a card at all, otherwise I'm sure we would have been shown one, or told about it.