Trial Discussion Thread #28 - 14.04.17, Day 25

[shane13]

No, because they were already on.

Among the things OP possibly had to go back upstairs (as seen by Dr Stipp) to do.

Break that light in the bathroom. Which we still do not know from both sides, just how was/is it broken.

 

[Fuskier]

Let's be clear
No Gunshots or Batshots were heard in Court


As I've said, recordings of gunshots and batshots are not the same as directly hearing those things. The recording or playback devices have many adjustable parameters to make them sound similar, if so desired.

An honest Judge will go (easier here than in the USA where the whole jury must go) to the scene of the event and/or go to where the witnesses were. Actual gunshots and bat strikes would then occur.

IMO the sounds could be 'replicated' under proper test conditions in the actual scene of the crime.The Judge and Assessors could witness same in same conditions in location. Less than this means its academic and open to wide interpretation adding to 'blurring' the sounds and therefore the evidence.

The Court needs to test what the reasonable person heard 'in situ' IMO.

The neighbours heard what they heard. I, for one, do not believe that the cricket bat and gun would sound identical. One is wood on wood wielded by human force; the other is metal on metal discharged in the heated, high powered friction of firing.

 

[TrueDetective]

When he went into the bedroom, he didn't call out her name as I recall.

Do you recall the same thing?

I was wondering why he's feeling for her instead of calling for her, [or turning on the lights].

But..he wasn't actually doing any of the above.
He was stood in the bathroom, listening. Heart pumping. And thinking. Hard.
And the lights were on.

Next stop, a cricket bat and the start of his new life as Oscar Pistorius, killer.

 

[Emz73]

When he went into the bedroom, he didn't call out her name as I recall.

Do you recall the same thing?

I was wondering why he's feeling for her instead of calling for her, [or turning on the lights].

Just maybe he's lying. You know, maybe?

 

[soozieqtips]

BIB. OP did not give a statement to the police. His attorneys asked for a continuance; that gave them time to create his Affidavit. OP sat in jail for 5 days before he went before the Magistrate for his bail hearing and presented his Affidavit through his attorneys.

BBM - Can you imagine what his police statement would have looked like if he'd made one?? He had five days to come up with his affidavit and it's still been ripped to shreds. Oh wait. That was Roux's fault for not 'interpreting' his words correctly, and the medication's fault for dulling his senses so he didn't realise that half the details in his affidavit were missing.

 

[Clutchbag]

When he went into the bedroom, he didn't call out her name as I recall.

Do you recall the same thing?

I was wondering why he's feeling for her instead of calling for her, [or turning on the lights].

I dont know if he could turn the lights on, on his stumps, was his house tailored for his disability?

I cant remember if he called her name when he went back to the bedroom after the shooting, I wish there was a typed transcript one can search through. I agree its the most normal thing to do, I will see if I can find the relevant video piece

I also remember him being asked why he didnt call out/search the house for her after the shooting,ie she may have exited via the bedroom door and he said why waste time when you know someone is in the toilet!! For all he knew it WAS intruders in the toilet and not Reeva.

Bit of a slip there maybe.Or just my own coloured guilt seeking spectacles.

 

[wb180]

Just maybe he's lying. You know, maybe?

Can't believe people still take OP word as fact after his credibility going down the drain on the stand.

 

[TrueDetective]

Among the things OP possibly had to go back upstairs (as seen by Dr Stipp) to do.

Break that light in the bathroom. Which we still do not know from both sides, just how was/is it broken.

Didn't you even read Rog's report?!
:drumroll:

 

[Really?]

It must have been the magazine rack opening the door that caused him to involuntarily shoot the gun in sheer terror.

:lol:....now that is oscar-speak. moo

 

[Emz73]

That's what I said. He asked me about an angry person and I said he looked scared, not angry, standing where he did, off to the side over by the entrance.

I agree with you.

No I mean, back up against a side wall so he's nowhere in front. That's if he had no intention of shooting anyone and you were scared.

 

[Hatfield]

This is one of the stranger aspects of the story that makes me doubt it. From whispering to her in bed to get down and call the police, to being half way down the hall and screaming to her to call the police, to getting to the bathroom and again screaming for her to call the police, to being shot, to going back to the bedroom screaming for her, to feeling his way around, not once did she respond. She was in the toilet all the time and never responded?

The devil is in the detail in this case and I reckon Gerrie Nel has got it by its slippery horns. he is so right about thingsbeing so "improbable"

Am I right??

:floorlaugh:

The whole episode according to OP fails miserably right from the beginning. When getting ready to search for intruders everyone's immediate first reaction is to shake their partner and say "Did you hear that?" Hey wake up.

Anyone would first locate their partner because of the obvious danger of mistaking your partner for the intruder. The girlfriend could have gotten up for any number of reasons in the middle of the night. Hungry, bathroom break, thirsty, etc.

It is such a common occurrence that you always assume the noise is the partner not the other way around.

His story fails right from the start.

 

[soozieqtips]

But..he wasn't actually doing any of the above.
He was stood in the bathroom, listening. Heart pumping. And thinking. Hard.
And the lights were on.

Next stop, a cricket bat and the start of his new life as Oscar Pistorius, killer.

BBM - on the plus side, he has a new life to look forward to - Oscar Pistorius, inmate.

 

[Viper]

Among the things OP possibly had to go back upstairs (as seen by Dr Stipp) to do.

Break that light in the bathroom. Which we still do not know from both sides, just how was/is it broken.

I haven't seen any evidence that the WC light was broken. OP says it was, but what are his words worth after that meltdown in the box? The Stipps say it was working and on. I'll go with what the Stipps say on this one.

 

[wb180]

BBM - on the plus side, he has a new life to look forward to - Oscar Pistorius, inmate.

Yes while in jail, he can write his trilogy because as time goes by, he will remember more of the events

 

[shane13]

IMO the sounds could be 'replicated' under proper test conditions in the actual scene of the crime.The Judge and Assessors could witness same in same conditions in location. Less than this means its academic and open to wide interpretation adding to 'blurring' the sounds and therefore the evidence.

The Court needs to test what the reasonable person heard 'in situ' IMO.

The neighbours heard what they heard. I, for one, do not believe that the cricket bat and gun would sound identical. One is wood on wood wielded by human force; the other is metal on metal discharged in the heated, high powered friction of firing.

Already stated here many, many times.
Gunshot incorprates sonic booms, and many other differences. Wish people would stop.

 

[molly333]

IMO the sounds could be 'replicated' under proper test conditions in the actual scene of the crime.The Judge and Assessors could witness same in same conditions in location. Less than this means its academic and open to wide interpretation adding to 'blurring' the sounds and therefore the evidence.

The Court needs to test what the reasonable person heard 'in situ' IMO.

The neighbours heard what they heard. I, for one, do not believe that the cricket bat and gun would sound identical. One is wood on wood wielded by human force; the other is metal on metal discharged in the heated, high powered friction of firing.

Except we already know they sound alike.

The Stipps told us they did.

 

[shane13]

I haven't seen any evidence that the WC light was broken. OP says it was, but what are his words worth after that meltdown in the box? The Stipps say it was working and on. I'll go with what the Stipps say on this one.

Dixon testified to it

 

[Feynman]

If you are scared of an intruder and were armed, why wouldn't you turn the light on?

After you shoot the intruder and back off without checking their status ( and looking for someone), why wouldn't you turn the light on?

Finally, for Reeva, if you knew your partner was awake and you were going to the toilet in a pitch black room, why wouldn't you turn either the bedroom or bathroom light on? (Especially with the Toilet light supposedly broken).

On the first question: Why give yourself away by turning the light on? The intruder doesn't know your house, but you do - like the back of your hand. Why even the playing field with the lights on?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I haven't seen any evidence that the WC light was broken. OP says it was, but what are his words worth after that meltdown in the box? The Stipps say it was working and on. I'll go with what the Stipps say on this one.

This is one of the things I haven't got round to reading about again.
I thought Dr stipp's said bathroom light on toilet no but Mrs stipp's said bathroom on and toilet fainter light but definitely on ?

 

[Fuskier]

Experts, right.

It's been pointed out more than once that Vermeulen was only referring to one specific crack which he said was preceded by a gunshot. He didn't say that all the bat marks came after the gunshots. He said it wasn't possible to draw that conclusion.

No one is denying that the bat was used after the shots to help break the door, but that does not preclude it being used to strike the door before the shots too.

BBM. I believe that is also possible, in rage. There is an 'untested' assumption that (all) bullets were fired in a series before (all) bat strikes hit the door in a series. This may not be the case.