Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[BritsKate]

But crucially they both identified it as a man's cry, it's a fact that Oscar was crying after both set's of sound's had occurred, also Dr Stipp testifed that Oscar was crying whilst he was at Oscar's house.
Agree they need More, they need to show that Oscar is capable of such a scream that was described by the ear witness's.

We're not going to get that, and if we do, it will remain highly subjective. Burger, Johnson, and the Stipps would have been the best witnesses to compare - albeit highly risky too.

Further, the fact that only one defence witness testified to hearing one bang is problematic for the defence. Four gunshots are absolutely not in dispute so clearly they did not hear the entire course of events. Ergo, they do nothing to refute a woman screaming before the bangs at all - they do bolster that Oscar was emotional after shooting Reeva dead, which was never in dispute. I believe the primary motivation of having the Standers, the social worker and neighbours testify was two-pronged. First, to suggest because he was so emotional, it can be inferred he didn't intend to kill Reeva and by extension, didn't premeditate her murder. Second, to sway public sentiment. They don't actually refute the State's evidence, or even bolster reasonable doubt, because the screams occurred before the bangs the defence witnesses never heard.

MOO

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[BritsKate]

Okay. I'd like to know what HTH stands for please!

Hope that helps.

HTH, soozie.


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[soozieqtips]

Hope that helps.

HTH, soozie.


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Ohhhh thanks!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Re OP's sentence, I console myself with imagining OP's public and private life once he's convicted of at least culpable homicide, when he's no longer "the accused" but now and forever "the negligent killer". I have no interest in hearing from OP's coddling psychologist, but I'd love to hear a qualified opinion of how an uber-narcissist like OP will react to going from golden boy to felon, and the restrictions he'll then face (like loss of right to own/use a gun)

As for the loss of right to own/use a gun, why would that stop him. So long as he doesn't get pulled up by the cops, I'm positive he'd still carry one. Just throw it out the window if he's alone in his car or pass it to a friend, whatever. Even if he did get caught with one, "No, it's not my gun", rah, rah, rah.

From a superstar to a shooting star also known as a fallen star.

 

[soozieqtips]

IIRC OP added the bizarre detail of waking up, and before his eyes were open, scrubbing his face as he walked to retrieve the fans, and then always facing away from the bed until the moment he went for the gun. Absurd.

Wasn't there also something to add to the bizzarity (made that up in case the grammar police are out on patrol!) about him holding his face... but not holding it until he got out of bed?

 

[jay-jay]

oh Oscar aimed that gun.. this was no random firing.. he had an almost 100% strike rate. each shot was fatal, except the ricochet one and that was a fluke. his aim was quite good. .. it was one of those stunning moments in the trial , Oscar on the stand, when Nel drops his little gem that the gunshots were well aimed, well grouped, and Oscar, still full of it , says, I kid you not. ... 'oh. it wasn't that good of a grouping'..

he was serious, too.

Yup .. I was really sickened by what he said and how he said it.

 

[BritsKate]

As for the loss of right to own/use a gun, why would that stop him. So long as he doesn't get pulled up by the cops, I'm positive he'd still carry one. Just throw it out the window if he's alone in his car or pass it to a friend, whatever. Even if he did get caught with one, "No, it's not my gun", rah, rah, rah.



From a superstar to a shooting star also known as a fallen star.

My ex still carried a gun despite being prohibited from doing so, so I agree with you. Making threats with it actually landed him in jail for a year while police investigated and pressed charges that sent him to prison for 8 years. (Adding that because I've seen it suggested that Oscar won't be allowed out on appeal for murder if convicted of the firearm charges. I tend to agree.)

I think, if OP does actually have NPD, not much will change. Prisons tend to house quite a few prisoners who have antisocial or narcissistic personality disorders. By most accounts, they adapt very well to prison life. I believe though Oscar will maintain and manipulate his ' victimisation' even if convicted. He'll use his friends and family to project to the media he's innocent, has been railroaded, was convicted simply because of his fame, couldn't receive a fair trial because of his notoriety, etc. He may well also publicly denigrate his defence team too if convicted.

JMO

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[Ncl1968]

Wasn't there also something to add to the bizzarity (made that up in case the grammar police are out on patrol!) about him holding his face... but not holding it until he got out of bed?

Nothing bizzar in Oscar's world. He is simply denied the opportunity to see reeva by fortune alas I think he mentioned her speaking to him which is even more bizzar iimo
Oh let's face it his whole story is completely bonkers
Again imo

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judgejudi, I think you've answered the question of whether Roux will be entering into evidence a scream test done by OP, despite OP having told Nel under cross had he'd participated in one.

I mean a live scream in court. It's so late, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Night night everyone. fftobed:

 

[soozieqtips]

My ex still carried a gun despite being prohibited from doing so, so I agree with you. Making threats with it actually landed him in jail for a year while police investigated and pressed charges that sent him to prison for 8 years. (Adding that because I've seen it suggested that Oscar won't be allowed out on appeal for murder if convicted of the firearm charges. I tend to agree.)

I think, if OP does actually have NPD, not much will change. Prisons tend to house quite a few prisoners who have antisocial or narcissistic personality disorders. By most accounts, they adapt very well to prison life. I believe though Oscar will maintain and manipulate his ' victimisation' even if convicted. He'll use his friends and family to project to the media he's innocent, has been railroaded, was convicted simply because of his fame, couldn't receive a fair trial because of his notoriety, etc. He may well also publicly denigrate his defence team too if convicted.

JMO

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BBM - Well, that will use up a lot of his time! I doubt he'll ever ever admit his guilt though (if convicted) because it's very rare that murderers confess, especially ones who are compulsive liars to boot. It would be nice for his family if prison made a man of him, but I doubt it will unless he acknowledges what he's done. He can't even acknowledge he fired the gun at Tasha's, so I hold out little hope of him coming clean and giving Reeva's family the truth and some way of moving on from this horror.

 

[DebinGA]

I mean a live scream in court. It's so late, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Sorry I wasn't clearer. You noted Roux having the two neighbor ladies replicate OP's screams, which imo proves he won't enter an actual scream test into evidence.

 

[DebinGA]

Nel will go round 2 with Wollie on Monday, and Roux promised m'lady he'd wrap up on Tuesday. I bet he'll end his case with OP's sympathizing shrink, leaving a huge and fatal hole re police tampering with scene depicted in the bedroom pics.

 

[Viper]

BBM - Well, that will use up a lot of his time! I doubt he'll ever ever admit his guilt though (if convicted) because it's very rare that murderers confess, especially ones who are compulsive liars to boot. It would be nice for his family if prison made a man of him, but I doubt it will unless he acknowledges what he's done. He can't even acknowledge he fired the gun at Tasha's, so I hold out little hope of him coming clean and giving Reeva's family the truth and some way of moving on from this horror.

I don't know anything about the requirements for murderers to be released on parole in SA. But. In the USA I do believe that they have to confess and show remorse to the Parole Board. And even when they do that, their application for parole is often rejected many times if the board, the prosecuting authorities, and/or the victim's family does not feel that the convict has served a long enough amount of his sentence for his crime. It would be interesting to learn more about exactly what the parole process is in SA.

 

[fox1lady]

I agree but it's the interpretation that makes it tricky. I hear
"I wanted to ask Reeva why - if she was phoning the police".

People do that sort of thing all the time in conversation.

I can't understand why he kept repeating "Reeva phone the police" he never once said (according to him) "Reeva have you called the police?", "Are they on their way?", "What did the police say?" If he wanted to let the "intruders" know that there was help on the way surely he would have said something like that. I really don't think he was at any time telling her to call the police, I don't think he was doing all of that running around to break the door down, I don't think he was too scared to turn the lights on... I'm in agreement with Nel, it's so ridiculously implausible, it cannot possibly have happened.

 

[fox1lady]

I get "I wanted to ask Reeva w__ (maybe why) I hope she's phoning the police" There's no break in cadence to suggest that he slipped and said why and it's clear that he didn't just say "I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the police." I don't think it means anything.

jmo

Do you not think it's odd that at no time did he ask her if she is phoning the police?

 

[soozieqtips]

I don't know anything about the requirements for murderers to be released on parole in SA. But. In the USA I do believe that they have to confess and show remorse to the Parole Board. And even when they do that, their application for parole is often rejected many times if the board, the prosecuting authorities, and/or the victim's family does not feel that the convict has served a long enough amount of his sentence for his crime. It would be interesting to learn more about exactly what the parole process is in SA.

BBM - funnily enough, I remember learning about that through an unusually dark episode of Frasier!! The shooter did show remorse, but his application was turned down because he hadn't served enough of his sentence, if I remember rightly.

Couldn't find anything conclusive about parole in SA, but did find the article below, which claims it's easier for someone with a life sentence to get parole than it is for those without a life sentence

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/convicted-murderer-fights-parole-quirk-1.1647285

“If he had been sentenced to life imprisonment, he would probably be eligible for parole now. The applicant contends there is something wrong with a system which makes granting of parole easier for persons sentenced to life imprisonment,” the court said.

 

[BritsKate]

Thanks for posting that jay-jay. I know her beauty doesn't define who she was - but my word, she was absolutely breathtaking. I have a tendency to believe her beauty went much, much deeper too, thanks to what her family and friends have shared.

What a loss.

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[jay-jay]

This link was posted up-thread. It's written by a "former Oxford philosopher, who" like us "has paid attention to every word and nuance in the televised courtroom. She believes she has identified a killer lie that proves the athlete’s guilt".

http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistor...s-killer-lies-will-little-detail-nail-murder/

This, just as Reeva's WhatsApp messages, will be Reeva's testimony to court. Poor old Oscar, he thought that by shooting her it would silence her but it hasn't and she is still right there, proving his version to be a lie.



(photo of Reeva courtesy the Mirror, http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2184439.ece/alternates/s615b/Reeva-Steenkamp.jpg )

 

[jay-jay]

Thanks for posting that jay-jay. I know her beauty doesn't define who she was - but my word, she was absolutely breathtaking. I have a tendency to believe her beauty went much, much deeper too, thanks to what her family and friends have shared.

What a loss.

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Ooops .. my post has now appeared after your post, Kate, as I was faffing around trying to work out how to post the photo as an attachment, and then forgot to include the photo credit so I ended up deleting it and starting again!