Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[jay-jay]

Thanks for posting that jay-jay. I know her beauty doesn't define who she was - but my word, she was absolutely breathtaking. I have a tendency to believe her beauty went much, much deeper too, thanks to what her family and friends have shared.

What a loss.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

.. wasn't she just .. and you're right, her beauty was not just skin deep by all accounts and I think that is what really shines through in her photos.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Right or wrong, I think having the eyes of the world watching what transpires will have an impact on sentencing. South Africa is already inundated by allegations that rich white defendants are afforded a different brand of justice. Its possible not wanting that image perpetuated might have an effect - I don't think Masipa will be unduly unfair either though - just conscious, careful and conscientious.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

It does seem wrong particularly with the media interest around the world that OP got bail when another double amputee with other health problems who was only charged with fraud has waited and had a very hard fight of around 18 months to be granted bail.This being the case I am still not clear what the special circumstances were for it to have been granted to OP so easily.
I would imagine that there will be quite a few other disabled people incarcerated in SA.

 

[BritsKate]

Ooops .. my post has now appeared after your post, Kate, as I was faffing around trying to work out how to post the photo as an attachment, and then forgot to include the photo credit so I ended up deleting it and starting again!

Good to know this case hasn't driven me totally mad. I thought we could just pass me off as psychic so I could predict, with albeit dubious credibility, that Oscar will be convicted of murder.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[jay-jay]

Oh my !!!!
It does sound like he said that too?
Why did Nel not jump on that ?

I'm pretty sure it is all being noted down .. and I have a feeling that Nel isn't pouncing on some of these things because he doesn't want OP to have to admit to knowing it was Reeva in the toilet just yet .. I'm guessing that he needs to take the trial through it's whole process and then will just use all of these things in his summing up at the end* (I'm led to believe that both Roux and Nel will do this right at the end, and present what they believe to have happened based on their findings throughout the trial to the judge .. I think I'm right in saying that?)


* sorry, 'closing argument' .. I knew I'd used the wrong terminology!

 

[jay-jay]

Thanks. Yes that's what I mean. He wants to create stuff that puts her in his bedroom to discount the fact she MAY have been in the spare room - he doesn't want any innocent falling out/arguing to be highlighted, which he presumes will lead incorrectly to premeditated murder.

Considering possibilities/options . . . Frustrating . .

Have you considered the possibility/option that OP killed her because he was angry? It's a far stronger possibility that the intruder one.

 

[Viper]

BBM - funnily enough, I remember learning about that through an unusually dark episode of Frasier!! The shooter did show remorse, but his application was turned down because he hadn't served enough of his sentence, if I remember rightly.

Couldn't find anything conclusive about parole in SA, but did find the article below, which claims it's easier for someone with a life sentence to get parole than it is for those without a life sentence

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/convicted-murderer-fights-parole-quirk-1.1647285

Thank you for that article! It was very interesting to read. With some people talking about OP getting a 15 year sentence and then getting out in just a few years, I was beginning to wonder if there was a parole process in SA at all.

I think it is good that they have that system. And it will eventually be good for OP to stand before them, the Steenkamp Family, and Gerrie Nel and both confess and show contrition for murdering Reeva. I doubt Mr. Nel will support OPs first few applications for parole though.

 

[Interested Bystander]

BBM - Well, that will use up a lot of his time! I doubt he'll ever ever admit his guilt though (if convicted) because it's very rare that murderers confess, especially ones who are compulsive liars to boot. It would be nice for his family if prison made a man of him, but I doubt it will unless he acknowledges what he's done. He can't even acknowledge he fired the gun at Tasha's, so I hold out little hope of him coming clean and giving Reeva's family the truth and some way of moving on from this horror.

So much for his God fearing religious background and his claim that he is a Christian. If he doesn't repent at some stage, preferably before the end of the trial (I don't see that happening), he must fear what lies ahead, though I doubt that he will repent until he is on his deathbed. I would like to be proved wrong.

I should point out I am a Humanist and I really don't intend to bring religion onto the forum. So this is the last you will hear me mention it. I just get a little mad when there are a few, like OP, who feel they can buck their religious beliefs until the last moment (or until it suits them) and feel that their god will forgive them something so hideous as murder. At the moment I think OP is in complete denial. I really do think he feels he is not guilty. Does that make him mentally ill?

 

[Feynman]

Since it's the weekend and the thread is somewhat slow, can someone who's been following for a long time answer wth happened to the boxes and boxes of steroids and related paraphernalia, including syringes, supposedly found at the scene? I'm reading some early threads (which is always very intereting lol) and the msm was carrying on about the steroids big time and saying that Oscar said he was holding them for a friend. Other reports around that time also said that Reeva was wearing a nightdress and that one of the shots happened in the bedroom....so maybe I shouldn't be surprised if nothing came of the steroids.

They weren't steroids. It was a homeopathic treatment called testis compositum, almost certainly useless and probably harmless. I think it can be injected, and that may account for the syringes.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thank you all for you posts, which were very interesting and informative!
:loveyou:

I now have to watch the Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) on TV and I'm curious, whether ELAIZA for Germany would win or the dragqueen from Austria or ....???

Goodbye for now!

 

[Zinn]

Can someone point me to detailed information about the wounds on two of Reeva's fingers on her left hand? I'm curious to know more about the wounds, placement of the wounds, whether splinters were found in the wounds, etc. TIA.

 

[BritsKate]

So much for his God fearing religious background and his claim that he is a Christian. If he doesn't repent at some stage, preferably before the end of the trial (I don't see that happening), he must fear what lies ahead, though I doubt that he will repent until he is on his deathbed. I would like to be proved wrong.



I should point out I am a Humanist and I really don't intend to bring religion onto the forum. So this is the last you will hear me mention it. I just get a little mad when there are a few, like OP, who feel they can buck their religious beliefs until the last moment (or until it suits them) and feel that their god will forgive them something so hideous as murder. At the moment I think OP is in complete denial. I really do think he feels he is not guilty. Does that make him mentally ill?

If he has something like NPD he can't perceive himself as wrong, guilty, or at fault, ever, because in his own mind he is perfect. Therefore, the rest of the world is wrong, at fault, and guilty. They just cannot accept any blame whatsoever - even when such blame is fully justified and irrefutable. Instead, they apologise with qualifiers - you'll see this by comments like 'I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings by screaming at you BUT you/they shouldn't have x, y, z first'. Any honest, deep remorse I really do believe is reserved for themselves. If he is NPD, I would expect him to quite honestly be aghast that he was even charged, that he's 'forced' to defend himself against detractors, blame the State for pursuing charges, and be highly resentful of his account ever being scrutinised by anyone.

In terms of using his religion (sorry I can't bold), its my belief he's doing the same with his disability too. His entire life he has fought to be seen no different than an able-bodied person - even saying he wasn't disabled at all, just differently abled - until now.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[DebinGA]

Can someone point me to detailed information about the wounds on two of Reeva's fingers on her left hand? I'm curious to know more about the wounds, placement of the wounds, whether splinters were found in the wounds, etc. TIA.

Suggest checking Google/YouTube for state pathologist Dr. Gert Saayman's testimony on March 9-10.

 

[Zuri]

They weren't steroids. It was a homeopathic treatment called testis compositum, almost certainly useless and probably harmless. I think it can be injected, and that may account for the syringes.

I just googled testis compositium. Very interesting as I had never heard of it before now. Insulin for humans used to be made from the pancreas of pigs. So it leads me to wonder if there is benefit from the testosterone of pigs to humans. I did not read further to see if there were double blind studies performed. If there is a benefit, based on the effects of testosterone on the human body, it furthers my belief that it was Reeva screaming and not a high pitched scream from OP. JMV

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thank you all for you posts, which were very interesting and informative!
:loveyou:

I now have to watch the Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) on TV and I'm curious, whether ELAIZA for Germany will win or the dragqueen from Austria or ....???

Goodbye for now!

Elaiza - "Is It Right" - LIVE | Eurovision Song Contest 2014 | NDR - YouTube
Conchita Wurst - Rise Like A Phoenix (Austria) 2014 Eurovision Song Contest - YouTube

 

[Nausicaa]

I just googled testis compositium. Very interesting as I had never heard of it before now. Insulin for humans used to be made from the pancreas of pigs. So it leads me to wonder if there is benefit from the testosterone of pigs to humans. I did not read further to see if there were double blind studies performed. If there is a benefit, based on the effects of testosterone on the human body, it furthers my belief that it was Reeva screaming and not a high pitched scream from OP. JMV

Bear in mind that in homeopathy the actual substance is not present at all. Bear in mind too that the ingredients of this product, both animal-derived and plant-derived, are all well-known to enhance (either really or allegedly) one main thing: sex drive.

 

[james83]

Thank you all for you posts, which were very interesting and informative!
:loveyou:

I now have to watch the Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) on TV and I'm curious, whether ELAIZA for Germany would win or the dragqueen from Austria or ....???

Goodbye for now!

I like the guy's in the bright coloured suit's so far, lol.

 

[Feynman]

An interesting article to read whilst we wait for next week's proceedings to continue...this highlights OP's inconsistencies with Reeva breathing:

http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistor...s-killer-lies-will-little-detail-nail-murder/

Yes, that is by far the best stand-alone piece of evidence against OP's version IMHO. This was raised here at WS well before that article - by Jake18 and others. Saayman said "a few more breaths after the head shot", and even the DT’s own witness, Jan Botha, said "death ensued very quickly after sustaining the head injury” (note: these are not exact quotes). Very powerful statements uncontested (and even endorsed) by the DT.

Pistorius said at trial "She was sitting with her weight on top of the toilet bowl. I checked to see if she was breathing and she wasn't … I pulled her weight on to me and I sat there crying for some time. I felt her head on my shoulder and I could feel the blood running down me. … I thought I felt her breathing. I could see her arm was broken. … I was trying to pick Reeva up. I could see she was still breathing. She was struggling to breathe.”

From the affidavit “I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.”

So from affidavit to trial, OP has been consistent on this point.

From first bangs to "she was still breathing" we’re talking about what, a time interval from 3:00 - 3:15, 3:00 - 3:20? That simply isn’t possible if the only shots fired are in the 3:00 am zone - as the DT wants us to believe - given the statements by the two pathologists, who have not been challenged on this.

Now the DT has tried to push those “first shots” out to 3:05 or something. That’s my recollection. Maybe they are dimly aware of the glaring problem here.

What’s amazing is Nel hasn’t pounded the table on this. Why not? We have people sipping coffee at keyboards figuring his out while Nel is busy spraying mist at laser beams. Very strange.

 

[Nausicaa]

I think I know Barnacle from a while back. Don't worry about it.

Sorry to hear you can't tell a viper from a barnacle, Steve. If the problem gets worse you won't be able to tell a hawk from a handsaw.

 

[Emz73]

I think I know Barnacle from a while back. Don't worry about it.

You said the same about capetowncrim.

Is this an Alpha male thing?

 

[Interested Bystander]

If he has something like NPD he can't perceive himself as wrong, guilty, or at fault, ever, because in his own mind he is perfect. Therefore, the rest of the world is wrong, at fault, and guilty. They just cannot accept any blame whatsoever - even when such blame is fully justified and irrefutable. Instead, they apologise with qualifiers - you'll see this by comments like 'I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings by screaming at you BUT you/they shouldn't have x, y, z first'. Any honest, deep remorse I really do believe is reserved for themselves. If he is NPD, I would expect him to quite honestly be aghast that he was even charged, that he's 'forced' to defend himself against detractors, blame the State for pursuing charges, and be highly resentful of his account ever being scrutinised by anyone.

In terms of using his religion (sorry I can't bold), its my belief he's doing the same with his disability too. His entire life he has fought to be seen no different than an able-bodied person - even saying he wasn't disabled at all, just differently abled - until now.

JMO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Can NPD ever be viewed as true mental illness rather than a "condition"? If the psychologist were to come up with that diagnosis, will OP get off with a lighter sentence than a "normal" person, though I don't ever feel anyone can be considered truly normal if they can commit murder.