Trial Discussion Thread #36 - 14.05.09 Day 29

[Zuri]

It was a tiny room, she was almost immediately a stationary target it is not surprising that he hit her with 3 possibly 4 of the bullets.

There were no shots to the right or right back corner. I found that very interesting. It was almost as if he was anticipating her movements as they were struck by the bullets. JMV

ETA: Or shooting in the direction of her voice.

 

[Carmelita]

Upper body strength mean's nothing if you can't balance properly.
How many bullets do you suppose Oscar has ever fired on his stump's with one hand?.

I don't know.

He braced himself, but he was on his stumps, thus the wild bullet trajectories, if he was on his prosthetics I imagine that the grouping would have been very tight.

 

[Ncl1968]

I disagree with Woolie on this point because he is wrong.


The picture that you posted of Reeva's head is an unnecessary use of the image.

i disagree you seem to paint a rose tinted picture someone has to remember an innocent woman has been murdered

 

[Carmelita]

There were no shots to the right or right back corner. I found that very interesting. It was almost as if he was anticipating her movements as they were struck by the bullets. JMV

Or he heard a noise that he perceived as an aggressive intruder and he shot at the noise.

 

[Ncl1968]

Or he heard a noise that he perceived as an aggressive intruder and he shot at the noise.

The only noises he heard was reevas

 

[Carmelita]

i disagree you seem to paint a rose tinted picture someone has to remember an innocent woman has been murdered

You know I agree with this Ncl, and I have never said that Oscar behaved reasonably I lean pretty much toward culpable homicide. I simply don't believe that the prosecution has dis-proven Oscar's defense.

That said I still will not be shocked if he is given a slap on the wrist.

 

[katydid23]

Or he heard a noise that he perceived as an aggressive intruder and he shot at the noise.

I thought OP said he was deafened by the sound of the shots?


ETA: in other words, according to OP, he couldnt have been responding to noises at that time, because he said he could not have heard RS if she screamed because his ears were ringing too badly.

 

[Carmelita]

The only noises he heard was reevas

Yes I know that even Oscar knows that at this point in the day. We were talking about bullet groupings, and we both proposed different scenarios which would account for the bullet groupings.

 

[katydid23]

You know I agree with this Ncl, and I have never said that Oscar behaved reasonably I lean pretty much toward culpable homicide. I simply don't believe that the prosecution has dis-proven Oscar's defense.

That said I still will not be shocked if he is given a slap on the wrist.

I will be very surprised if he is just given a wrist slap. I think MyLady is known for her strict sentencing.

 

[Ncl1968]

You know I agree with this Ncl, and I have never said that Oscar behaved reasonably I lean pretty much toward culpable homicide. I simply don't believe that the prosecution has dis-proven Oscar's defense.

That said I still will not be shocked if he is given a slap on the wrist.

That's good to know I had you as a op worshipers
I think they have more than enough to get homicide the only witness left has lied so many times under oath.. However I think more stuff is yet to be revealed

 

[Val1]

They did look that way a little bit. It is because he was moving from left to right while reacquiring his aim with each consecutive pull of the trigger.

From the inside of the door, just look at the overhead photo taken from within the WC of the trajectory rods. Look closely and see that all of the rods point to a single area in the WC, they point to Reeva's head and upper body, and that is where the bullets hit.

Looking from the outside of the door his grouping is extremely tight vertically, and it does not vary much at all; his horizontal grouping is equally tight. All of that given that after the first shot his target moved as Reeva fell, screamed, covered her head, etc... and OP was moving left to right.

The bottom line is this, the grouping on the outside of the door made while OP was moving and firing means very little. The grouping of the bullets that hit Reeva, she is the target, not the door, is extremely tight with 2 of the 3 last bullets hitting her in the head and upper arm. That's successfully making a headshot and an upper center mass (area of her upper arm). That is a very good grouping.

Then when you read stuff like this...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/14/oscar-pistorius-murder-girlfriends-shooting

Pistorius posted a photograph of himself at a shooting range in November 2011 on Twitter, boasting about his score: "Had a 96% headshot over 300m from 50shots! Bam!"

 

[MsMarple]

I'm glad this one has come back up for renewed discussion. I have listened to it several times now and each time I'm getting what sounds like a short word beginning with "h" between "why" and "she's". This leaves me unsure of exactly what he was saying. Can anyone fill in that blank or tell me I'm as deaf as Woollie?
Certainly that statement looks very bad for OP but the conveniently blurred articulation might get him off the hook. If for instance he meant to say, "I wanted to ask Reeva whether [or if] she was phoning the police," this might save his bacon.

I'm jumping in here from page 42 - I apologize for coming in late on this - I just can't keep up with the posts! :crosseyed: :scared:

Like you, I didn't hear him say “if” - I heard “why” said with a tremolo-like stutter, drawing out the last part of the word. Kind of like:

“I wanted to ask Reeva why-heh-aye she's phoning the police.”

But smoother and faster – less distinction between the letters.

Maybe he tried to correct “why” to “if” mid-sentence and ended up slurring the two words together but it doesn't sound like that to me. I listened via a pair of small JBL speakers – they're good but not real high end or anything and the audio's probably compressed so it's hard to tell.

I'd love to know if Nel's long pause was intended – he doesn't seem to leave a lot to coincidence.

Well, back to page 42.... :seeya:

 

[Ncl1968]

Yes I know that even Oscar knows that at this point in the day. We were talking about bullet groupings, and we both proposed different scenarios which would account for the bullet groupings.

Fair point to which I conceed my lady.

 

[Carmelita]

I thought OP said he was deafened by the sound of the shots?

Yes he did say that he was deafened (ears ringing) during the shooting and he couldn't hear anything. His ears were not ringing before the shots were fired which is when he did hear a noise in the toilet that he perceived to be an aggressive intruder. That is his defense.

 

[Zuri]

I really believed OP was telling the truth as he knew it. After reading here, and looking at the evidence, I now have a hard time believing his version of the events. Imagining Reeva's screaming, especially once hit with the first bullet, is just too hard to bear. IMO

 

[Viper]

I disagree with Woolie on this point because he is wrong.


The picture that you posted of Reeva's head is an unnecessary use of the image.

What else is Wollie wrong about, in your opinion.

Regarding my use of the image, I disagree with your comment. You were brazen enough to post an image of a paper target that someone shot at while stationary, standing steady on both legs or seated, while having full view of his stationary paper target. And then you attempted to use that as a comparison to OP wabbling on his stumps on a slippery tiled floor, shooting while he was moving from left to right, and holding his gun with just one hand and the other hand bracing his wobbly body on the wall, shooting at Reeva as she fell and he moved from left to right.

If you do not accept my image, post your own that shows something much more comparable than the one that you passed off to the forum; mine was exact!

 

[Carmelita]

I will be very surprised if he is just given a wrist slap. I think MyLady is known for her strict sentencing.

I have read about her strict no nonsense sentencing.

If I am wrong so be it.

I hope justice is served and I believe Judge Masipa is more than competent.

 

[Karmady]

There were no shots to the right or right back corner. I found that very interesting. It was almost as if he was anticipating her movements as they were struck by the bullets. JMV

ETA: Or shooting in the direction of her voice.

You mean to the right of the toilet room as you're facing the door? If so, he would have to have been standing in a different location to make that angle through the door. He would have had to enter all the way into the room and either stand in front of the door or pass by the front of it and stand to the left.

tons of images at this link:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...40DEE05BFC92CB2F54998F994E7EB53&FORM=IQFRBA#a

 

[whiterum]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/door-is-key-to-oscar-defence-1.1476164

There was a lot of blood on the scene. We can tell when Oscar picked Reeva up by the blood from her hair swipes.

“And from the blood markings we can see she was still alive at that time.

“There were also swipes on the wall where he carried her down the steps. And we can tell that by the time she got to the bottom of the steps she was already dead".

That would mean in RP's opinion (and according to OP's version ) she was still alive after the head shot, after OP running back and forth , screaming help from balcony, putting on his legs , beating door in with the bat. Still alive after being dragged out of toilet , after the phone calls to Stander, Netcare and security, after going downstairs to open the door. Alive when OP came back to the bathroom lifted her off the floor and carried her down the stairs.

He goes on to say that he could tell by the time she got to the bottom of the steps she was already dead. So in RP's opinion, blood markings on the stairs suggested she was still alive while being carried down the stairs but died before reaching the last steps.

How would RP's opinion at that time, now fit in with the time-line of how long Reeva would have lived according to OP's claim that the shots came first ?

Doesn't look like we going to hear his answer to this question since he apparently is not now testifying , so his lips are sealed.

 

[katydid23]

Yes he did say that he was deafened (ears ringing) during the shooting and he couldn't hear anything. His ears were not ringing before the shots were fired which is when he did hear a noise in the toilet that he perceived to be an aggressive intruder. That is his defense.

But we were asking how he knew where to shoot, to get that clean headshot. And you replied that he might have done so after hearing noises of movement.
At least I thought that was what you were saying...


PASTED BELOW:
Carmelita:
Or he heard a noise that he perceived as an aggressive intruder and he shot at the noise.