ColonelMustard
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Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30
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zwiebel
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N: Mr Roux is one hundred per cent correct, but he started this today. There must be some reason he called this witness today...it's a defence. The act is clear....I've now brougt this application. I received this report when Dr V walked ito the witness box - I've had an hour to read this report. I am bringing this application...
Nel says he feels strongly aout this, is sure it's not Roux's intention to have OP remanded, but he is going ahead with the application. He will come back with a stronger case for it later, when he's had more time to read the report...
Wonder if OP will fire Roux now?
Nel says he feels strongly aout this, is sure it's not Roux's intention to have OP remanded, but he is going ahead with the application. He will come back with a stronger case for it later, when he's had more time to read the report...
Wonder if OP will fire Roux now?
katydid23
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yep :nuts:
ColonelMustard
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Nel: Did he actually say that he said he was sorry that he shot Reeva?
V: I don't have a recollection that he didn't say that.
V: I don't have a recollection that he didn't say that.
Nel what if a person kills his partner, then suffers deep remorse.. would he display the same depression, the same anxiety??
Dr vos yes. yeees.. deep remorse.
Nel. the way you framed your last sentence.. he is certainly remorseful about the events..
Vos. he feels remorse about having caused the death of Miss S..
Nel. he hasn't said how he caused it??
Vos. noooooo.. he hasn't said that.
Vos. there is probably a legal diff. but from the psych, he is perfectly aware that he fired the shots that caused her death. its not a psch factor, but I can see its a legal factor.
Nel. I know from past experience. that if someone wants to rely on the fact of some automatic reaction. you would look for past events?? some history?
Vos. there is no question in my mind of a defence of automanism.. none of that,there is no question of that. his reaction following the death is appropriate.
Dr vos yes. yeees.. deep remorse.
Nel. the way you framed your last sentence.. he is certainly remorseful about the events..
Vos. he feels remorse about having caused the death of Miss S..
Nel. he hasn't said how he caused it??
Vos. noooooo.. he hasn't said that.
Vos. there is probably a legal diff. but from the psych, he is perfectly aware that he fired the shots that caused her death. its not a psch factor, but I can see its a legal factor.
Nel. I know from past experience. that if someone wants to rely on the fact of some automatic reaction. you would look for past events?? some history?
Vos. there is no question in my mind of a defence of automanism.. none of that,there is no question of that. his reaction following the death is appropriate.
witness seems subdued now. i think she realises what she has done...
bloodmeridian
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So OP heading for a three day section because of Roux. Wow! He'll be retching and sobbing and vomiting all the way.
AlexUK
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Strange he hasn't started already!
BritsKate
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Aislinn Laing @Simmoa Some legal experts on my timeline saying the psychiatrist's statement shows "dolus eventualis", that OP understood the consequences of acts
https://twitter.com/Simmoa
My reminder: dolus eventualis is one way of establishing intent required to prove murder.
https://twitter.com/Simmoa
My reminder: dolus eventualis is one way of establishing intent required to prove murder.
Nel. he thought he heard an intruder.
Vos that's what he told me
Nel he approached the danger. he sought out danger.
Vos. yes.
Nel. why would he arm himself and approach the danger??
Vos. that he may have to shoot> > ?? we know now that he did shoot. ..
Nel. doesn't that indicate a determination? a foreseeing of the possibility once he armed himself??
Vos.. yes.
Nel. does the fact that he suffered from anxiety. or being anxious. that he didn't find out if Reeva was in bed,... etc..
Vos, I haven't actually followed, if you put it to me in order I will deal with it.
Nel. you put it that he would be more likely to respond with flight instead of fight respond>??
Vos. yes..
Nel. yes. I found it.. a person suffering from GAD. with a person with a flight oh dear.. I cant tell the difference. he said fight reponse. wouldn't that make him more anxious. ?
Vos. no what I said was. some individual response.. to flight or fight. some situations you cant flee from. you are stuck with it.
Nel. goes thru Oscars story of on the stumps, going down the passage to the toilet door.
VOs. some people do respond to danger, being anxious. with out being able to run away. he isn't mobile, he is on his stumps. he cant get away.
Vos that's what he told me
Nel he approached the danger. he sought out danger.
Vos. yes.
Nel. why would he arm himself and approach the danger??
Vos. that he may have to shoot> > ?? we know now that he did shoot. ..
Nel. doesn't that indicate a determination? a foreseeing of the possibility once he armed himself??
Vos.. yes.
Nel. does the fact that he suffered from anxiety. or being anxious. that he didn't find out if Reeva was in bed,... etc..
Vos, I haven't actually followed, if you put it to me in order I will deal with it.
Nel. you put it that he would be more likely to respond with flight instead of fight respond>??
Vos. yes..
Nel. yes. I found it.. a person suffering from GAD. with a person with a flight oh dear.. I cant tell the difference. he said fight reponse. wouldn't that make him more anxious. ?
Vos. no what I said was. some individual response.. to flight or fight. some situations you cant flee from. you are stuck with it.
Nel. goes thru Oscars story of on the stumps, going down the passage to the toilet door.
VOs. some people do respond to danger, being anxious. with out being able to run away. he isn't mobile, he is on his stumps. he cant get away.
bloodmeridian
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Don't know if he's realised yet? :doh:
zwiebel
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N: You said his personality...more likely to fight than flight?
V: That relates to his general anx disorder.
N: If we have someone with a fight response...that makes him even more of a danger?
V: That's not my evidence...some individuals will go towards a conflict, some will run away, but sometimes there is no choice...
Nel counters that OP and Reeva could easily have escaped: 'He could have run away'.
V: He couldn't really run away. He's not mobile on his stumps.
V: That relates to his general anx disorder.
N: If we have someone with a fight response...that makes him even more of a danger?
V: That's not my evidence...some individuals will go towards a conflict, some will run away, but sometimes there is no choice...
Nel counters that OP and Reeva could easily have escaped: 'He could have run away'.
V: He couldn't really run away. He's not mobile on his stumps.
Murder: Dolus eventualis - minimum sentence 15 years
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