Trial Discussion Thread #43 - 14.06.30 Day 33

[JudgeJudi]

Nel: Dr V testified that OP was depressed when she saw him and was on medication.
DV didn't know that.
Nel: Asks he Dr V knew the accused's version of what happened that night.
Dr V: No.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel asks Dr if he feels qualified to give opinion.

Dr says 'this is a process. He has told me what he feels (when walking). I have tried to verify that...

N: You say he is vulnerable on his stumps....you feel qualified as ortho surgeon to link to his mental state? I say you cannot do that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dr V listened to what OP has told him, examined him to try and verify what OP said. Dr V tried to create an objective scenario. So he took X-rays. The Dr has demonstrated the vulnerability of the stumps. OP told the Dr what he feels and the Dr has tried to verify that for the Court.

Nel: You're saying he's vulnerable in a dangerous situation and that is because he had to come back to court.
Dr V. Yes.
Nel says the Dr is not qualified to do that.

 

[zwiebel]

N: ...severely impaired ability to flee....is it possible for accused, instead of firing shots in bthrm, to run away?

Dr: Yes....but not as you or I run...

 

[zwiebel]

Dr V: He can't hit the grouting between the tiles...

N: Is it possible for him to turn around in that bathroom and run?

Dr V: It's fair....

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel: Would it be possible instead of firing shots, would it be possible to run away?
Dr V. Yes, but not run as you or I run. He's battling to walk. For him to turn around is quite a process.

 

[zwiebel]

N: Did you not ask him about what happened on the night?

Dr; No, not at all.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel: He did run, and he never fell. He was on tiles, he ran to the room, he never fell.

 

[Forensics]

The defence didn't want the evaluation in the first place so I don't know why they would be disappointed.

But further, you are jumping the gun somewhat. We don't know the full evaluation hasn't found he suffers from an anxiety disorder since all that has been disclosed so far is that OP does not suffer from "mental illness or defect" that affects his appreciation of wrongfulness generally, or that could have affected his appreciation of wrongfulness that night. That's all we know so far from the report none of which means he doesn't have any mental condition or personality disorders, and the fact prosecution and defence have sort of reserved the right to refer to it and dispute other parts of it would appear to show there are other conditions reported just that these would not have affected his appreciation of wrongfulness that or any other night.

I take your point....we'll wait and see ...the devil is in the detail.

 

[zwiebel]

N:...he fired 4 shots with 9mmm pistol on his stumps. How wld that affect him?

Dr: He would have severe difficulty. But it's possible....there would be a recoil problem....could knock him off his stumps

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel told Dr V that he never fell that night on his stumps. Nell asks if the Dr asked OP what happened that night.
Dr: No.
Nel: He turned into the bathroom on tiles, looked and observed certain things. He fired 4 shots with a 9mm pistol, on his stumps. How would that affect him.
Dr: He would have severe difficulty depending on how he's firing.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dr: There would be a recoil problem. It could knock him off his stumps.

 

[zwiebel]

Dr: I really don't know about 9mms but if he reached, could have a real problem

Roux up, compaining about versions and vacumes.

Nel counters it's an objection to where he is going and he hasn't even got there yet.

 

[zwiebel]

They are still going. Roux is not happy with 'the version'.

 

[christee]

IMO, OP would not go down that hallway with a gun being so unsteady on his stumps.

 

[zwiebel]

Judge says Nel can continue on this line.

 

[zwiebel]

N: if accused foresaw a recoil problem and stood with his back against the wall?

Dr: it would be beneficial...if he's leaning against something it would be definitely beneficial

 

[zwiebel]

Now judge is questioning the version that Nel presents of OP with back against wall, but Roux agrees that's what OP said.

ETA: I think.

 

[G.bng]

Now judge is questioning the version that Nel presents of OP with back against wall, but Roux agrees that's what OP said.

ETA: I think.

The judge didn't question the version of OP with his back against the wall, only that Nel had not completed it with exactly how OP had described he shot, e.g. with one or two hands, from the hip, straight out, etc.

 

[zwiebel]

N: In tha bathrm he walks on the floor with all the grout and everything and tries to open the door...so that"s possible?

Dr: Yes.

N: He runs back to the bedroom. That's possible?

Dr: Yes.

N: He moved two fans off the balcony. That's possible?

Roux objects. He doesn't like 'this version'.