Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

[AJ_DS]

I no longer believe Marsipa will sentence OP to any jail time behind bars.

If she was going to, I believe she would NOT have granted OP bail, instead - taking him into custody now (or at least made his DT work much harder at convincing her otherwise). This would have laid the ground work of what's to come. In other words, just because he is found guilty of CH (and not guilty of murder) he is not getting off Scott free, he will pay a price for taking a life due to foreseeable negligence.

BUT Marispa granted bail, so I think her message is clear - a slap on the wrist is waiting for self-serving, no rules apply to him, "Teflon coated" Oscar.

Man, I sure hope sponsors steer clear of this jerk.

OP's athletic carrer is over… he hasn't trained in long time and he is already past his prime as demonstrated in London para/Olympics

Sponsors will not invest marketing dollars and associate their brand to on a over-the-hill athlete with so much controversy around him…

 

[Mr Fossil]

MEDIA STATEMENT: NPA’S REACTION TO OSCAR PISTORIUS JUDGEMENT, 12 SEPTEMBER, 2014

PRETORIA - The National Prosecuting Authority of South Africa respects the findings of the court today. However it is important to mention that from the very beginning the prosecutors held the view that there was sufficient evidence to secure a successful prosecution on the charges that were preferred against the accused. We respect the court decision to convict the accused on culpable homicide, which is in fact a serious crime. We are however, disappointed that we were not successful in securing a conviction on the original charge of premeditated murder, negligent discharge of a firearm and possession of ammunition.

NPA will await until the matter is concluded and will then comment on any further legal steps that might be envisaged.

Further, NPA is satisfied with the manner in which the prosecution team prosecuted the case. They displayed the highest degree of professionalism and their ethical conduct could not be faulted throughout the trial. They have served as good ambassadors for the National Prosecuting Authority of South Africa and the fight for justice.

NOTE: The NPA media statements are available on the website:www.npa.gov.za.

 

[Giles]

Sorry if this has been posted.

Reeva Steenkamp’s Parents Say ‘Justice Was Not Served’ in Oscar Pistorius Verdict

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...ps-parents-say-justice-was-not-served-n202081

ETA - there is a short video segment here.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

It was brought up in court by the DT how the gun ownership test has a similar question to the example given in the article re lawful v unlawful shooting. I don't remember the example exactly, but it was about shooting blindly without seeing a potential attacker. OP answered correctly that shooting in that circumstance would be unlawful. How does that fit with the writer's argument that JM was correct re Eventualis because OP thought it was lawful for him to shoot through the door. To me it doesn't fit at all.

It doesn't seem to fit to me either.

 

[Feynman]

arguing over bail is a token issue. she will clearly give him bail regardless now its clear she believed his comical story, that it was all an accident.

We don't know if she believed his story. All we know is she ruled it was reasonably possibly true.

 

[4MrsB]

OK everyone apparently the IPS have said that OP will not be banned & they would welcome him back.This was disclosed on Sky News, I really should stop watching this channel as my blood pressure can't deal with the information they are disclosing. We should all be outraged about this. If you are as outraged as I am, then consider voicing your opinion to them. Here is The International Paralympic Committee website & list of management..................... http://www.paralympic.org/the-ipc/about-us

I have done just that. Thanks for the link.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Sorry if this has been posted.

Reeva Steenkamp’s Parents Say ‘Justice Was Not Served’ in Oscar Pistorius Verdict

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...ps-parents-say-justice-was-not-served-n202081

Absolutely heart breaking!!!!!!!

 

[geevee]

I vote for a "Guilty" on the thread title now that he's at least been held accountable in some small way for the killing of Reeva.

I'm still having a very hard time understanding her conflicting reasoning for her verdict, and do hope Nel files an appeal after sentencing (or lack of a sentence , as seems more likely).

 

[04009margaret]

link?

Sorry Harmony,I know how to link websites, articles etc but I'm at a loss how to link a continuous news television show where they are discussing the trial. Can you help me out here as I've looked at their website & they don't have clips for everything they cover.

 

[4MrsB]

Sorry if this has been posted.

Reeva Steenkamp’s Parents Say ‘Justice Was Not Served’ in Oscar Pistorius Verdict

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...ps-parents-say-justice-was-not-served-n202081

How heartbreaking for them. They are correct, justice was not served. I am glad they have spoken out about this verdict. In the past they have been very quiet, waiting & allowing the justice system to run its course. They deserved justice & Marispa choose to look the other way.

 

[clearskies1]

The guy is a flat out danger to society. And, after all this, nothing's changed. He's still on the streets.

 

[Viper]

The NPA has issued a statement yesterday saying that they are awaiting the sentencing from Masipa. I think that is important, that they said something right away yesterday. If Masipa does not give OP a sentence towards the upper end of 15 years then the NPA is going to appeal her verdicts and her sentencing, it would not be the first time that prosecutors have had to do it. Stay tuned...

 

[4MrsB]

Agreed.

Perhaps Masipa suffers from onset dementia and/or senility… which would make her quite pliable and receptive to suggestion.

Surprisingly, she is much younger than she appears. Her body/arthritis is failing, but she is only 66 yrs old I believe. Almost 67. I think we're thrown by her hands & limp, but she isn't that old.

However, that being said - her verdict and reasoning behind it seem like that of a person with dementia or senility, IMO. At least that of someone who should not be holding down her powerful position. Crazy thinking!

 

[Mr Fossil]

NPA to ponder possible appeal against Pistorius judgement

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/8fd0f0...r-possible-appeal-against-Pistorius-judgement

"State Prosecutor Gerrie Nel will apparently now pass the case's documents along with Masipa's judgment to a third independent party within the NPA. This person could then decide on whether or not the State should pursue an appeal against the judgment."

 

[whiterum]

Sorry Harmony,I know how to link websites, articles etc but I'm at a loss how to link a continuous news television show where they are discussing the trial. Can you help me out here as I've looked at their website & they don't have clips for everything they cover.

Yes Margaret I heard that on sky news earlier too .

 

[DebinGA]

OK everyone apparently the IPS have said that OP will not be banned & they would welcome him back.This was disclosed on Sky News, I really should stop watching this channel as my blood pressure can't deal with the information they are disclosing. We should all be outraged about this. If you are as outraged as I am, then consider voicing your opinion to them. Here is The International Paralympic Committee website & list of management..................... http://www.paralympic.org/the-ipc/about-us

“Following today’s verdict, our thoughts remain with all those who have been affected by this terrible tragedy, in particular the family and friends of Reeva Steenkamp who sadly lost her life in this incident. “Throughout this case, the IPC has stressed the importance of differentiating between Oscar’s contribution to the Paralympic Movement and his private life. “As a sports organisation, it would be unwise for the IPC to comment on the conclusion of a court case that is not related to sport.”

 

[whiterum]

Surprisingly, she is much younger than she appears. Her body/arthritis is failing, but she is only 66 yrs old I believe. Almost 67. I think we're thrown by her hands & limp, but she isn't that old.

However, that being said - her verdict and reasoning behind it seem like that of a person with dementia or senility, IMO. At least that of someone who should not be holding down her powerful position. Crazy thinking!

I would suggest she will be enjoying a handsome retirement fairly soon.

 

[pandax81]

Here is an article that explains why Masipa was RIGHT about Dolus Eventualis
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...a-was-right-on-dolus-and-murder/#.VBMi5_ldVNR

What does everyone think about it?

He’s wrong imho. If OP believed (dolus directus) or foresaw and accepted a risk (dolus eventualis) that there wasn’t an imminent or inevitable attack from an intruder, or believed (dolus directus) or foresaw and accepted a risk (dolus eventualis) that his response to the intruder was unnecessary, disproportionate or unreasonable, then he had intention to unlawfully kill (if he also had relevant intention or foresight with regard to killing of course). These propositions, when considered and conceived properly, are consistent with the court’s finding that he believed his life was in danger generally and that he thought Reeva could only be in bed.

The author’s argument is that dolus eventualis does not require identity of the victim, but on the particular circumstances/facts found by the court, it happens in this case to logically reduce to foreseeing possibility of it being Reeva. However, this does not hold - it it just one form it may have taken, the others above are possibilities too.

He may be right that Masipa understands it the same way as him though I thought the same as an explanation for her apparent contradiction

 

[jassy writer]

Thank you, very interesting information from Samantha Taylor. What I can't help but wonder...WHY didn't Nel use this in his case? Surely OP bullying a previous girlfriend would be important to the case. This is extreme damaging information. Puzzled why it wasn't used. Even if covered in chambers for judge to decide it's admissibility, the info would be out to Judge M.

Instead of "thanks Marsipa", I would rephrase that to say, "thanks Uncle Arnold" (family knowing OP's anger issues & what a loose cannon he was and not getting him help, not coddling him and his outbursts).

I am sure that if it had been in any way admissible it would have been used, but the minute Nel tried to get it out there, Roux would have jumped up and objected. I think in my limited understanding it falls under character evidence.

 

[turaj]

OP's athletic carrer is over… he hasn't trained in long time and he is already past his prime as demonstrated in London para/Olympics

Sponsors will not invest marketing dollars and associate their brand to on a over-the-hill athlete with so much controversy around him…

Why do you say he is not training...how would you know. He is living in a multi building mansion owned by Uncle Arnold including lots of land and I'll bet he has had his trainer there every day. That is and will be his life.