Trial Discussion Thread #55 - 14.14.10, Day 44 ~ sentencing~

[Cherwell]

Oh and as long as were are on tea, what is the proper way to write Judge Masipa's title? Is it My Lady, Milady, M'lady.. ?

It would be "Her Ladyship". I have a few more appropriate titles in mind though.

 

[Jake18]

from this expert witness, and to back up her sentencing, i am thinking that masipa will be mentioning:
cement floors.
no baths.
overcrowding.
dangers to paraplegics within the prison community.

Yep.

Reminds me of :
Reeva didn't scream,
Shots fired in quick succession,
Remorse,
*Attempted resuscitation.

*This one irritates me the most. How anyone can think blocking an airway somehow equates to basic life support I'll never know.

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder if Nel will return with the supposed fact in the report that "he accepts he was negligent". This fact simply cannot be true, as her own evidence confirms (OP only told her he 'respects' the court's finding - he made no mention of accepting it or putting a new version to her.)

The clear conclusion must be that this witness does not understand the crime of negligence/culpable homicide. She says OP has accepted he was negligent because he accepts it was his hands which fired the shots and caused the death. This is merely accepting the obvious, that it was an unlawful killing of an innocent person. A negligent killing is a different thing entirely.

Sadly, as Jake just said, it would be pointless.

 

[jay-jay]

I will be interested to see what happens when the witnesses for the PT come to the stand to say what impact it has had on the friends and family .. surely they, and especially not the statement given by Reeva's parents (whether done by them or by someone else on their behalf) are not going to be cross-examined by Roux are they?

 

[WilliamMunter]

From news24:

AV: OP has made a monthly payment to the Steenkamps and offered to pay more.

Reporter Nastasya Tay says she has received confirmation that Pistorius wants to set up a fund to financially support the Steenkamps.

#OscarPistorius' agent tells me he's been managing the "significant" monthly payments to the Steenkamps, since March 2013.

So presumably that precludes any civil case.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If OP kills again, there will still be concrete floors in prison, and the possibility of sodomy (even though we know he would be kept separate from other prisoners for his own safety). Does this mean no matter what further crimes he commits, he'll always be able to avoid prison in favour of some light dusting a couple of times a month?

That's it! OP has literally been given a License to Kill. He's Pistorius, Oscar Pistorius. Sad thing is it's not a joke, he'll probably introduce himself this way, if he doesn't already.

:kickcan: Just catching up, heard the end of 'A whosawaki' that woman's voice makes me ill let alone what she is saying, it goes with the whole theme of this sickening court case. I cannot imagine what June and Barry Steenkamp go through each day, this is a living nightmare, the proverbial Groundhog day. Tragic.

 

[lithgow1]

I will be interested to see what happens when the witnesses for the PT come to the stand to say what impact it has had on the friends and family .. surely they, and especially not the statement given by Reeva's parents (whether done by them or by someone else on their behalf) are not going to be cross-examined by Roux are they?

I think he will cross but if he's smart, and he obviously is, it will be a 'good cop' approach. Questions about healing, forgiveness and so on IMO. He'd know that being antagonistic, like with the earwitnesses, would be counter productive. Having said that, their answers to questions of that ilk may well be very interesting since I'm sure that like most of us, they don't really believe that OP has taken responsibility for his actions and think he is more concerned for his own welfare and future than anything else. It would be nice to hear a few hard truths from someone other than Nel.

 

[vanatos]

Only 2 people in this whole trial has impressed me with their professionalism, expertise and dignity.

Gerrie Nel.

Captain Mangena.

 

[AW2B]

IMO..AV's report is music to Masipa's ears. They are basically saying the same thing. Pistorius was remorseful..
AV..Pistorius has already been punished..Masipa ..I don't want to punish him twice. I don't buy that Masipa was seriously admonishing AV..she's doing this for public consumption to show that she is being fair..

 

[WilliamMunter]

Rebecca Davis @becsplanb

"Oakley wanted Pistorius in a charity called "Impossible to Possible", a phrase which sums up my feelings about the development of this trial"


I love her tweets.

 

[Estelle]

I've just re enrolled my eldest children in nippers (surf lifesaving). Any parent who wants to help out and get involved needs to have a "Blue Card" or Police Clearance. Any person working with children in childcare etc needs to have the same. The DT are deluded if they think OP will be welcomed by those children's parents.

Extract from South Africa concerning Police Clearance Certificates

Can a Criminal Record be removed or Expunged?

Yes a Criminal record can be removed or expunged under certain circumstances for example.

• A fine of not more than R 20000 must have been a option.
• No jail term must have been done.
• No sexual offence.
Please go to Expunge mint for more details.

Who needs a Police Clearance Certificate?

There is no hard and fast rule but the following can be taken as a guideline
for a person 16 years and older who wants to immigrate, work or study in a
foreign country you and your dependants may have to provide police certificates.

Visa offices may also request certificates from students and foreign workers.
• Wants to Emigrate.
• Wants permanent residency.
• Wants a work permit.
• Certain Visa applications.
• Certain types of occupations
Usually you must obtain Police Clearance Certificates from countries you visited for more than 6 consecutive months at a time.

http://www.policeclearance.co.za/policeclearancecertifcate.html

 

[Interested Bystander]

For those who can tune in EWN is running last night's Legal Round Table (audio only of course).

http://ewn.co.za/Features/oscarpistorius/live-audio

 

[Cherwell]

IMO..AV's report is music to Masipa's ears. They are basically saying the same thing. Pistorius was remorseful..
AV..Pistorius has already been punished..Masipa ..I don't want to punish him twice. I don't buy that Masipa was seriously admonishing AV..she's doing this for public consumption to show that she is being fair..

But why only start now?

 

[lithgow1]

So presumably that precludes any civil case.

I really don't know. I guess it would depend on whatever 'contract' or agreement had been reached. There's been a lot of talk that the Steenkamp's would/were proceeding with a civil suit but that was before this became known. I must say it's all a bit 'tricky'. I don't blame them at all for accepting his money since their daughter helped support them, but in addition to any monetary aspects June Steenkamp has always maintained she wanted the truth of what happened more than any particular punishment for OP. Then again, that may have changed as events have unfolded.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I will be interested to see what happens when the witnesses for the PT come to the stand to say what impact it has had on the friends and family .. surely they, and especially not the statement given by Reeva's parents (whether done by them or by someone else on their behalf) are not going to be cross-examined by Roux are they?

personally, i think it is easier to show mitigating factors than aggravating ones.
the loss to friends and family is the same however the life is taken away.

i am interested to see how the pt is going to highlight the seriousness of the crime. i don't think this can be done by friends and family.

 

[Cherwell]

Extract from South Africa concerning Police Clearance Certificates

Can a Criminal Record be removed or Expunged?

Yes a Criminal record can be removed or expunged under certain circumstances for example.

• A fine of not more than R 20000 must have been a option.
• No jail term must have been done.
• No sexual offence.
shttp://www.policeclearance.co.za/policeclearancecertifcate.html

Ahhh, so that's what they're up to!
At all costs he cannot be given any jail sentence. He will just pay a fine and everything will be wiped clean as though none of this ever happened.

I know what I want to happen, but I'd better not write it down here.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If Reeva had been a rhinoceros, Oscar Pistorius would have long been in prison because it seems that South African law cares more about animals than humans

Bingo! :yes:

 

[Estelle]

Courtroom journalists are using the lunch break to obtain further confirmation of the monthly stipends which manager Peet van Zyl testified that Pistorius pays to the family of Reeva Steenkamp.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...continues-live#block-543d08d9e4b0cd82a095f5e3

 

[04009margaret]

Another case that Annette Vergeer testified as the social worker.............

"Annette Vergeer, a social worker, who was asked by Mokgoro to compile a report in mitigation of sentence, suggested that house arrest could be a suitable sentence for Mokgoro. Vergeer's report, however, came under attack from the victim's father Godfrey. He accused Vergeer of failing to do a thorough job, after she wrote that it is "alleged that Boitumelo has been in a vegetative state because of the assault".

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/he-injured-her-to-express-his-feelings-1.462667#.VD0PNPmSySp


ETA: The victim died after spending 9 years in a coma.

 

[Jake18]

But why only start now?

Because her self imposed media ban before the verdict likely gave her a false impression of OP's status in the community, especially in view of the while balloon crew. Subsequently, she's learned that most of SA think he murdered Reeva and she's been the subject of a nasty backlash.

Of course, as we've subsequently learned, OP's negative image in the public eye is actually all due to the PT and media reporting and not at all to the fact that he fired 4 shots into a tiny bathroom and killed his girlfriend, resulting in horrific injuries and a terrible death. And don't forget that as a consequence of being charged with murder for this "mistake" he has been unable to move forward with his grieving and is thus caught up in a complicated grief reaction.