Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[jassy writer]

Imo, it's a friends in high places scenario. Should the judge see fit to throw the book at OP, there's little doubt in my mind that an appeal will be filed immediately claiming some kind of psychological malfunction/impairment and will probably get him off with house arrest or some such carp.

As far as I know if the case goes to appeal, the judges may review ONLY the evidence presented during this trial. No new evidence may be introduced.

 

[Val1]

They should have taken that into evidence.

I think I remember him mentioning that on the stand. He opened it on some anniversary. But I can't remember what he said about it.

He opened it on what he claimed to be RS' birthday, but he was 11 days off... as for what the gift was, pics(no description of which ones) and the candies, the card was never revealed by either the defense or the prosecution, they both cut off the line of questioning before OP got to it. :/

 

[Val1]

As far as I know if the case goes to appeal, the judges may review ONLY the evidence presented during this trial. No new evidence may be introduced.

If you go back to the bail hearing, it was interrupted by someone that wanted everything halted for some psychological testing before any charges were stayed etc., but the judge denied it, saying it would have to be filed separately and iirc used for mitigation purposes.

 

[Trooper]

Well you have your opinion, and I have mine. As I see it, he doesn't adduce cogent arguments. He tries to score cheap points and mostly badgers, bullies and cajoles. I can't be the only one seeing it, because he has been reported to the SAHRC.

as it stands it is you seeing 'it' and one other person who has reported Nel to the SAHC.. I am wondering if you understand that process? and what the SAHRC does with what you term a 'report??

Since Mr Oldwage, Oscars junior Barrister has had a note on his docket from Judge Masipa , no less , do you feel this will be a handicap to Oscar in the summing up process?? will Mr Oldwage be able to produce the spurious evidence he threatened a witness with during x-examination??

your thoughts ?

 

[kaos]

Imo, it's a friends in high places scenario. Should the judge see fit to throw the book at OP, there's little doubt in my mind that an appeal will be filed immediately claiming some kind of psychological malfunction/impairment and will probably get him off with house arrest or some such carp.

I was thinking that's where all the awards and character stuff was heading - to make the judge think a jail sentence wouldn't serve anyone and he'd end up with community service or similar.

 

[Trooper]

Well you have your opinion, and I have mine. As I see it, he doesn't adduce cogent arguments. He tries to score cheap points and mostly badgers, bullies and cajoles. I can't be the only one seeing it, because he has been reported to the SAHRC.

I think we need to amend this .. currently , there is a report that a report has been made.. there has been no mention or substantiation of either the report or its content.

 

[Val1]

Much more interesting is that is caused Roux heart palpitations and he grilled witness, photographer about it, who said 'I did not photo this first day as it was not moveable evidence, I concentrated on moveable evidence that could be tampered.'

I admit, I was kinda wishing that one of those wounds on RS' back had been verified as from a pellet matching one in OP's air rifle. Perhaps if the defense raises enough doubt about whether it could have come from the magazine rack the prosecution can float that theory? :/

 

[Val1]

I think we need to amend this .. currently , there is a report that a report has been made.. there has been no mention or substantiation of either the report or its content.

The only thing I saw about it was that he was reported for calling OP a liar while he was in the witness box, which the judge reprimanded him for shortly after the report was made known to the public. No idea how much further something like that could go?

 

[Val1]

I was thinking that's where all the awards and character stuff was heading - to make the judge think a jail sentence wouldn't serve anyone and he'd end up with community service or similar.

Hmm between all those and a mental impairment, he could still qualify for the Special Olympics...

 

[shane13]

Oscar's 'I will try Milady.'

When Nel crossed Oscar and remnded him that he has to tell the truth [etc.], the above was Ocar's reply.

Couple that with his earlier stating that he is on trial for his life [or words to that effect], together with what "try" often means, it sounds again like Oscar gives himself away.

A "standard" liar, knowing they are about to lie [or already having done so in the case] would merely say, "I will Milady."

Oscar-- if PT case is correct--also knows he has and will lie again; but thinks his wording is a clever way out or such. But it only calls attention to the inference in his reply. Meaning: I will lie if I believe I have to to save my skin.

 

[Trooper]

The only thing I saw about it was that he was reported for calling OP a liar while he was in the witness box, which the judge reprimanded him for shortly after the report was made known to the public. No idea how much further something like that could go?

:ignore: <-- that's what the SAHRC will do.

 

[Patagonia]

I am very curious about Reeva's jeans being found outside in the garden, just under the bathroom window? I missed that info, where did it come from? Was that confirmed?

If so, then the first thing that crosses my mind when thinking about it is that Oscar threw them out, while yelling: "Get out of my house!" Yelling at Reeva, and later testified about yelling this very sentence to the intruder (in fear that some of the neighbors might have heard it?)

And another thing that crossed my mind, is it possible that Reeva had locked herself in the WC with Oscar's phone in her hand? In order to inspect his messagess/calls? After a fight (it's not impossible that she was also jelous and/or insecure, and there were some suggestions that he was still not completely over Samantha - they had only just broken up, and apparently only because she (also) cheated on him. Also, there were people who were 'trolling' Reeva on twitter, trying to make her insecure about Oscar's feelings for her and other women in his life.)

So this was a very fresh relationship and not without issues.

And I don't buy his "deeply in love" depiction of their relatinship. It was too soon for that. And they were both insecure at times.

Oscar certainly had many female fans, and lots of girlfriends/affairs in his life. And Sam was apparently still texting him. What if Reeva and OP got into a fight that night, over some jelousy issues, and she took his phone and ran to the wc and locked herself in it, in order to check his phone? And that enraged him further, and caused to first try to open the door with a bat, and then when that didn't work, took his gun and shoot through it (and later used the bat again, to open the door, after realizing what he had done?)

Just an idea that crossed my mind, thinking about the possible scenarios....

On another note, I really don't believe that Stander and his daughter were possibly trying to cover up what happened (or that anything like that would've happend had Stipp never arrived). I mean, what is the chance of that? That they would (and BOTH) agree to something like that?! And as soon as they came, no less?! I don't find that realistic... I mean, you couldn't count on your best friend, or even parent to do something like that, much less someone less close to you. This is a SERIOUS crime, we're talking about... and not helping in covering up some shooting through the sunroof, or something (much more) trivial like that.

I don't see them arriving and in the next few minutes agreeing to help him cover up a murder! Something like that only happens in the movies ;D

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A pity, that we could not try out the following:

Nel will be very kindly and considerate in the further questioning of OP.
OP will enjoy the respectful questioning (respect, which he is used to in the past) and OP will tell one fairy tail after another without any pressure.
The judge will consider his poor difficult life as a disabled man and OP will be acquitted eventually.
OP will clench his fist and will shout "Yessss!" (We know from his bail "victory".)
Then OP will continue his life as before but even more invulnerable.
Country, media, sport, girls/women - all these will celebrate his resurrection.

It will take not a long time until the next nasty deadly "happening".

Then we all would know: OP was not innocent of Reeva's death in 2013, there were no intruders. OP would not have learned a tiny bit of something about his egocentricity and ruthlessness and morality.

If ever anyone could help to lead OP to become a full fledged moral human, then NOW NEL with his insistent questioning, always with shaking OP up not to be responsible and being a liar.

Sorry, my English is minimal.

 

[Val1]

As far as I know if the case goes to appeal, the judges may review ONLY the evidence presented during this trial. No new evidence may be introduced.

Then I eagerly await Roux calling the "friend of the family" and his associates from the medical centre that they whisked OP to, between his arrest and arriving at the police station for processing.

 

[44ALLAN]

"But Mr.P you were holding the gun when it discharged itself were you not ?"
"I didn't pull the trigger M'lady"

"But Mr.P if there had been a burglar your house alarm would have went off surely ?".
"Not necessarily M'lady the builders 'might' have removed some of the sensors".

Good defence up to now eh !!!

 

[James50]

Don't worry... Nel was wrongfully arrested while prosecuting the Selebi case! All in a day's work for a prosecutor - it is not an easy job

.

Fair enough. I don't know the details of that case, but I'll take your word for it.

Nel's integrity is widely respected.

Well I can only fairlly go on the basis of what I see with my own two eyes. I find him rather puffed up with his own sense of importance (I was watching him closely) and he makes charges which he doesn't back up with reasons. If someone keeps repeating enough times that someone else is lying, people will eventually believe it, even if it isn't true. He uses constant repetition and smear tactics to win his points. Not reasoning. Someone I admire is Tom Meserau. He rarely repeats the same point twice, but he calmly and quietly wins all (or most of) his cases.

All I hear him say is "See, it's not that simple Mr. Pistorius," or "We'll get to it, don't worry," and yet he never does or backs it up with any real substance. Just seeks to paint OP in a bad light with mere statements.

An argument is a statement you can fully demonstrate to be true, not a statement you make which then just hangs in mid air, so to speak/

Far from scoring cheap points, Nel has won major concessions from OP and pointed out very significant inconsistencies.

Such as what? I didn't notice any. All I noticed was that Nel had his version and OP had his.

If OP wanted to be treated with kid gloves, his best bet would have been not to fire his gun in anger! Probably, Nel is deliberately pressuring him partly because he knows OP has a short fuse and if angry, he will find it less easy to stick to the lines he has learned.

I didn't say he wanted to be treated with kindness. I say that he doesn't function well when someone is unkind because he's not used to it.

 

[shane13]

A pity, that we could not try out the following:

Nel will be very kindly and considerate in the further questioning of OP.
OP will enjoy the respectful questioning (respect, which he is used to in the past) and OP will tell one fairy tail after another without any pressure.
The judge will consider his poor difficult life as a disabled man and OP will be acquitted eventually.
OP will clench his fist and will shout "Yessss!" (We know from his bail "victory".)
Then OP will continue his life as before but even more invulnerable.
Country, media, sport, girls/women - all these will celebrate his resurrection.

It will take not a long time until the next nasty deadly "happening".

Then we all would know: OP was not innocent of Reeva's death in 2013, there were no intruders. OP would not have learned a tiny bit of something about his egocentricity and ruthlessness and morality.

If ever anyone could help to lead OP to become a full fledged moral human, then NOW NEL with his insistent questioning, always with shaking OP up not to be responsible and being a liar.

Sorry, my English is minimal.

One minor correction mein Freund[in].
it was not Oscar who screamed 'Yesss!" upon getting bail at the BH.
It was someone in the gallery.

 

[jassy writer]

Oh, don't worry, Nel will get to all the things he says he will get to.

Just not in the order that OP expects him to.

 

[jassy writer]

It's a good tactic, actually, because it means OP can never relax about any one part of his story... he has to hold all of his version in his head all of the time, which is stressful and makes it more likely he'll trip up.

 

[James50]

I think we need to amend this .. currently , there is a report that a report has been made.. there has been no mention or substantiation of either the report or its content.

Ah, okay, thank you for clarifying that.