Trial - Ross Harris #2

[popsicle]

I don't believe he will be able to answer my main question-----how could he forget in the span of seconds, when he arrived at the exit to the main street?

It is going to be really hard for him to convince me that he could innocently forget his child in a manner of seconds. If he was actively texting at the time, and looking at Whisper, then I will never accept that it was an innocent mistake.

That reminds me.... this morning Vinnie P said Ross was whispering while he worked. Like whistle while you work. :notgood:

 

[PaperDoll]

I think Ross knew Cooper was in the car when he went into the office, but here is a possibility for reasonable doubt.

He claims he thought he dropped off Cooper at daycare. Well, on that morning, he took Cooper into Chick-fil-A rather than go through the drive-through. Perhaps that whole thing of taking the child out of the car seat and then putting him back into the car seat registered in his brain (which was busy with his texting) as bringing Cooper to daycare.

Again, I'm not really buying that....but it does make me wonder if maybe he DID think he dropped Cooper off.

(Well, I would more willing to think that if Cooper wasn't RIGHT THERE in the car.)

Another thought to share as I catch up. Cooper might have been alive at lunch?! That hurts to know.

jmo

Ross remembered Cooper at CFA that morning and we have evidence of that because he was carrying him in his arms as he entered and ordered. So, I wonder why he didn't forget him in the car at CFA? If he was so distracted I would think the longer trip from home to CFA would cause him to be more distracted than the time it took him time to leave CFA. He was fully aware of Cooper at CFA and I do not believe he was so distracted that he "thought" he took him to daycare in less time to get to work than home to CFA. Hope that makes sense. Typing on WS quick reply is very slow and doesn't get all my words in.. UGH!

 

[DexterMorgan]

I don't agree with you. If you commit a felony, e.g. assault, rape, cruelty to children, home invasion, etc.and someone died due to your acts/non-acts then you are responsible. Explain how you aren't, please. Setting aside the 'eggshell' theory of torts which in any case argues to my side.

It has to be a Violent Class A felony being committed I think.

 

[Inthedetails]

Ross remembered Cooper at CFA that morning and we have evidence of that because he was carrying him in his arms as he entered and ordered. So, I wonder why he didn't forget him in the car at CFA? If he was so distracted I would think the longer trip from home to CFA would cause him to be more distracted than the time it took him time to leave CFA. He was fully aware of Cooper at CFA and I do not believe he was so distracted that he "thought" he took him to daycare in less time to get to work than home to CFA. Hope that makes sense. Typing on WS quick reply is very slow and doesn't get all my words in.. UGH!

What I'm saying is the whole trip into CFA - taking Cooper out of the car seat, carrying him in his arms, chatting with the employees, etc. registered in Ross' distracted brain that he actually took him to daycare rather than to CFA.

I have no idea if that's what happened in Ross' brain, but I admit, it's giving me some reasonable doubt....

except that Cooper was RIGHT THERE in the car in the Home Depot parking lot. That is the sticky point for me. It's not like a roomy car with a blind spot where the car seat was.

jmo

 

[Hope4More]

I don't believe he will be able to answer my main question-----how could he forget in the span of seconds, when he arrived at the exit to the main street?

It is going to be really hard for him to convince me that he could innocently forget his child in a manner of seconds. If he was actively texting at the time, and looking at Whisper, then I will never accept that it was an innocent mistake.

For the sake of argument. He is completed distracted by texting Mrs X, and is in the middle of an exchange with her when he walks out of CFA.

He buckles Cooper in, gets in the front seat. He is thinking about what to say in reply. The act of unbuckling and buckling Cooper gets processed as having dropped Cooper off, because, reality is, his mind hasn't focused on Cooper much since 8:55, if not earlier.


He pulled out and didn't head left, because Cooper was at daycare, not that he was thinking about Cooper at all. And when he pulled up to the red light at the intersection, a chance to "reset," he instead pulled out his phone and replied to Mrs. X until the light turned green.

Less than a minute later he pulls in and parks. And once again, rather than registering anything around him, including Cooper, he checks his phone to see if Mrs X has replied, reaches over to grab his coffee and bag, and exits. To clock in and check to see if Mrs X has replied yet....

 

[katydid23]

For the sake of argument. He is completed distracted by texting Mrs X, and is in the middle of an exchange with her when he walks out of CFA.

He buckles Cooper in, gets in the front seat. He is thinking about what to say in reply. The act of unbuckling and buckling Cooper gets processed as having dropped Cooper off, because, reality is, his mind hasn't focused on Cooper much at all since 8:55, if not earlier.


He pulled out and didn't head left, because Cooper was at daycare, not that he was thinking about Cooper at all. And when he pulled up to the red light at the intersection, a chance to "reset," he instead pulled out his phone and replied to Mrs. X until the light turned green.

Less than a minute later he pulls in and parks. And once again, rather than registering anything around him, including Cooper, he checks his phone to see if Mrs X has replied, reaches over to grab his coffee and bag, and exits. To clock in and check to see if Mrs X has replied yet....

The bolded above would seem like CRIMINAL NEGLECT, to me. If the reason he 'forgot' was because he was distracted by sexting, then he was neglectful, with reckless disregard for his child's safety, imo. :cow:

 

[arkansasmimi]

I agree. I was expecting that to be a disaster. IMO, he came across as a young dude that happened to encounter RH, and made a bit of easy money to one news outlet. He didn't come across as particularly invested or concerned with being involved in the trial. I fully expected him to be one of those guys that wanted to have the sensational information. He really doesn't seem like it.

And the defense pointing out that he doesn't know how he acted on the phone, but didn't show any evidence of him having been upset on the phone. This witness was a surprisingly kind of bad moment for the defense and pretty good for the prosecution. IMO.

JMHO, the fact that the Def asked him about not watching the end of the video, to me gives pause and wonder .. as to what if anything is on the end of the video the Def was speaking of. Could be nothing, Could be something. Have to wait until the Def portion to see if anything more said. JMHO

 

[MsMarple]

I don't believe he will be able to answer my main question-----how could he forget in the span of seconds, when he arrived at the exit to the main street?

It is going to be really hard for him to convince me that he could innocently forget his child in a manner of seconds. If he was actively texting at the time, and looking at Whisper, then I will never accept that it was an innocent mistake.

Unfortunately I think Dr. Diamond will have all the answers. And I don't mean that he will convince me of Ross' innocence just that he's impressive on the stand. He's decent looking, affable and has a knack for explaining his theory in an easy to understand way. I've also noticed (JMOO) that over time he has moved the goalposts a tiny bit - the Jayde Poole trial left me scratching my head. Regardless, he consistenly convinces juries that anyone, even the best parent, can be fooled by misfirings in the amygdala and basal ganglia. Personally (again JMO) I feel like he's leaving out an important element - the position the child holds in the parent's internal list of priorities.

I don't doubt that Dr. Diamond is sincere and not just conning defense teams to lay out big fees for his testimony - he actually will agree on the stand that it's just a theory - and I think much of his science is sound. But... there really isn't a way to study it using the scientific method. He can't wire up a parent's head and send them off to forget their kid in a car and even if it was possible it would be unethical.

It's a lot to swallow that Dr. Diamond claims any of these:

A change in routine

or

A distraction

or

Stress

or

Lack of sleep

can cause a parent to believe they delivered their kid to daycare. It pretty much covers everything a typical parent experiences every day. It's amazing that my three kids made it to adulthood.

 

[katydid23]

What I'm saying is the whole trip into CFA - taking Cooper out of the car seat, carrying him in his arms, chatting with the employees, etc. registered in Ross' distracted brain that he actually took him to daycare rather than to CFA.

I have no idea if that's what happened in Ross' brain, but I admit, it's giving me some reasonable doubt....

except that Cooper was RIGHT THERE in the car in the Home Depot parking lot. That is the sticky point for me. It's not like a roomy car with a blind spot where the car seat was.

jmo

I can see what 'happened' in his brain was that he focused entirely upon his WHISPER program etc, and ignored the task at hand, which was to care for his son. You cannot treat your child like a bag of groceries, and accidentally leave them in the car all day, A child is something that you legally have to care for and protect in a reasonable manner. You cannot put them out of your mind with thoughts of other extraneous things. That is wanton disregard for their safety, imo.

 

[LinasK]

The finances should be interesting - the defense managed to get information about the two life insurance policies excluded but that wouldn't include other financial information. Personally I don't think the policies or even other financial troubles are directly related to Ross' actions but who knows. Apparently he had taken over the family finances just weeks before Cooper's death. I haven't seen anything about why he did though - it does sound like he and Leanna were bickering over money.

OTOH, msm reported that he was asking relatives to look into the payouts just days after Cooper died so maybe the money (27k) was important to him. It doesn't seem like it would go very far in Atlanta but it would be a nice chunk of seed money for his new business. Still, I don't see him killing Cooper for 27k.

In any case I doubt Ross will testify on his behalf. I'd really like to see him on the stand but Kilgore probably knows better than to let him speak...

I watch alot of Dateline, 48 Hours, and 20/20 and oftentimes Life Insurance is the sole motive for killing. $27,000 may not seem like enough for you, but for some people it is. (Oooh, and in terms of Life Insurance payouts, it needs to be an accident!)

 

[popsicle]

JMHO, the fact that the Def asked him about not watching the end of the video, to me gives pause and wonder .. as to what if anything is on the end of the video the Def was speaking of. Could be nothing, Could be something. Have to wait until the Def portion to see if anything more said. JMHO

We have his reaction at the scene, at the police station and while he was there just chilling with the guys... anything after that is too little too late imo

 

[Hope4More]

The bolded above would seem like CRIMINAL NEGLECT, to me. If the reason he 'forgot' was because he was distracted by sexting, then he was neglectful, with reckless disregard for his child's safety, imo. :cow:

We have agreed on that, I think, for quite a long while. If my timeline is accurate and RH was texting while in the car (at all) en route, much less at the intersection that might have cued him, imo his degree of culpability increases exponentially.

 

[katydid23]

Unfortunately I think Dr. Diamond will have all the answers. And I don't mean that he will convince me of Ross' innocence just that he's impressive on the stand. He's decent looking, affable and has a knack for explaining his theory in an easy to understand way. I've also noticed (JMOO) that over time he has moved the goalposts a tiny bit - the Jayde Poole trial left me scratching my head. Regardless, he consistenly convinces juries that anyone, even the best parent, can be fooled by misfirings in the amygdala and basal ganglia. Personally (again JMO) I feel like he's leaving out an important element - the position the child holds in the parent's internal list of priorities.

I don't doubt that Dr. Diamond is sincere and not just conning defense teams to lay out big fees for his testimony - he actually will agree on the stand that it's just a theory - and I think much of his science is sound. But... there really isn't a way to study it using the scientific method. He can't wire up a parent's head and send them off to forget their kid in a car and even if it was possible it would be unethical.

It's a lot to swallow that Dr. Diamond claims any of these:

A change in routine

or

A distraction

or

Stress

or

Lack of sleep

can cause a parent to believe they delivered their kid to daycare. It pretty much covers everything a typical parent experiences every day. It's amazing that my three kids made it to adulthood.

I totally agree with Dr Diamond that SOMETIMES, a good well intentioned parent can make a tragic mistake. I understand how lack of sleep, stress, overwork, can fool someone into false memories. With my second child , my husband was out of town for work when she was still a newborn. My Mom came to visit to help me. When she arrived early in the morning, I told her the baby was asleep and I had changed and fed her already at the 4 am feeding. TURNED OUT TO BE A FALSE MEMORY. She was sopping wet and I 'imagined' I had gotten up and changed her.


I totally believe in false memories.

But I don't want to classify this situation as that, just yet. I think this is much less of an innocent happening. I think this was more of a situation of the father giving his son such a low priority, that his sexting and such became a deadly distraction. He put him in the car seat, went back to the cell screen, and totally ignored the baby from then on. I see it as reckless disregard more than an innocent mistake.

 

[Inthedetails]

I can see what 'happened' in his brain was that he focused entirely upon his WHISPER program etc, and ignored the task at hand, which was to care for his son. You cannot treat your child like a bag of groceries, and accidentally leave them in the car all day, A child is something that you legally have to care for and protect in a reasonable manner. You cannot put them out of your mind with thoughts of other extraneous things. That is wanton disregard for their safety, imo.

Of course that is wanton disregard, no one in the world would disagree with that. The boy is dead because of that wanton disregard.

The question is whether he forgot because he's human and people make mistake, whether he forgot out of neglect, or whether he intentionally left the boy to die.

For the record, I think Ross did forget Cooper and it was out of neglect.

 

[katydid23]

Of course that is wanton disregard, no one in the world would disagree with that. The boy is dead because of that wanton disregard.

The question is whether he forgot because he's human and people make mistake, whether he forgot out of neglect, or whether he intentionally left the boy to die.

For the record, I think Ross did forget Cooper and it was out of neglect.

I agree. I don't think he consciously meant to harm Cooper. But he did a lot of things that were very harmful to him, because of his human flaws.

 

[GA_Peach]

For those interested in sleuthing ...

Here are the times of texts RH exchanged with one online gal (X) that AM.

8:55:19. RH to X. (Before entering CFA at 9AM).

9:12:54. X to RH.

9:15:15 . RH to X.

9:15:33. RH to X. "We both need escapes."

9:18:09. X to RH.

9:24:15. RH to X.
9:24:23. RH to X.
9:24:28. RH to X.

Enters Treehouse parking lot at 9:25 (plus change?)

When did RH put Cooper in his carseat, and where must he have been to send those last 3 texts?

Seeing these time stamps makes me believe more than ever that he texted while stopped at the light. It is feasible to make it from that light to the Tree House in one minute. IMO it's more than feasible; it's likely and probable.

Based on my knowledge of the area, including traffic patterns, there is nothing inconsistent with Ross leaving CFA at 9:19 and arriving at the TH at 9:25. Since the driving time from CFA to the TH is about 2-3 minutes, he must have caught the light. If he caught the red light at the intersection, the timing of those texts confirm that. Once he clears the intersection, the drive is less than 60 seconds. On top of that, the area past the intersection is not subject to congestion.

 

[perfectingpink]

When you are with your child, how in the world could one think about their shrinky dinky? Is a child only a show stopper for women?

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree. I don't think he consciously meant to harm Cooper. But he did a lot of things that were very harmful to him, because of his human flaws.

I think it was more than human flaws.

These are the choices, imo:

1. He forgot Cooper out of pure accident, human error.

2. He forgot Cooper out of neglect.

3. He intended to kill Cooper.

My thinking is #2.

Ross caused the conditions under which he forgot Cooper. He neglected his duties as the adult in charge of a child. He is fully responsible for the death.

jmo

 

[matou]

I totally agree with Dr Diamond that SOMETIMES, a good well intentioned parent can make a tragic mistake. I understand how lack of sleep, stress, overwork, can fool someone into false memories. With my second child , my husband was out of town for work when she was still a newborn. My Mom came to visit to help me. When she arrived early in the morning, I told her the baby was asleep and I had changed and fed her already at the 4 am feeding. TURNED OUT TO BE A FALSE MEMORY. She was sopping wet and I 'imagined' I had gotten up and changed her.


I totally believe in false memories.

But I don't want to classify this situation as that, just yet. I think this is much less of an innocent happening. I think this was more of a situation of the father giving his son such a low priority, that his sexting and such became a deadly distraction. He put him in the car seat, went back to the cell screen, and totally ignored the baby from then on. I see it as reckless disregard more than an innocent mistake.

You were dreaming that you did it. It was 4 am. This situation is understandable. His situation is not IMO.

 

[Hope4More]

Seeing these time stamps makes me believe more than ever that he texted while stopped at the light. It is feasible to make it from that light to the Tree House in one minute. IMO it's more than feasible; it's likely and probable.

Based on my knowledge of the area, including traffic patterns, there is nothing inconsistent with Ross leaving CFA at 9:19 and arriving at the TH at 9:25. Since the driving time from CFA to the TH is about 2-3 minutes, he must have caught the light. If he caught the red light at the intersection, the timing of those texts confirm that. Once he clears the intersection, the drive is less than 60 seconds. On top of that, the area past the intersection is not subject to congestion.

When you say"caught the light" you mean a red light? Lol. That explains my confusion about what you've said about times. Where i come from"caught the light" means a green light.