Trial - Ross Harris #9

[monkeypants]

I'll admit, I did not watch the early testimony because it would be too much for me to handle emotionally. Did he tell a co-worker that they had a great daddy and son breakfast day?? Or were you being facetious?

He never mentioned a thing to ANYONE...just took a long slow sip from his cfa cup :dramaqueen:

 

[monkeypants]

OT:
Hairspray gets out lipstick(Also removes ink!). Google for detailed instructions. (I've used it, it did work, sometimes took a few washes though.)

:tyou:

 

[gitana1]

But it does not matter if it was about children or pets in hot cars. The important part, imo, is that it was about the DANGERS of dying in a hot car---child or pet. So Ross had very recently seen the consequences of leaving a child or a pet in a hot car. And he even made the connection himself about what would happen to Cooper if he was left in a hot car. Hard to overlook that crazy coincidence.

If I had seen a video online about how fast a pet could die in a pool, unattended. And I commented on the video, about how much I'd hate it if my baby fell into a pool. And then days later, while having a Whisper conversation about needing a break from being a Mom, I 'forgot' about my baby, and he toddled outside and fell into the pool and drowned...would a jury have a problem with that? Or could I say that I just 'blanked' him out and forgot I was watching him...my bad, so sorry..

Bam.

Yes - I commented on this previously. And it is also significant that he has a dog. So why not associate it with his dog rather than his son?

Let's say I have an elderly grandmother and a young wife living in my home. I see a video warning of elderly people falling down the stairs and tells how to prevent it. I state, "Gee, I would hate my young wife to fall down the stairs like that!" and then, 5 days later, she does.

Now if he didn't have a dog, I could *maybe* see him trying to make it relate to something in his life. But, as I stated before, the video was made by a veterinarian NOT a pediatrician. So that leap is quite suspicious to me. imho.

And Bam. It's too suspicious to me. Rules out FBS, IMO. Oh and Ross didn't fail to take precautions after watching that video and a news report on FBS and the look back campaign. he stated in interrogation that he actually started looking back. Just not that day. What's the point of the program and education if the same mechanisms that can cause FBS can cause someone to forget their education about the dangers and the practices employed to prevent it? Not buying it.

Come in, gitana - you really think the state has established so firmly and convincingly that Ross planned and carried out Cooper's murder? To the exclusion of every other reasonable interpretation of the evidence?

No way. The State's evidence barely even raises the possibility it was a deliberate murder.

Well, frankly, I can;t say that. Because I didn't watch the trial. And it hasn't escaped my notice that some very intelligent people who have watched the trial, do not believe the state proved their case. I have my attitude about the case. So do others. I really can;t recall a case where opinion was that evenly divided. It's not like most think he's clearly guilty but a few rogue posters stubbornly refuse to accept logic. Far from it. So I suspect that it really comes down to what the evidence tells certain people when it comes to their own lives and experiences and thought processes and belief systems and attitudes about evidence and the law. I think both sides are well-informed, intelligent and have good bases for their differing opinions. And what that tells me is that it is highly unlikely that there will be a conviction for malice murder. I may personally believe the evidence proves malice murder but I'm on the fence as to whether it objectively did. And I thought the state proved their case, imperfectly though, in the casey anthony trial. I was wrong. Being in that courtroom and on the jury would undoubtedly give me a different, more definitive perspective.

 

[CapitalBat]

His coworkers said he spoke of cooper all the time, even showed them pics if he got a new shirt etc...but that morning when someone says hey Ross how ya doing? He doesn't say I'm fantastic...had a great daddy and son breakfast today!

This is a big hang-up for me as well.

A little too much TMI here but as someone who's had two brain tumors, two brain surgeries, and radiation, I have some memory issues myself. And I've met many more people who have suffered complicated and unusual changes to their memories as well. Adapting to these memory flaws was an essential, personal responsibility to stay safe. As is adapting to caring for a human child. You create safeguards and checks because you realize you might forget small details, like whether you took the pill already or whether or not your baby has had a BM in the past three days. But what you never forget is that *it's important to remember* SO when you can't remember, you check. (And if you can't check, you pay attention in the future or design a safeguard.)

Which brings me to - this was a huge fear of theirs and he didn't have a single system in place to prevent it? Side eye.

But I can probably understand that, human beings aren't perfect and we often think we don't need support systems we actually do. And I think Ross probably fits a personality profile of someone like that (arrogant) very well. So putting that question to the side...

Even if I believe he forgot Cooper during the short drive from CFA to work, and even if I believe they had no safeguards in place to prevent a hot car death... Cooper came up in Ross' conversation - directly or indirectly - well before 1pm. His coworkers asked Ross how he was; he supposedly loved to talk about Cooper, but didn't mention his out-of-the-ordinary Daddy-and-me breakfast? He talked about things including or affecting Cooper during the morning hours and not once did he think, "wait, did I drop him off this morning?" Remembering whether or not you performed a specific action is entirely different from remembering that you have a responsibility to your child/have to take your medicine daily.

I think there were verbal triggers at the very least, and a visual trigger in the CFA cup (assuming he had no personal stuff up at his desk, which I guess we have to assume without evidence to the contrary), to remind him "you had a responsibility to Cooper this morning." He doesn't claim to have a false memory of dropping Cooper off, rather he claims he entirely forgot a human life depended on him. I don't believe that.

I understand why some people feel the case for malice murder hasn't been proven, and I am looking forward to closing arguments to see if I can be swayed back to the fence, but as of yesterday, I think he's very guilty.

 

[gitana1]

Things that tip me toward the malice murder side of the fence:

Coopers parents have stated they were aware of the risk, it was their biggest fear, yet they did nothing to prevent it from happening. This does not make sense. It's like they stopped one step short from completing the problem solving process. Both of them are college grads iirc, worked in jobs that required problem solving, showed problem solving skills in other parts of their lives, so I can't reasonably believe that when it comes to leaving their child in the car they turned into the stupidest people on the planet and put absolutely no measures in place to prevent it from happening.

I've had similar to the pill problem and have then counted out pills on the counter, doing the math to see if there's one extra. I also often forget if my garage door has shut completely when I leave for work in the morning. Sometimes the routine image of it in my brain - and the fact that it's morning and I am not mentally as sharp as I am later in the day - makes it hard for me to remember correctly. If that's the situation I then drive around the block to drive by my house and check the door. And never once have I found the door open when I when back to check.

But Cooper's parents didn't do anything to solve the most scary problem they were aware of, and I can't find any reasonable explanation in defense of that.

We used to have a saying when I was growing up in the Pleistocene - "accidentally on purpose" - often applied to unplanned pregnancies. Having followed this case since the day it hit the news and WS, my gut tells me Cooper's death wasn't purely accidental but rather an accident on purpose.

Another thing that bothers me and I hate thinking about is the lunchtime light bulb drop off. If Cooper wasn't already dead, he was likely suffering greatly. I really can't get past that . I've yet to read a reasonable defense of that one.

Just my $0.02

Really appreciate the variety of discourse here. I would not want to be a juror on this case.

Ross stated he actually DID do something to prevent it from happening, after watching what appeared to be a news report about the look back campaign. He actually talked about FBS and the man whose son died who became an advocate, and that he began looking again in response to that recent news report. But suddenly he just forgot to be concerned? or use the technique?
Worse

 

[justkk]

I don't think those recordings make him seem suspicious or bizarre to most people who weren't already convinced he was guilty.

His behavior was exactly like every other parent who accidentally killed their child this way.

Respectfully - I completely disagree. His behavior was not like every other parent who has done this. And I think the majority here feel that his behavior in the videos WAS suspicious and bizarre.
JMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cardinal47]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

I understand exactly what you are saying. Happens to a lot of us. But the difference I see in your comparison is that right away you think "did I take the medicine" but something...maybe the glass or the bottle triggered you to think about it but you had no way to check unless you had an xray machine handy.

To me Ross had many triggers and he had the luxury of running back to that car and check to see if Cooper was there if it was an accident. He did nothing. Then getting into the same car with a dead child and not noticing he;s sitting inches from you. Just the presence of somebody being in that car would certainly jolt me into reality.


I will never believe that in that whole day he never once thought about what happened to Cooper.

 

[La Louve]

Ross stated he actually DID do something to prevent it from happening, after watching what appeared to be a news report about the look back campaign. He actually talked about FBS and the man whose son died who became an advocate, and that he began looking again in response to that recent news report. But suddenly he just forgot to be concerned? or use the technique?
Worse

Thanks Gitana, for correcting my memory!

:seeya:

 

[gitana1]

This is a big hang-up for me as well.

A little too much TMI here but as someone who's had two brain tumors, two brain surgeries, and radiation, I have some memory issues myself. And I've met many more people who have suffered complicated and unusual changes to their memories as well. Adapting to these memory flaws was an essential, personal responsibility to stay safe. As is adapting to caring for a human child. You create safeguards and checks because you realize you might forget small details, like whether you took the pill already or whether or not your baby has had a BM in the past three days. But what you never forget is that *it's important to remember* SO when you can't remember, you check. (And if you can't check, you pay attention in the future or design a safeguard.)

Which brings me to - this was a huge fear of theirs and he didn't have a single system in place to prevent it? Side eye.

But I can probably understand that, human beings aren't perfect and we often think we don't need support systems we actually do. And I think Ross probably fits a personality profile of someone like that (arrogant) very well. So putting that question to the side...

Even if I believe he forgot Cooper during the short drive from CFA to work, and even if I believe they had no safeguards in place to prevent a hot car death... Cooper came up in Ross' conversation - directly or indirectly - well before 1pm. His coworkers asked Ross how he was; he supposedly loved to talk about Cooper, but didn't mention his out-of-the-ordinary Daddy-and-me breakfast? He talked about things including or affecting Cooper during the morning hours and not once did he think, "wait, did I drop him off this morning?" Remembering whether or not you performed a specific action is entirely different from remembering that you have a responsibility to your child/have to take your medicine daily.

I think there were verbal triggers at the very least, and a visual trigger in the CFA cup (assuming he had no personal stuff up at his desk, which I guess we have to assume without evidence to the contrary), to remind him "you had a responsibility to Cooper this morning." He doesn't claim to have a false memory of dropping Cooper off, rather he claims he entirely forgot a human life depended on him. I don't believe that.

I understand why some people feel the case for malice murder hasn't been proven, and I am looking forward to closing arguments to see if I can be swayed back to the fence, but as of yesterday, I think he's very guilty.

Watching the police interrogation tape again is illuminating. First, I note how casually Ross talks about himself as he is being frisked. Sorry, I didn't hear or read about one of the other parents acting this way. He says he worked for the police department, calm, conversational tone, as a dispatcher. He then says his job is going "great". Enthusiastic tone. Then, "I like my job." And he is a guitar player, "I'm the lead guitar player at [unintelligible]." Casual, calm tone. Around minute 27.

[video=youtube;vOkKqENIBww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkKqENIBww[/video]

But it's at 1:23:15, where he starts talking about his knowledge of FBS and how to prevent it, the dangers, etc. To me, it is clear that he is trying to get the detectives to associate his case with the case he just saw on the news, trying to explain it away. Sort of like: "I'm a good, concerned dad. I would never do something like that. But there was this news report and it happens." The context right before he made these statements was he was asked how he thinks this happened and was asked to explain how it happened and he started talking about how going into CFA with his son was different 'I never go into CFA" and how he just failed to turn to daycare and his mind just made him keep going. That's when he brings up this other case and the vet video. I think like many criminals he is not that bright:

"I would never leave him in the car. I just watched news reports, there was a news report of a guy who did this, just like me. And now he's an advocate for when you park, you turn around and look again and I've been doing that because the worst fear of my..for me is to leave my son in a hot cart. And then recently I saw a vet on the internet who said even if you have your windows rolled down and regardless, I;m going to show you how hot it can get in the car, if you think you can just leave your pets in the car, roll your windows down down, 5 minutes, you can't do that. And I watched that and [unintelligible] it would be terrible if my son were in the car, and I would hate that. When I was working for Cumberland Police, we had a canine officer leave his dog in the car, for 10 minutes...[his tone here is, to me, one used when someone is explaining to someone, step, by step, exactly how something simple works] um and dog died of heat exhaustion immediately upon [unintelligible] black suburban. Um, so that happened. [Explaining how this occurs]. I;m aware. I just can't believe... [incredulous tone. Wonderment. Not grief, anger or shock]."

http://lawnewz.com/video/watch-justin-ross-harris-police-interview-played-in-court/

 

[Cardinal47]

He actually did have a strong support base, including family and friends.

But not one of them sat behind him in court. I find that most unusual. Most families support their family member no matter how bad it is. Point of discussion was Travis Alexander family. The sacrafices they made to support dead Travis. Even Jody's family made the trek to the courthouse.

I think the main thing they wanted to show with the tape was Leanna saying that leaving Cooper in the car was her biggest fear and that SHE AND ROSS HAD DISCUSSED IT (more than once, I think). The point being that he should have taken extra steps to make sure that didn't happen, and also, that his interest in that and the pet video showed the possibility that the idea was planted in his mind. That was what I took from them using the tape in rebuttal...JMO

If I was the mother and that worried I would have called day care each and every day to make sure he had arrived. If she took him then Ross should have called. Easy as that to check on a little one.

Some things such as forgetting if you just took your meds are normal. I do that at least twice a week. I've never forgotten how to take my medication, however. I've forgotten to pay bills and I've left my wallet behind in the grocery store. ‎I've also put peanut butter in the fridge and have no recollection of ever doing it. Pretty sure I've never put my baby in a fridge, though.

Medication, peanut butter & bills aren't babies. I've never left my baby behind in the grocery store. Have you? I never forgot to feed my toddler but many, many times I forget to eat.

Human are unique in that we have memory and even though we are prone to forgetting things, we also come equipped with motherboard containing vast data banks known as the subconscious and unconscious. This makes it possible (even likely) to forget certain things but never forget others.

We don't remember if we just took OUR meds but we're pretty good about remembering to give our kids THEIR meds. We don't *forget* to go to work every day, even though it's as routine as taking our daily meds. I might leave my purse in a hot car for seven hours in June but I'd never leave my baby in one. I OFTEN forget where I put my carkeys (it's quite pathological) but I've never misplaced my children. Have you ever misplaced your child or left them in a hot car for seven hours?‎
‎

I wish you were on that jury. You explain thing so well.

I think if the trial was closer to home ; He would have more attendees.

Plus people have to pay bills and work during his court hours.

But I'm sure they send him letters or give him money for jail snacks or whatever.

He certainly looks like he has not missed too many meals in jail. Amazing his appetite. I would think Coopers death would have brought him to his knees.

 

[MsMarple]

Watching the police interrogation tape again is illuminating. First, I note how casually Ross talks about himself as he is being frisked. Sorry, I didn't hear or read about one of the other parents acting this way. He says he worked for the police department, calm, conversational tone, as a dispatcher. He then says his job is going "great". Enthusiastic tone. Then, "I like my job." And he is a guitar player, "I'm the lead guitar player at [unintelligible]." Casual, calm tone. Around minute 27.

[video=youtube;vOkKqENIBww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkKqENIBww[/video]

But it's at 1:23:15, where he starts talking about his knowledge of FBS and how to prevent it, the dangers, etc. To me, it is clear that he is trying to get the detectives to associate his case with the case he just saw on the news, trying to explain it away. Sort of like: "I'm a good, concerned dad. I would never do something like that. But there was this news report and it happens." The context right before he made these statements was he was asked how he thinks this happened and was asked to explain how it happened and he started talking about how going into CFA with his son was different 'I never go into CFA" and how he just failed to turn to daycare and his mind just made him keep going. That's when he brings up this other case and the vet video. I think like many criminals he is not that bright:

"I would never leave him in the car. I just watched news reports, there was a news report of a guy who did this, just like me. And now he's an advocate for when you park, you turn around and look again and I've been doing that because the worst fear of my..for me is to leave my son in a hot cart. And then recently I saw a vet on the internet who said even if you have your windows rolled down and regardless, I;m going to show you how hot it can get in the car, if you think you can just leave your pets in the car, roll your windows down down, 5 minutes, you can't do that. And I watched that and [unintelligible] it would be terrible if my son were in the car, and I would hate that. When I was working for Cumberland Police, we had a canine officer leave his dog in the car, for 10 minutes...[his tone here is, to me, one used when someone is explaining to someone, step, by step, exactly how something simple works] um and dog died of heat exhaustion immediately upon [unintelligible] black suburban. Um, so that happened. [Explaining how this occurs]. I;m aware. I just can't believe... [incredulous tone. Wonderment. Not grief, anger or shock]."

http://lawnewz.com/video/watch-justin-ross-harris-police-interview-played-in-court/

Thanks, gitana!

BTW, Stoddard used the unfortunate word "research" in the sw but I can easily see why he got the impression that Ross had researched hot car deaths and how hot it got inside, based on these statements. If Stoddard had just said Ross "talked about" or "told me about" instead of using researched I think most people would agree with him. It does sound like Ross invested a lot of time into the subject of hot car deaths. It's hard not to be suspicious.

 

[GA_Peach]

BBM - I take a medication every morning, and it occasionally happens that right after I have taken the medication, I cannot remember whether I just took it or not. I mean, I can be standing there with the prescription bottle in my hand and a glass of water and I can literally not remember if I just took the medicine 30 seconds ago.

IMO this happens because I have taken this medication every morning for the last 15 years. It is so rote and routine, that I do it without consciously paying attention to doing it. When trying to recall, it is pointless to try to trace my steps back and recreate what I just did - I have so many memories/images in my head of taking the medicine, it would be impossible to know whether I was thinking of the medication I just took or just replaying in my head the action I've taken thousands of times. I have to ask my husband if I just took the medicine or if I only got the prescription bottle out and then got distracted.

But you do remember that you were trying to take your medicine. You didn't forget that you were interacting with your medicine. Ross completely forgot that he just had breakfast with Cooper. The pills that were in front of you were a huge CUE that you were in the process of taking your medicine. With Ross, the CFA building, his cup, LAA, his text about family life, and his increased temperature from buckling Cooper into the car were all cues that Ross was just with Cooper. However, he completely "forgot" that.

 

[Cardinal47]

Can somebody remind me of the schedule for tomorrow. I know the judge has a few things to go over with the attorneys. Then I think the State goes first, then the Defense and then a brief rebuttal by State then the charging the jury by the Judge then deliberations. Is that the way it will go?

In the beginning wasn't the Judge advising the jury it might be til Thanksgiving.

 

[jennapuppy]

Ugh sorry for the OT but mine did the same with a bright pink on tan carpet. Pm me if you know how to remove

I totally agree with you on what's true friends would say under oath, imo Ross has acquaintances that didn't do him any favors

The testimony of RH's friends reminded me of my ex-BIL, who is a narcissist/sociopath. He is a successful engineer for a large corporation, and was known as a larger-than-life man with many friends, a devout church-goer and a family man who dearly loved his wife and children. What no one realized at the time was that the only person he is really capable of loving is himself and when he decided he wanted to be free to pursue his sexual fantasies, he walked away from the family he "loved" and barely has a relationship with his children. He "loved" them as long as they met his needs. When the novelty wore off, he moved on.

I think this is what Ross wanted to do, but there was one thing holding him back - LeAnna. She didn't want Cooper to grow up in a broken home as she had, and she was going to do everything she could to fight for her marriage. She had already done that when she caught Ross viewing *advertiser censored*, and she most certainly would do it if Ross told her that he wanted a divorce. LeAnna would have insisted that she and Ross discuss this with their church groups and ask for their guidance and prayers, as well as seek marital counseling, and I think Ross didn't want to once again be forced to bare his soul and endure the feelings of humiliation and judgment. As a narcissist, he would not let her shame him again. Once Cooper was deceased, he would be able to approach the subject of divorce again under the guise of a bereaved parent who'd drifted apart from his spouse and, if he were really lucky, she would be so angry at him that she would initiate the divorce and he could be the victim.

All of the above is JMO. I am not a psychologist and I am in no way trying to diagnose Ross. I am also aware that no mental-health professional has testified to his mental state. I realize that he triggers a personal bias in me and, for that reason, I would probably not make a very objective juror in this case.

This is a rough crowd (which is why I usually just lurk), and won't be surprised if I'm chastised for having this opinion, but for me it explains why a "loving" father would choose fillicide over divorce. Although I believe there are legitimate instances of FBS, I don't think this is one.

JMO

 

[JudyBolton]

gitana - his mannerisms and his over-explaining are red flags to me. I am a teacher and I guess over the years I've become ultra sensitive to tip-offs that a student is lying to me. One of those is over-explaining, too much detail, & irrelevant information.

I believe LE officers do that, too, but of course under much different circumstances. They have a "hinky meter" that goes off if something is just not right. I believe that happened with JRH and then other pieces of information began to pile up.

Another poster (sorry, I forgot who) said that IF JRH is innocent and this all just happened - he is one of the unluckiest people on the face of the earth. For that many things to converge on him all at once in a perfect storm...it just goes beyond what I can comfortably accept. But, that's just me!

 

[GA_Peach]

I don't think Brewer said any of those things would have been a trigger or should have been a trigger. He said they could have been a trigger - he also explained how none of those things would have been an effective trigger because in Ross' mind, Cooper was at day care.

Dr. Brewer did say that those things would be cues (you can start listening a little after 2:40:00 in the Day 21 Morning Session at http://www.wildabouttrial.com/trial_videos/justin-ross-harris-trial-archive/ ). He also did not say that those things would not have been effective cues. He said that he cannot draw any conclusions about how effective the cues may or may not have been. He did, however, state that they were cues.

CB: Would that be a cue?
Dr. Brewer: Yes, that would be a cue.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Leanna did ask him if he got to work only minutes after he got to work.

So he should have visually remember taking Cooper to school just minutes before getting to work.

 

[EquallyDivided]

But you do remember that you were trying to take your medicine. You don't forget that you were interacting with your medicine. Ross completely forgot that he just had breakfast with Cooper. The pills that were in front of you were a huge CUE that you were in the process of taking your medicine. With Ross, the CFA building, his cup, LAA, his text about family life, and his increased temperature from buckling Cooper into the car were all cues that Ross was just with Cooper. However, he completely "forgot" that.

I'm a tad unhealthy, nowhere near as unhealthy as RH. I definitely remember they physical maneuvering of scrunching into weird positions to get my kids in their carseats.

Back then, I was lean and fit. I would still have had an elevated heart rate and sweating - especially in June months, while living in TX. I now live 30 minutes from where all of this took place. Atlanta is humid as heck. In the summer, it can be a struggle to even breathe.

I have this vision of RH, heart beating, sweating in his striped Polo - 30 to 40 seconds later nonchalantly passing up the turn for Cooper's daycare. His "cue" was the physical distress his body was still experiencing while "forgetting" his child was in the backseat. At that point, he didn't need a shoe in the backseat to tell him his baby was back there. His whole body was still yelling about it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[monkeypants]

Can somebody remind me of the schedule for tomorrow. I know the judge has a few things to go over with the attorneys. Then I think the State goes first, then the Defense and then a brief rebuttal by State then the charging the jury by the Judge then deliberations. Is that the way it will go?

In the beginning wasn't the Judge advising the jury it might be til Thanksgiving.

830am start time. Each side has 2 hours to close.

 

[minor4th]

Dr. Brewer did say that those things would be cues (you can start listening a little after 2:40:00 in the Day 21 Morning Session at http://www.wildabouttrial.com/trial_videos/justin-ross-harris-trial-archive/ ). He also did not say that those things would not have been effective cues. He said that he cannot draw any conclusions about how effective the cues may or may not have been. He did, however, state that they were cues.

CB: Would that be a cue?
Dr. Brewer: Yes, that would be a cue.

During direct or maybe re-direct he said he did not see anything of what he knew of Ross' entire day that would have served as an effective, direct memory cue because Ross believed he had taken Cooper to day care. He didn't know he forgot! So all the indirect cues like pictures on his desk, email from day care, talking about Cooper ...those are all things that are there whether or not he took Cooper to day care, so they are not going to alert him that he forgot. There were no direct cues to signal that something wasn't right - like the day care calling and asking why Cooper wasn't there, or seeing or hearing Cooper at lunch time when he opened the door.